DAlter01

If read in context with my prior post it will make sense. I tied it to the explanations/narrative in my prior posts. Sorry you don't like it that way. The program you mentioned "Run Program 'Casita Lights Off Execution' (Then Path) " is what I describe as paragraph 5. Good luck

Without the narative it is hard for someone to follow along as the "why" is important. But, here are the four programs: This is Paragraph 1 program If 'CASITA / Mot - Casita On - Inst' Status is On And From 7:00:00AM For 14 hours Then $Casita_State_Occupancy_Variable = 1 Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This is the paragraph 2 program If $Casita_State_Occupancy_Variable is 1 Then Set 'CASITA / Casita Kitchen Downlights' On Set 'CASITA / Casita Living Rm Downlights' On Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This is the paragraph 4 program If 'CASITA / Mot - Casita On - Inst' Status is Off Or 'CASITA / Mot - Casita On - Inst' Status is On Then Run Program 'Casita Lights Off Execution' (Then Path) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This is the paragraph 5 program If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then Wait 1 hour and 30 minutes $Casita_State_Occupancy_Variable = 0 Set 'Z-Automation Scenes / Casita Lights Off' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') I use a scene to turn the lights off so that I can have it turn off slowly so that the occupants are not left in the dark if there is an unintended turn-off. They have time to retrigger the motion if they start to see the lights starting to fade out.

I figured out a way to resolve the 3% increment on the dim/brighten in the ISY. It was very simple. In the program when it sees a button press to brighten or dim a scene, I just repeat the "then" statement to brigthen or dim multiple times. So, for instance, if I want 12 percent increments, I just repeat the "then" command 4 times. It works well this way. I left this feature on my system for a while but ultimately decided to delete it. With it, I needed my KP's to be 8 button KP's with a button for brightening and a button for dimming. However, I prefer a simpler interface with 6 button KP's so I decided to eliminate that bit of code. I used a variable to know which scene I was currently in and the brighten or dim button would then brighten or dim the scene that I was currently in. Realistically, I found I didn't use the brigthen/dim feature. But, I tested it a bunch and it worked well and it is there for someone else that has the need.

I've resolved my programming problems I had with the MSII acting as a motion on/motion off. The MSII is installed in the living room of my guest casita. The issues I had were: 1. Short internal time-out period of +/- 40 minutes. 2. Sensor turning on the lights when the occupant wants the lights off. The solutions I came up with are: 1. A program is created that during defined hours, in my case 7 am to 9 pm, if the MSII senses motion, it sets a state variable called Casita Occupancy State Variable (COSV) to 1. 2. A program that If the COSV equals 1 then the lights are turned on. The normal state of the COSV is 0 (unoccupied) and will be set as shown below. 3. If the occupant turns off the wall dimmer switch, it will turn off the controlled lights but turning off the wall dimmer switch will not change the COSV value. Since the COSV remains it its same state of 1 (occupied) it cannot then turn the lights on again as long as it remains in its occupied state. 4. A trigger program called Casita Lights Off Trigger is run each time the MSII turns on or turns off (changes state). When triggered, this trigger program runs a program called Casita Lights Off Execution. 5. The Casita Lights Off Excution program doesn't have an "if" statement, the "then" clause is merely a clause to wait 90 minutes and then turn off the Casita lights. When it turns the lights off (even if the lights were previously manually turned off by the occupant), there is a second line that changes the value of the COSV variable to 0. At 0, the state variable can then turn on the lights when motion is again sensed under paragraph 1 above. The idea of this set of programs is that each time there is a change of state in the MSII (paragraph 4) the 90 minute interval in paragraph 5 is reset to 90 minutes. In paragraph 4, we don't care if the change of state is an "on" command or and "off" command as I am just looking for the change to start the trigger. If Pargraph 4 was set to only start the timer on with "on" commands, if motion was constant then the timer in paragraph 5 would expire at 90 minutes despite there being constant motion in the Casita. If Pargraph 4 was set to start the timer with only "off" commands, the timer would not reset if the MSII recorded a new "on" event. With these programs once the casita is vacant for 90 minutes then lights will go off and the COSV variable will be reset to 0 which will allow the lights to be turned on again when new motion is detected. If an occupant were to remain in the casita for an extended period of time and wanted the lights to stay on, or off, this set of programs would not defeat the occupants intent as long as the MSII sees motion once every 90 minutes. Important to this process to work successfully is a short internal timeout setting on the MSII so that is keeps sending change in state events under paragraph 4 to keep resetting the 90 minute timer in paragraph 5. I have my MSII set for a 30 second internal timout interval. I found the programs had issue when I had a long internal timeout interval in the MSII. As described above, the system is working as intended for several weeks so I think most of the bugs have been worked out of the logic. I hope this can help someone else facing a set of similar challenges. Good Luck!

Thank you both. I'll program it the best I know how and see if i can get it working reliably. On the surface, it would seem the logic will work fine. The MSII in my application is USB powered so no reason for me to worry about battery issues. I'll set it for a 10 minute time-out on the MSII and a 100 minute time-out on the variable in the ISY. Therefore, it should never turn off within 90 minutes of seeing motion. I will set the MSII to only run ON commands just to save on unnecessary ISY traffic.

HABit, I believe I understand, and it is a creative solution. I do understand that the MSII will not send additional retrigger ON commands if it is already in its own internal timer interval. My issue is the maximum internal timer interval of the MSII is about 45 minutes which is too short for my purpose. If I'm reading your post correctly, I set the ISY variable to change from a triggered value to a non triggered value at my desired 90 minute interval from an MSII ON command. And, I leave the MSII internal timer at a shorter interval (45 minutes or something shorter). And, use the MSII ON command to reset the ISY varaible timer, sometimes redundantly. And, of course, use the ISY for the OFF command once the variable changes to its non triggered value and ignore any OFF commands from the MSII. In my application, I will not do the warning with the partial dimming at the start of the off sequence but I will use a long timeframe for the off command so that the lights slowly dim until they reach zero unless the MSII (and therefore the ISY program) is retriggered ON. I may have missed or misunderstood a nuance of your solution so when convenient, please do send over a snipet of code. Once recdeived I'll play around with it and report back on this forum for the benefit of all. Thanks again.

HABit, I've been noodling around how to create a timer within the ISY to use a MSII as you describe above but have not come up with a way to do what you seem to have accomplished. Would you mind pointing me in a direction of how to do that or cut and paste a code section? I'm frustrated with the MSII internal timer and your solution will work magic to my problem....if I can figure out how to get the ISY to work as a resetable timer. Thanks

Thank you Larryllix, HA is only limited by ones imagination. Your set up has opened my eyes to some new ideas!!

So you call out all of the individiual devices you are manipulating within the program "then/else" section with essentially no use of scenes? I've been using the program to turn on/off scenes and hadn't thought of defining all of the individual devices in the program. Or, are you defining a percentage level to turn on the scene in the "then/else" section of the program. If that were possible (I haven't checked yet) I can see that being a fairly powerful option.

I wrote a nice piece of code using variables to make a brighten/dim button on my keypads. It would brighten/dim any of my general scenes by knowing which scene to brighten or dim. However, it seems the default brighten/dim command in the ISY only moves the percentage by 3%. Since there is time required between button presses, the 3% increment makes the use of the feature somewhat useless. Is there a way to change the movement on each command that it is more like 10 or 20% with each button press? They are big 75 device scenes so having 5-6 identical scenes at different on percentages isn't really a viable option.

Uh oh, not looking good folks. So I need 90 dimmers for my install. I just got confirmation they are shipping me 24. What in the world am I going to do with 24 dimmers when I need 90. Let me think.....return them? I'll call them on Monday to find out what the deal is but 24 stinking dimmers. That is a joke. **** Update, Smarthome broke the order into multiple shipments for some reason. AND, it appears they have shipped everything ordered so I retract my prior comments of concern. It seems they did me right.

We didn't know how good we had it when Joe owned the company. Yes, there were plenty of mistakes but there was at least a vision moving things forward. There might have been two steps forward, one step to the side, one step back, stand in place and do circles for a while, and then two steps forward again. But, in the end after all that movement, there was "progress" to keep things moving on a path that created a viable technology and company. Now, as you suggest, it seems to just be adrift. No discernable movement attributable to forethought, managment and, ......wait for it........leadership.

Yesterday I elected to choose insteon for lighting at my new house and ordered a large quantity of 6 buttons, dimmers, etc. Of course they were out of Lamplincs. I will know soon another indicator of the extent of the flawed logic at the miss-named company "Smartlabs", where the word Smart should be removed from the sign over the door. Will they throttle my order back and partial ship it despite still having product on their shelves? It will not surprise me and I'll comment plenty if that happens.... And, probably send back the partial shipment and spend 4X on my second choice which is Lutron. I feel like I'm gambling by investing money and time in an Insteon based HA lighting system. Some gambles pay off, some don't. I figure if I get the system fully purchased with a 5-10 percent reserve stock of replacement parts I'll have a system with a 10+ year usable lifespan no matter what happens to Smartlabs once my new system is built out. A 10 year system life is reasonable given the low cost of an Insteon based system. Anything beyond that is a gift. I'll let the forum know if my large order gets fulfilled.

Michel, glad to hear UD is doing well. Having contracts to do work must be a refreshing approach by the other parties UD is working with versus the non-recognition UD seems to get from Insteon. This, despite UD being helpful to their business model. Maybe Insteon doesn't "get it" that UD isn't a competitor but is a facilitator to their tech. My last house would not have scaled up from 15 Insteon devices to 180 Insteon devices had it not been for they ISY. While one house doesn't move the needle for Insteon, times that by 1,000-10,000 houses/businesses in similar situations and it is definently signficant. Hopefully your statement of UD possibly not supporting the new PLM in a timely manner is just "talk" out of understandable frustration. There will be a lot of people that will have less need for Insteon without the ISY and, similarly, without Insteon, to a degree there will be less need for UD's products without Insteon. Bigger opportunities may dictate that direction for UD but it will be a dark period within the Insteon community.

And, the email said they will have "some" in stock in late January/early February. I interpreted that to mean they are not going to have a bunch of them and will likely sell out farily quickly.

I got some feedback from Smarthome this morning. They are discontinuing light almond for their dimmers/switches. While not discussed, I suppose that may means they will also discontinue ivory. They will support the color change kits for the switches. I was told receptacles will be in white only but they do still have some light almond receptacle dimmers. White devices are expected to be back in stock late January or early February.

Simplextech, it appears the RadioRA2 local controls (dimmers, switches) and repeaters are compatible with a Homeworks QS system such that if/when someone found themselves (or a subsequent owner) wanted to convert to Homeworks, the equipment would still be usable. Am I interpreting what I am reading correctly with that statement?

What out there has given any impression that their intentions are to take away the PLM? It's like people jump to the most outrageous of thoughts and run with it. Yes, good point. Just idle gossip that isn't good for anyone. Thank you for clarifying their long history of providing opportunities for others to integrate with their hardware. And, I also started with their software and just couldn't get it to reliably do what I wanted. Then a friend had an old ISY that he wasn't using and gave it to me to play with. With that, the seas parted, the heavens opened up, and Insteon bacame a marvelous thing for me to work with, ....once I had an ISY.

The thought of that would send shiver's down the spine of a lot of people. But, that type of stuff does happen. I haven't tried their app since the first generation HUB, what a catastrophe that was. That's fine if they want to get into the software business with an app. But, the reason they have people that buy a bunch of their product is because of the ISY and probably other control systems. It isn't because of their software and will never be. If they want to sell hardware, they will kill their business model if they take away the PLM.

With Bumpershoot posting the new FCC filing, that doesn't sound like a company "winding" down. Maybe, as some have suggested, they are preparing for a relaunch. I will admit the Inteson devices function very well for the price. I've tried the Lutron and some Z-wave switches and Insteon is the clear leader with their dimmers/switches. Remembering the pre-set on level, fast response, a true rocker switch, excellent tactile feel, good looks (opinions may vary), its hard to move away from the Insteon dimmers. Do I pay the price financially and probably in complexity by having a Lutron system that is 100% reliable and I know will be around 10 years from now or do I roll the dice on Insteon staying around for the next 10 years and having a combination Insteon/Z-wave system. As Asbril has pointed out, there are other options as well but I don't think I can put more variables inside my tiny brain and keep my sanity.

Asbril, if Z-wave was fairly fast it would make my life pretty easy. Maybe I should get a few components and check it out again. My history with Z-wave for lighting is going on 10 years ago. Things have hopefully evolved for the better. I know there is Z-wave Plus. Maybe that helped the speed and the scene/group commands. And, maybe the lZ-wave switch gear I selected 10 years ago to sample wasn't the best. Do you have any devices that are not 100% reliable to a on/off command or that phantom on? How big are some of your group scenes. Do you have 50-75 devices in your lighitng groups that need to respond together and do within 1-2 seconds?

Great info, thank you!

Simplextech, Brilliant on putting in two systems and having them tied together. I think I am getting somewhere. I don't mind the $650 class. I do mind the $210 dimmers, $600 keypads, etc. But, if able to go with Caseta or RA2 Select or finding a way to get wholesle price on the full RA2, there may be a reasonably priced option. But if I read your post correctly, I can have two Caseta/RA2 Select systems and they will essentially operate as "one" under the overall control of an ISY or some other control mechanism similar to how Insteon devices would work? Does the ISY need a Polisy to make the link to the Lutron system(s)? I looked at the chart you sent and for function, I think the Caseta or RA2 Select offers sufficient capability for my needs. I could use the ISY as the if/then/else controller for the logic needs. This, assumes, that Caseta and RA2 Select doesn't allow me to have the abilty to have programmed logic. Is that a true assumption on not having much logic capabilities in Caseta and RA2 select? Also, if do the companion switches/dimmers count toward the device limit or just the load device?

Thanks Mr Bill. If Lutron, with companion switches, I'd have about 150 devices and that pretty much rules out Caseta. I'm not sure about the Caseta Pro, that's the first I've heard of a "Pro" line. RadioRA may also work as it has a higher device number capability. Although, I think it is limited on the number of repeaters and its a big house. More research is in my future to figure all of that out. I agree with Z-wave. Too much effort to put in a system to have the lag and popcorn effect for lighting. I would forever want to figure out how to fix that. My prior house was also all Insteon and was pretty happy with it. I had some Z-wave door locks, a nice Z-wave fan controller, and a Z-wave plug in switch. They all worked reliably but I made a game of guessing how long it would take for the Z-wave devices to respond to the command. I didn't mind it with the items they controlled but it would not have been acceptable for lighting. I just went to the Smarthome site earlier this morning. Guess how many wall dimmers and receptacles they had available for me to buy...... Zero. That's right. The backbone of any system and they don't have any. Wow. They had receptacles in white but with this new house I need Light Almond. I've heard they are thinning out their SKU's but not having switches and receptacles, hmm.... If it were my company, when I run out, rather than cause concern in my customer's mind, I would put up a reponse that said (Due to COVID 19 or Due to unusually high demand, we are temporarily running low on this item. We have orders in production and expect to have new supply within X days/weeks. We appoligize for this inconvenience but rest assured the company is healthy and we are doing everything we can to restock our inventory during this unusual period") But, no, they only tell you they are out of stock of this item and many others. It lets the mind make assumptions.....

Oberkc, that is a low bar, but, yes I suppose it shows the patient has a pulse. If they do intend to stick around, it sure isn't helping them by being so quiet. I'm sure I'm not the only person hesitent to buy many, many thousands of dollars on equipment on Insteon because of their current business decisions.