yardman 49

There are cases when writing a program that a wait is necessary. For instance, if you write programs that are watching states of devices so that an action can be taken. Without a "wait" being inserted, problems can occur. I have programs that use a KPL button as both a group controller and to monitor the statuses of the devices in that group via a program. Without a "wait" of about 2 seconds, the program sees the controller status change prior to all the device statuses being read back. This causes the program to get into some feedback loops with the various devices' statuses, causing the KPL button to start "blinking" instead of just changing states And one time when I left the "wait" out completely, the entire KPL went nuts, flashing very rapidly and then turning itself completely off! I had to do an air gap to bring it back. There are other cases, such as when using "repeat" commands that need "waits". Some of the other members can probably give examples for those. Sometimes if an Insteon network is not "pristine", more than one hop is required for a command to get all the way through. And then the group cleanups are issued after the commands are received. So signals can be flying around for a while. Best wishes,

Hello Rand: Sorry, too many posts for me today! I misread your message. My bad! No, "Removing & Re-adding" the RTL wouldn't have been easier. It and that TGL were part of many scenes together. For each scene, the RTL would be calling out different dim levels for all the members of those scenes. So going this route would have been a lot of extra work to get all the levels reprogrammed. All I had to do was run the "Restore Device" command on the RTL, which took about 7 minutes and also required putting the RTL into link mode twice. But that was it. My point in mentioning my need to do this is that I think the "Replace.....with" function is not yet including the RTL when it's part of the scenes in the device being replaced. Come to think of it (as I recently showed n another post), you can't even find a right-menu option for doing a "Replace....with" for an RTL yet. Michel acknowledges that this is a bug. So maybe both issues are related. Best wishes,

Hello Rand: Actually, Restore Device on the RTL was much easier to use than removing the ToggleLinc and re-adding it. That ToggleLinc was in many of the scenes on the RTL. Come to think of it, I couldn't even have removed and re-added the old TGL after doing the "Replace....with", as the old TGL appears to have had its address completely removed from the ISY. It got "vaporized" by the Replace procedure. You are right about how the RTL can time-out in the middle of an ISY function, but you can put it back in link mode and the ISY never seems to miss a beat. Thanks Michel and Chris! Best wishes,

Hello everyone: I managed to smoke one of my ToggleLinc dimmers yesterday evening. So I got the chance to use the "Replace....with" function in firmware version 2.6 on my ISY-26. If you want to read the gory details, you can visit this thread at the SH forums: http://www.techmall.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2455 So after wiring in the replacement TGL, I then added the it to "My Lighting". I then selected the bad device, right clicked, chose "Replace....with", and chose the replacement TGL. After several minutes, the operation completed with no errors. And everything was 99% back to normal. The only issues were with the Remotelinc that is a co-controller for many of the scenes of which that damaged TGL had been a part. Everytime I would press a scene button on the RTL, about 5 seconds later the RTL status light would blink once. Then it would flash several times in a row, as though it were receiving collisions. This would happen repeatedly. I was able to fix this by doing a "Restore Device" function on the RTL. But even this took about seven minutes, so I had to put it into linking mode twice. So here are my questions/observations: ________________________________________ 1) When I initially performed the "Replace....with" on the TGL, I noticed that it didn't ask me to put the RTL in linking mode. I thought this was odd, since if I was removing or adding a responder device to a scene of which the RTL was a controller, I think that it usually requires that I put the RTL in linking mode. 2) Is having to perform a "Restore Device" for a RTL "normal" after performing the "Replace.....with" function on one of its responder devices? Maybe the RTL is a special case. Or maybe this was an oversight? 3) My RTL is not only linked to Insteon devices, but also triggers my "KPL secondary cleanup programs", to turn off unwanted secondary status lights. I don't know if this played into this issue at all. 4) Since the RTL was never put into linking mode during the "Replace....with" function, could it still have been using the address from the old TGL in some of its links? This was my hypothesis, which is what led me to do the subsequent "Restore Device" on the RTL. _________________________________________ Anyway, it seems that everything is back to normal now after performing those two funtions. So thanks, Michel & Chris! This was waaay less painful than having to do everything manually. The damaged TGL was part of many different scenes, so rebuilding all those scenes manually would have taken me hours. Best wishes,

Hello Mike: You are 100% correct! I had used this same solution some time back for a similar situation. The group cleanup commands that Insteon utilizes will "step on" an X10 command that is issued immediately after an Insteon command. The wait period helps eliminate the conflict. ********************************** Not only this, but I always issue duplicate or triplicate X10 commands with wait periods in my ISY programs. The reason for this is that my X10 signals in some parts of my network have become unreliable due the the large numbers of Insteon devices sucking up the X10 signals. That, and the weakness of the PLM. So here's an example: _____________________________________________________________ PROGRAM= Rear Floods ON If From Sunset - 9 minutes For 1 hour Then Send X10 'E3/On (3)' Wait 3 seconds Send X10 'E3/On (3)' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') _____________________________________________________________ Sometimes I will use shorter wait periods (2 seconds), and also send the command in triplicate. This type of approach has worked well for my applications Best wishes

Hello Michel: I'd actually like a way to turn off the Autoupdate in the ISY GUI. When 2.6 became available, every time that I logged in to the ISY, I got a message to the effect that the update was available, and was prompted to upgrade; I had to cancel that every login prior to continuing. Although this was a mild annoyance, it got me thinking that if one of my family ever had to login to the ISY and I hadn't applied the most recent update, they might see the message and inadvertently accept the update, even if I didn't want it. Sometimes I take the viewpoint that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" when it comes to firmware and software for any device. I'd rather apply updates when I am certain that I really want them. So if there was a way to de-select the notification (as many programs and applications have), that would be great. Best wishes,

Hello JP: Both the beeper and the status light on the Controlinc can be disabled. Well, the status light doesn't really go "out", but it can be dimmed way down. This is from page 8 of the manual: Turning the Status LED On and Off This procedure toggles the white Status LED OFF or ON. The factory default is ON. 1. Simultaneously press and hold the ALL ON and DIM Buttons for 3 seconds. ControLinc will beep once and its Status LED will begin blinking slowly. 2. Release the ALL ON and DIM Buttons. 3. Press and release the ALL OFF Button. ControLinc will beep twice and its Status LED will either be off or illuminate steadily. Best wishes,

Thanks for the speedy reply, Michel. I've added this information to the 99i migration section in the Wiki.

Hello Michel: Here's a question for the "What if" category: ____________________________________________ I'm still using the ISY-26 (very happily, I might add!). At some point I'm going to switch over to the 99ir. But I figure that I'll let MikeB and all the other "bleeding-edgers" work out all of the neat things that can be done with it first . I know that going from the ISY-26 to the 99ir should be painless. Just load in the latest backup file from the ISY-26, and I should be off and running (assuming that I use the same PLM). The question is: what happens if I ever have to go backwards? I like to think about all possible scenarios. So let's say that the 99ir dies, or gets stolen, or a power surge fries it, or my dog eats it, or whatever. I guess that I could always go back to using the good ol' ISY-26. But could I then take the most recent 99ir backup file and apply it to the ISY-26 without bad things happening?? Thanks and Happy New Year!

Hello all: I'm looking for an explanation as to what "True" or "False" (in the Status column of the program summary) means to the ISY. "Activity" (Idle, Running Then, Running Else) is self explanatory. But I don't really grasp True or False in this context. Anyone care to take a stab at explaining this? If we get a good definition, we can update the Wiki. Thanks much

Hello all: This probably has been answered somewhere already, so please forgive my asking: is there a way to simply "enable" or "disable" a folder? I have some timed events grouped in a folder. I'd like to be able to stop them from running by simply selecting "Enable" or "Disable" from within the GUI. As it stands now, I still have to enable or disable each program indpendently. My guess is that this facility does not yet exist? Thanks

Hello Michel: Yes, I had done this back on 2.4.15. I currently have two RemoteLinc in my system. If "Replace" works like the other devices' "Replace" function, I would think that I should be able to right-click on either RemoteLinc, select "Replace ......with", and find the other one present in my system, as appears in the following example with a KPL: The problem is that "Replace.....with" doesn't even appear when I right click a Remotelinc. In other words, the function is simply not present in the right-click menu for the Remotelincs. But it is present for all my other devices. When I right-click a RTL, this is all I see: So I'm guessing that I must be doing something wrong? Thanks and Best wishes,

Hello Michel: No, I haven't done a KPL replace. In fact, I haven't used the Replace function at all, yet. Which brings up another slightly off-topic question: even though I have ISY 2.6, I still don't see any way to "Replace" a Remotelinc. I have had to replace one already, back when I was using ISY 2.4.15. I looked at that time for a "Replace" function for my Remotelinc after I had added a new one. But there was no such feature to be found, either in a right-click menu, or in the top menu bar. I still don't see that function in 2.6. Am I looking in the wrong place? Thanks

Hello Michel and everyone: 1) What exactly does the "Load" checkbox in the Device Properties view do? I always assumed that maybe it was just a handy way to identify if an Insteon device was actually hooked to a load. Is this all that it really means? Or does it have some other, more useful functionality? 2) When I first added all of my KPLs to the ISY-26, I had set all those flags for "Load". But I just went back in and checked them all for the first time in a long while, and....they had all been mysteriously de-selected! I don't know if this happened during a firmware revision or not. If it did, I don't know which one. I had set them all to "Load" back under 2.4.13, I think. I'm on 2.6 now. All I know is that I had never de-selected them. Thanks

Hello David: You wrote: I don't have any knowledge as to what the "v.29" means that shows up in the ISY device GUI. All my KPLs are version 1.4. But they also show as "v.29" in the ISY. You can see the version number on the face of the KPL housing, right underneath your wallplate. For the device that you're trying to control with the KPL primary button: any chance that you could use an InlinceLinc for that device? Best wishes,

Thanks, Mark. That clarifies for me when such a feature would be usefui.

Oops! Sorry, I hadn't read your link to Chris' post yet. Now I understand! Many thanks.

Hello Mark: Sorry for the deletion! I guess we are both on at the same time. How did you specify the dates in your program? I"m still missing that one. And yes, we really could use a non-year specific date format. Did you say that Chris or Michel has already promised that? Best wishes,

Hello Blartyo: The time conditionals function with what I believe is a 15 minute time window. So, if Sunset is 5pm, you have a program that is set to run at Sunset, and you enable the program at 5:10pm, it should run the "then" command. The same is true for fixed time commands. There was a bug in 2.4.15 that had turned off this feature. It was fixed in 2.5 and 2.6. If you want a wider time window, you specify that in your program, i.e., if the time is between 5 pm and 8pm, run the "Then" statement. Best wishes,

Hello Michel: I agree with Blartyo that "Run" in the Program Summary should be changed to say "Run Then" for the sake of clarity. As Mark had stated, someone had requested a "Run If" option, but I personally find it hard to think how this would be useful. After all, isn't "Enabled" the same as "Run If"? If a program is enabled, then when the conditions are met, it will run. Maybe someone can suggest when such a feature would be useful. Best wishes,

Hello Mark: Yes, that is a good idea about leaving them in. That was one possiblity that I had considered, and I will probably go that route. I just posted another thread that I'm going to delete, requesting the ability to do date scheduling! So I guess that it already exists. How do you create such a program? I can't find it under the Schedule statement options. Thanks

Thanks for the replies, Mark and Michel.

Hello Michel: Now that the Christmas season is winding down, I will probably be unplugging the Insteon modules that I have used to control my Christmas lights in my windows and for my displays. How will this effect the ISY? If it can't find the devices any longer on the network, will it then start logging Comm Errors when it can't find the devices? And if it does, will I have to clear dozen of Comm Errors for each device the next time that I log on (assuming that I don't log on for several weeks and the 3 am program is running), or will it only display the last Comm Error for each device? Also, any device not found will increase the time required for each manual query, and will result in more windows to click through after the query completes. Or have you already thought of this by not including LampLincs and ApplianceLincs in the system query? Thanks

Hello Michel: Did all ISY-26s ship with this program? I don't remember it ever being on my system. Of course, long ago when I first got the ISY, I was having many comm problems. I think I that at that time I performed a factory reset, and thereby may have removed it. But then again, life has been just fine without the "3 am" program. Why add it back and rock the boat? Most PLM-related Comm Errors occur "sporadically" (at least for me), I'd probably rather not run the program, the more that I think about it. For instance, if I do an entire network query, it's not uncommon to have 1 or 2 failures. But if I requery those devices that had a failure, they're usually communicating just fine. I attribute these the the general weakness of the PLMs Insteon communication. Since you've written the code for the ISY such that it "tells" you the failed devices the next time that you log on, why should I want to keep seeing failures that don't amount to anything every time I log on due to the "3 am" query. This brings up another topic that is related, so I'm going to start a new thread for it. Best wishes,

Hello Dave: I guess that I'm still a little confused about what you are asking, so please forgive my repeated postings on this subject. I figured that I would cover all of the various scenarios as to what you are trying to accomplish. Rand's reply really helped clear up for me what I think you were asking. As Rand has stated, you can include the KPL A (a.ka. "button 1", "primary button", "load button") in any scene as a responder from another Insteon controller (another KPL, Switchlinc or Togglelinc, Remoterlinc, etc) and you can program its "on" level to be whatever you want for that individual scene. If you are not certain how to do this, please feel free to respond back and we can explain it. However, if you walk up to said KPL A and push it "on", even if it is controlling other devices in a scene, it can only come on at one level, i.e., the level that it is set at locally. All Insteon controllers work the same way, as far as I know. ____________________________________________ So for instance, in my kitchen I have 2 KPL's. Both KPLs have some of their buttons being in the same scenes. So for instance "KPL Main" has button A controlling the load of the "Main kitchen can lights scene". Conversely, "KPL Sink" has button B also controlling the "Main kitchen can lights scene". I can walk into the kitchen, press button A on KPL Main, and the main can lights will come on at 55%. I can also walk to the KPL near the sink, and press button B, and the main can lights will also come on at 55%, but only because I have set them to do so. I could have that button set at a different level if I chose, and say, have my main cans come on at 100%, while pressing button A on the KPL Main would still give a 55% level. In this ISY-created scene, both KPL Main Button A, and KPL Sink Button B are members of the same scene, and are both entered as .controllers ___________________________________________________ On the other hand, I have that same "KPL Main Button A" in many other scenes as a responder. So for instance, from my bedroom I can do a "whole house on" from the Controlinc that turns almost all of my Insteon devices on. On that scene, I can have the "KPL Main Button A" controlling the main kitchen cans come on at 100%, or 75%, or whatever I choose. Likewise, I have a Remotelinc in the living room, where I have some of the kitchen lights included in a scene. When I press that button, I have the "KPL Main Button A" controlling the kitchen main cans come on at 15%. So as you see, I can have the load connected to KPL Button A come on at whatever level I desire from as many scenes as I care to create. ____________________________________________________ Now as Rand has already stated, the KPL secondaries, in versions of the KPL prior to 1.5, don't have the ability to control their local primary button at differing load levels. Thankfully, even if you have an earlier version of the KPL (which is what most of us have), you can still accomplish what you want via an ISY "program". The response won't be as quick as an actual device-linked "scene", but will still be able to do what you want. ____________________________________________________ Another alternate work around: could you replace the KPL with a Switchlinc or Togglelinc, and then put in the KPL in another location where you don't need it to control a load? Possible you could just put in a rework box into your wall, and then tap into any available switch or outlet box to get power for the KPL. Then you could cap the load on the KPL, and use all eight buttons to control any scenes that you desire! I hope that some of this is helpful. Best wishes,