Thermostat

[DEGoodrich]

Has any one been happy with the Venstar / Insteon thermostat?

 

I am very dissapointed... I was expecting much more. My old one does much more! I put it back today. Plus I was wasting too much energy..

 

Here is what some of my complaints are:

 

It does not usualy respond. I mostly use the remote.

It must not be in program mode to adjust the temp.

It does not return to program mode.

It does not have adjustable temp overides.

 

I cant see the temp..

 

It cycles too long I get hot then cold.

Sometimes it falls asleep, then when it wakes it switches to heat!

 

The fan is not programabale.

And you cant turn it off!!!???

 

I thought that this clould be controlled through programming.

The adapter is very limited!

 

Lat but not least.....It is UGLY!!!!!!

 

I am now happy with my good old blue touchscreen..

 

OK done griping for tonight....

[MikeB]

I'm not using the thermostats in any scenes, but I do poll it every 15 mins and use it in a couple programs I've written.

 

I haven't had any problems communicating during polls or via programs.

 

Not sure what you mean by 'it does not return to program mode' or 'I cant see the temp'?

 

Haven't had any instances where it switches to any other mode by itself, but since it's still cold here it spends most of its time on heat.

 

I seem to be able to turn the fan off fine, but not back on through the ISY yet (I need to report that in the beta thread).

 

As for looks, I don't think it's bad at all - but a unit built-in to the thermostat would be better.

 

Overall I've been happy, but the thermostat it replaced was a very basic 4-wire model. My biggest complaint is that it doesn't send out a status update on manual or temperature changes - it must be polled.

[jcthorne]

Currently you cannot adjust the temp remotely when the unit is in program mode. This needs to be fixed in the adaptor. You can adjust temp at the stat when in program mode and it returns to the programmed temp at the next programmed time change point.

 

Also the ISY needs to read both heat and cool setpoints when it polls and the unit is in program mode. Currently only heat setpoint is displayed which is pretty useless in AC operation.

 

Updates to the ISY have pretty much fixed the fan and mode change issues and the humidity is displayed now.

[Michel Kohanim]

jcthorne,

 

I am going to forward your post to SL and ask for comments.

 

Thanks so very much,

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Currently you cannot adjust the temp remotely when the unit is in program mode. This needs to be fixed in the adaptor. You can adjust temp at the stat when in program mode and it returns to the programmed temp at the next programmed time change point.

 

Also the ISY needs to read both heat and cool setpoints when it polls and the unit is in program mode. Currently only heat setpoint is displayed which is pretty useless in AC operation.

 

Updates to the ISY have pretty much fixed the fan and mode change issues and the humidity is displayed now.

[jcthorne]

Michel,

 

Did you ever hear anything back from SH? Any chance of getting the temp display ability to make temp changes in program mode fixed in the next ISY update?

 

Thanks!

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello jcthorne,

 

No ... nothing from Smarthome (unfortunately).

 

Can we already do that in 2.6.4? Would you be kind enough to be more specific?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Michel,

 

Did you ever hear anything back from SH? Any chance of getting the temp display ability to make temp changes in program mode fixed in the next ISY update?

 

Thanks!

[jcthorne]

Currently in 2.6.4 when the thermostat is in program mode, ISY only displays the heat setpoint rather than both setpoints and will not effect setpoint adjustments at all.

 

It does display the current temp and humidity correctly.

 

My understanding from SH is that the display of the two setpoints is an ISY trouble as both are sent. No knowledge of the setpoint change problem. If its a problem with the adaptor, SH is not acknowledging it. Perhaps through UDs connections with SH this could get resolved?

 

As it currently exists, the display of temp and humidity in the ISY is nice and all but useless for any kind of control as it does not change the setpoint when told to do so. Taking the stat out of program mode makes the auto temp setbacks non functional.

 

Perhaps an answer would be to program the entire setback routine in the ISY and have the stat in manual control all the time. I do not think I could come up with that much ISY programming but would sure be willing to give it a try if someone else wrote the code. A proposed work around?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello jcthorne,

 

I am very surprised that SH's customer support is blaming ISY ... would it be possible to provide me with the name of the person whom you spoke with?

 

As you can see from the latest INSTEON specs for thermostats ( http://www.universal-devices.com/docs/i ... mostat.doc ), one could only get access to the current setpoint and nothing beyond that. I am really unsure as to how this dilemma would be resolved without a new thermostat firmware/specs.

 

I just sent another email to SH and asked for clarifications. I do hope to hear back from them soon and shall inform you of the outcome as soon as I do.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Currently in 2.6.4 when the thermostat is in program mode, ISY only displays the heat setpoint rather than both setpoints and will not effect setpoint adjustments at all.

 

It does display the current temp and humidity correctly.

 

My understanding from SH is that the display of the two setpoints is an ISY trouble as both are sent. No knowledge of the setpoint change problem. If its a problem with the adaptor, SH is not acknowledging it. Perhaps through UDs connections with SH this could get resolved?

 

As it currently exists, the display of temp and humidity in the ISY is nice and all but useless for any kind of control as it does not change the setpoint when told to do so. Taking the stat out of program mode makes the auto temp setbacks non functional.

 

Perhaps an answer would be to program the entire setback routine in the ISY and have the stat in manual control all the time. I do not think I could come up with that much ISY programming but would sure be willing to give it a try if someone else wrote the code. A proposed work around?

[MikeB]

Michel -

 

My understanding from participation in the Thermostat Adapter beta is that when querying the Thermostat Adapter, if it is in Programmed Auto mode, it will return BOTH the heat and cool set points one after another, heat first and then cool, as separate messages.

 

I could be wrong, but I believe that this is the only Insteon device that returns 2 messages when queried (but only when in Programmed Auto mode). Is it possible that the ISY receives only the first response when queried, then ignores the 2nd?

[Michel Kohanim]

Mike,

 

I am looking at the traffic between ISY/PLM none of which suggest that two setpoints are returned UNLESS this is an undocumented feature which works on newer thermostats.

 

To test, go to Tools->Event Viewer, change the level to 2 and then query your thermostat.

 

Thanks and with kind regards,

Michel

 

Michel -

 

My understanding from participation in the Thermostat Adapter beta is that when querying the Thermostat Adapter, if it is in Programmed Auto mode, it will return BOTH the heat and cool set points one after another, heat first and then cool, as separate messages.

 

I could be wrong, but I believe that this is the only Insteon device that returns 2 messages when queried (but only when in Programmed Auto mode). Is it possible that the ISY receives only the first response when queried, then ignores the 2nd?

[MikeB]

Hey Michel -

 

I set the Thermostat to 'Programmed Auto', with a cool setpoint of 73 and a heat setpoint of 65. I did as you suggested, and here is my output:

 

2008/06/11 18:00:19 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.61.E8 0F 6A 00 06 (00)

 

2008/06/11 18:00:19 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.61.E8 0C.A6.12 27 6A 9A (9A)

 

2008/06/11 18:00:19 : [ E 61 E8 1] ST 154

 

2008/06/11 18:00:19 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.61.E8 0F 6A 20 06 (20)

 

2008/06/11 18:00:20 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.61.E8 0C.A6.12 27 6A 82 (82)

 

2008/06/11 18:00:20 : [ E 61 E8 1] CLISP 130

 

2008/06/11 18:00:20 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.61.E8 0F 6A 60 06 (60)

 

2008/06/11 18:00:20 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.61.E8 0C.A6.12 27 6A 50 (50)

 

2008/06/11 18:00:20 : [ E 61 E8 1] CLIHUM 80

 

2008/06/11 18:00:20 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.61.E8 0F 6B 02 06 (02)

 

2008/06/11 18:00:21 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.61.E8 0C.A6.12 27 6B 03 (03)

 

2008/06/11 18:00:21 : [ E 61 E8 1] CLIMD 3

 

I see the value 154 in there, which I believe is the current temp (77).

 

I see the value 130, which is my heat setpoint (65).

 

I don't, however, see my cool setpoint which I believe should show as a value of 146.

 

 

Here is a quote from the beta test that might shed a bit more light. I hope it helps:

 

If the mode is AUTO or PROGRAM AUTO, then things are more tricky. In that case the HEAT SETPOINT will be returned in the ACK and then the thermostat adapter will send a direct command to the PowerLinc with the command payload 0x6A 0xXX, where XX is the COOL SETPOINT.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks so very much. Had you received another direct command from the PLM, you would've seen an extra SRX (standard message received) in the traffic whereas you see none. This is 100% consistent with what we see here.

 

 

Thanks again and with kind regards,

Michel

 

Hey Michel -

 

I set the Thermostat to 'Programmed Auto', with a cool setpoint of 73 and a heat setpoint of 65. I did as you suggested, and here is my output:

 

2008/06/11 18:00:19 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.61.E8 0F 6A 00 06 (00)

 

2008/06/11 18:00:19 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.61.E8 0C.A6.12 27 6A 9A (9A)

 

2008/06/11 18:00:19 : [ E 61 E8 1] ST 154

 

2008/06/11 18:00:19 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.61.E8 0F 6A 20 06 (20)

 

2008/06/11 18:00:20 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.61.E8 0C.A6.12 27 6A 82 (82)

 

2008/06/11 18:00:20 : [ E 61 E8 1] CLISP 130

 

2008/06/11 18:00:20 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.61.E8 0F 6A 60 06 (60)

 

2008/06/11 18:00:20 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.61.E8 0C.A6.12 27 6A 50 (50)

 

2008/06/11 18:00:20 : [ E 61 E8 1] CLIHUM 80

 

2008/06/11 18:00:20 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.61.E8 0F 6B 02 06 (02)

 

2008/06/11 18:00:21 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.61.E8 0C.A6.12 27 6B 03 (03)

 

2008/06/11 18:00:21 : [ E 61 E8 1] CLIMD 3

 

I see the value 154 in there, which I believe is the current temp (77).

 

I see the value 130, which is my heat setpoint (65).

 

I don't, however, see my cool setpoint which I believe should show as a value of 146.

 

 

Here is a quote from the beta test that might shed a bit more light. I hope it helps:

 

If the mode is AUTO or PROGRAM AUTO, then things are more tricky. In that case the HEAT SETPOINT will be returned in the ACK and then the thermostat adapter will send a direct command to the PowerLinc with the command payload 0x6A 0xXX, where XX is the COOL SETPOINT.

[jcthorne]

So does anyone know if an update to the thermostat adaptor is in the works to fix the shortcommings?

 

As it is, its an interesting toy but seems pretty useless for any sort of control. Seems that once again SH roped me in with a beta release product and then promptly drops all development.

[MikeB]

I'd love to see an updated all-in-one thermostat that acts as a controller. However, I'm not sure how much of a priority it is for them at this point while they work on other products.

 

That being said, I have been happy with my Thermostat Adapter controlling my office. It performs reliably and does as it should.

 

I'm still not sure what's up with this heat/cool setpoint issue when in Programmed Auto mode, but I can say that my understand is that it should be working.

 

I'm going to dive into this a bit further, and I'll post what I find sometime soon.

[me23]

I just got the ISY-99 and I love it. However, the Venstar is only showing the heat setpoint in program auto mode when queried.

Is this something Universal Devices can fix or a problem on Smarthome's end?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello me23,

 

The thermostat returns the setpoint for the mode in program auto (the last time I checked).

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

I just got the ISY-99 and I love it. However, the Venstar is only showing the heat setpoint in program auto mode when queried.

Is this something Universal Devices can fix or a problem on Smarthome's end?

[me23]

When my thermostat is in program auto mode my two setpoints are 71 & 78. However, my isy just shows one setpoint on the main screen, which is 71.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello me23,

 

Here's the query command from SmartLabs the multiple issuance of which return the temp, the setpoint, and the humidity (if available):

Thermostat Get Zone = 0x6A (Query)
Bits 0-4 Zone number	 	 (not supported)	 
	Bits 5-6: 00 = temp	
	Bits 5-6: 01 = setpoint	
	Bits 5-6: 10 = deadband	 (not supported)	 
	bits 5-6: 11 = humidity		 
	bit 7 	 = unused	 

 

Please note that this command returns a setpoint and not different cold/heat setpoints.

 

With kind regards,

 

 

When my thermostat is in program auto mode my two setpoints are 71 & 78. However, my isy just shows one setpoint on the main screen, which is 71.

[me23]

Ok I see. That's too bad. Guess I will take the thermostat out of program mode and just use the ISY to run it's own program.

 

Thanks