DAlter01

Sounds like it is time for a new WiFi access point or a new microwave. One of those components isn't working correctly if you are having an interferance problem, is my guess. One can just as easily have a microwave that is having a problem and throwing out a bunch of noise on the 2.4 GHz frequency as with the 434 MHz. So, no real difference there. 2.4 GHz has plenty of range and penetrates walls very good. Maybe not as good as 434 MHz but if 2.4 GHz gives 100% reliable coverage to the stated specs, how much better does one need to be than 100% coverage to the stated specs? If it works realiably as intended that is all that is needed. There is no reason to fault it for not having something that isn't any better in performance to the stated specs. My guess is using the 434 MHz caused some other tradeoffs and in sum, they decided that the 2.4 GHz was the right solution. I don't have much experience with Lutron but have been nothing but impressed, who am I to question their decisions. Insteon, well, I've got some opinions on how they could do better, but I digress.

I second that opinion. I wouldn't touch Insteon right now and I would not use the Nokia line for a whole home install even if the product became "instantly" in stock. I'd want to see that it was successful and accepted by the marketplace, stock was easily available, and of course, there would need to be a way to integrate it which is a question without an answer right now. From what I've seen of the Ra3 product line and Lutron's history, I'd wait on it and then spend the extra money and go with Ra3 and know that I had a system with a long product life cycle, would be supported by a manufacturer that will be in business, and is a recognized name by an eventual home buyer (assuming some resale consideration is considered).

The resume says he worked there until 2020. Soooo, who is running that sh... show now? Anyone.....Anyone?

I believe Ra3 should also be a DIY solution as long as you take a class to learn how to actually set up a system properly per Lutron specs. But, anyone can take the class.

If the EMP hits, manual light switches will not work nor will your car. Both will be out of "fuel". The electricity grid will go down, for a long time, and the gas pumps will not work (no electricity and the pump's circuit boards will be fried). Soooooo, might as well enjoy the tech up until the point in time that the EMP pulse hits, if it hits.

These shortages have got to end sometime..... 2023 maybe? I'm needing to put new clay roof tiles on my house, quote was roughly 22 weeks......

Yes you need a PLM, but the USB modems are usually available in Ebay for a fair price. And, I do expect that at some point Insteon will be selling product again.....then again, I didn't think they would be suffering on product availablity for this long so what do I know. If you decide to go Insteon, get a back-up PLM since that part is the one that isn't replaceable by some other protocol. But if your implementation isn't until mid 2022, my guess is Ra3 is going to be a fantastic solution, likely supported by the Polisy by then, and available in any quantities you may need. It is Lutron so it should work well. Nearly every product they produce functions well and is supported.

Merry Christmas!!! and looking forward to a great 2022!

That insight was one of the secrets of my success in business. I paid vendors weekly. When we needed something we were always at the front of the line with vendors in getting our needs met. We dealt with some outfits that took 60-90 days to pay and only dealt with them if/when we had the time. Since it seems Insteon has a history of slow pay, there really isn't any suprise they are not getting any components right now. You reap what you sow.

Well, I guess that ends that discussion. What do we talk/complain about next?

Well said.

Close: #1 is the ISY software on the i994 which is UDI's older but still manufactured box. This is the hardware I currently run and am extremly satisfied with it. #2 is the ISY software on UDI's new box which is called Polisy. I hear great things about it but haven't used it. ISY is not 100% fully featured on the Polisy but it is very close to that. The Polisy box opens up the ISY software to integrate with over 100 other ecosystems using another software program called Polyglot. #3 I suppose one could say Polyglot can be run on other systems such as Rasberry Pi, etc. but what would be the point. If you want to run ISY (this is the tool you want to use for home automation) then go with the older box, i994, or wait a few months and ge the Polisy and run the ISY on it. These boxes are designed and supported by UDI which created the ISY program. The support difference will be signficant.

Yep, my poor use of language but it illustrates the need for the 30k foot overview. Many on these forums, like I did, omit the reference to the i994 when talking about their ISY program when they don't expand on which platform it is running on. What I could have said was there is a difference between running "ISY on Polisy" and "running ISY from your i994 on your Polisy". But, it seems in some of the forums I read when people discuss running the ISY on the i994 to their Polisy, they omit the part about the i994. You mention not knowing what the difference is. Unless I'm wrong, ithe ISY on Polisy is not yet, or only recently fully feaured, such as full Z-wave support. There are a few other items in addition that ISY on Polisy does not yet have in comparison to ISY on the i994, or that is what I believe I have read.

@lilyoyo1 I here what you are saying. The dummies comment was a little self defeating humor and was not meaning that UDI should be trying to market their product to average Joe homeowner. I can handle most of the technical stuff but I hadn't read an overview of how the parts and software all fit together. And, in my view, even a very technical person that was looking at the UDI ecosystem from their website for the first time would have a tough time figuring out what parts and pieces were needed and how they related to build a functioning system and what the system could do. They would essentially have to buy it and use it to learn the "big picture". That, in my view, isn't how to peak the interest of the technically sufficient buyer pool they are likely targeting. I want a full rich automation system and will spend the time and money to make it work. I've had ISY systems for many years and have hundreds of functioning programs. Some of these are, in my view, fairly complex. I've reviewed the UDI webpage more than a few times and 've read hundreds of posts on Polisy, Polyglots, nodeserves, Rasberry Pi, etc. and yet I did not have clarity on the big picture of the next generation UDI ecosystem until today. After all of that time and effort, for this potential buyer to not understand the big picture prior to today makes me think there is something missing in the message. Or, I am just a little slower than most. The thing I thought was missing was the 30k foot overview to understand how the terms related to each other. And, as it turns out, that was the case for me. With just a few paragraphs from @dbussand a little more detail from @MrBilland @bpwwer, I believe I understand the big picture. You mention the time and effort to write up a summary of every little detail in an evolving environement, it being costly, etc. That is my point, that is what exists today, a lot of details and posts. In an attempt to learn the big picture I kept ending up back at the UDI wiki which is a mountain of details, which are hard to understand without understading the big picture. What is lacking, or I couldn't find, is a few paragraphs of overview that were beutifully composed today by the three names I mentioned above. That overview will be the same for many, many years. The details will, of course, change. But that overview will remain for years to come. In truth, many of the theories I developed through my prior research were mostly correct. Though, not entirely, and I had no confidence that my theories were accurate enough to go out and start buying new products. For instance, I had figured out before today that I can "run an ISY on the Polisy" and that it was different the running "ISY on Polisy". That is with many, many hours of reading on the forum and figuring out they are different. Will the person, even a technical person, reading the UDI site or the forums understand with confidence the difference between these two options? Or, will they just think there are linguistic differences in how different people write about how the ISY works with Polisy and there is only one choice? And, that same person will read in the forums about how there is still some work to be done on getting the ISY on Policy working fully and therefore think they should not run an ISY with a Policy since it isn't done being developed yet? Even writing the above paragraph will confuse a lot of people that don't realzie that "ISY on Policy" is different than "running an ISY on a Polisy". Anyway, my point was UDI might think about providing a clearer overview of their ecosystem. In the end, I got the overview I needed today but I'm guessing there are still a lot of people out there that are technically advanced enough to use the UDI ecosystem but they do not understand the overview of how it can work for them, and so they move on.

The clarity that ISY is just software running on an i994 hardware is very helpful. It provides me the ability to more clearly understand that the Polisy is a more powerful device (upgraded I994 and probably much more) that can run both the ISY program and the Polyglot program to then bring in more capabilties of the ISY program.

Very, helpful. I have a great understanding of it now.

Very helpful, thank you.

Thank you

Ok, considering the great experiences I've had with UDI, I can see that being true. I've had some poor experiences with Beta before so to preserve my time I've learned to avoid it. But, those experiences were not with UDI so maybe I'll relax my "rule" on not using Beta if it is a UDI Beta. For those that are running ISY on Polisy, it is as full featured and stable (or nearly as stable) as a standalone ISY box?

Wow, all in three paragraphs, very, very helpful. A few follow-ups and restatements to make sure I am clear: Is Polyglot a UDI created/controlled interface program or an open program on the ether similar to Linux? Currently a physical ISY (a node) can interface using a nodeserver with a Polisy (running Polyglot) and that interface is not Beta and, aside from occasional glitches, is fully functional for the ISY through the Polisy to the end user? Currently, a person can eliminate the physical ISY and run "ISY on Polisy" which is a program? that runs alongside or on Polyglot in the Polisy device to emulate the ISY? And, is the "ISY on Polisy" the code that is still in Beta and not yet as functional as a physical ISY?

Wes, I have to agree with most of what you say on this one. I'm experienced with the ISY but knowing exactly what a nodeserver is, Polygot, Polisy, ISY on Polisy, etc. is a little confusing and I haven't found a "big picture" 30k foot description I can understand of how all of this stuff interelates. I've been able to piece together what I think these terms mean and devices do from the UDI website and these forums, but I'm sure my understanding is not very accurate. There is further confusion created by frequent incremental statements I read about how device X can now work on device Y but is in Alpha/Beta. While some people might be interested, I don't want to attempt integration of equipment that isn't refined enough to be out of Beta and have an official release. And I haven't found any clear statement of what equipment/protocols are in Alpha/Beta, have an official release, and what they can do in the official release stage. I have read in these forums that some equipment has an official release, but a certain aspect, which seems integral, is still in Alpha/Beta.....so do I want to attempt integration of that? Not really since I really don't know what it can do in the official release firmware. So, while I have a very slick ISY system and have it interacting nicely with an RTI to integrate in some outside servcies such as SONOS, etc., my lack of having a clear picture of what this next generation of UDI equipment can and cannot do has kept me from taking the leap beyond the ISY. I'm not one that wants to tinker with a new evolution of equipment just to learn. I want to know it what it can do "reliably", before taking that step. I don't have that clarity now. Don't get me wrong, I think UDI does fantastic work and I believe their focus has evolved to more lucrative work of building equipment and protocols for integration of business/commercial applications. Bravo to them for that and I wish Michel and the company great success. I assume one off sales to non-professional integrators what require a lot of hand holding and explanation probably isn't their focus. But, if that assumption is wrong and they do want to penetrate the market for people like me and @Wes Westhaver, they should think about a section of their website titled "Polisy, Polygot, ISY and Nodeservers for Dummies" and that section should have a big picture-30k foot section and also an explanation of what each of the key terms mean, and what they can do with their official release firmware. And, maybe a description of what they can do in Beta but that Beta mention might muddy that water too much. Some on these forums say a lot of this can be learned from previous posts or can be learned from the forum. With hundreds of thousands of posts on the forum someone is supposed to learn the current state of the UDI ecosystem from forum posts????? I've read thousands i don't have the level of understanding I want/need and could probably get from 30 minutes of studying a well written description of the UDI ecosystem. So, in my view, forum posts isn't an effective way for this "dummy" to figure it out. But, maybe I am below average and this stuff is just obvious and easy to everyone else. Or maybe, regular folks like me should just stay on the ISY until the Polisy is more evolved. That is my current impression.

You don't need to be a professional, but you need to take the class. You, me, my cousin, anyone can take the class. It is their way to keep someone who hasn't made any attempt to learn how to set up the equipment from soiling their reputation with uninformed statements about their equipment. Plus, it certainly helps their support staff with having people not ask basic questions like ...... Do I hook up the white wire to the red wire........, you get the idea.

Well, good to know, thank you. I often buy at supply houses on cash tickets and sometimes get good pricing, sometimes not. I've had the feeling that I didn't want to use one of the tradesman's accounts I know to not take advantage/abuse the relationship. I never thought about the flip side which is it might actually help the guy out by inching his purchase volume up. I'll start asking, I think you just helped create some win/win purchases.

@MrBill, Sometimes on these forums it is hard to relay a little soft humor. I never expected you, or anyone, to volunteer for that role and I wasn't really asking for that. And I agree it makes no sense. I was, however, poking a little fun at the idea of finding that 1 in 1,000 chance of an electrical contractor that would do what you suggested and let someone buy under their name, at their price (or a bit more) and pay at the supply house COD. I'm sure those situations exist (you described 3) and in fact I have that at a local plumbing supply house from a plumber friend of mine, but I've got to believe those situations are really unique. I understand and agree with all your points.

One of the integrators talked about having two Ra2 systems running simultaneously as an option but it seemed like there were some signficant compromises to make going that route. That solution was kicked around as it would have given me some ability to get under the hood of the system once I took the Lutron classes. But, it certainly wasn't the preferred solution and I believe there were some things I wanted to do that he said couldn't be done with Ra2 or maybe it was because we would be using two Ra2 systems and it would be cumbersome to implement and maintain. The Insteon/ISY I selected is also far from perfect. All the systems required compromises and it became a choice between those compromises. Ra3 will no doubt involve compromises but it is good to see its release as I think it will be a good option for many similar prosumers. I wasn't willing to invest the time, effort, and money to take the Homeworks class considering I knew I could accomplish my needs with the Insteon/ISY setup. With Homeworks being so customizable, I figured it would be daunting to learn enough. And, since it isn't my occupation, any knowledge I gained would be quickly forgotten and I'd be in a tough spot for ongoing service. Maybe, hopefully, Ra3 will be capable and expandable enough to handle more than Ra2 and get a little closer to Homeworks, that appears to be the case.