isy 994 Pro/ir - stopped recognizing most Insteon devices

[jpoje]

Thanks for the update!!!

 

I tried moving my PLM to several different outlets and made little or no difference. After two days of relocating access points, plugging and unplugging appliancelincs and lamplincs one at a time, I was able to narrow down a problem device(s).

 

I totally removed the one and only "dual" lamplinc from my system and permanetly relocated one access point and everything is working perfectly again (several days now). The dual lamplinc was my newest device and was installed just prior to upgrading the ISY994.

 

Has anyone else experienced communication issues after adding a new "dual" lamplinc to their system?

[Envirogreen]

So I spoke too soon.

 

After moving the PLM to a different plug - it worked for a short time.

 

Then I tried to update a 6 button keypad, and started having the same issues.

 

moved to another outlet...started working....for a short time...and then stopped (all rules stopped working.

 

When I went into the ISY - got a number of errors.

 

Ended up replacing the PLM today, and the 6 button KPL that I thought might be the issue - since every time I made updates to it, I had problems.

 

Well no change.

 

I still have the exact same issue.

 

Right now the ISY is un-usable.

 

Is my only option to rip out every Insteon device and one by one add them in? If so, that is a non-starter as I'm not an electrician and won't be able to do that. I can remove the lamp modules to see if they make a difference.

 

Any other suggestions.

 

I'm regretting going with the Insteon/ISY option right now...but hope that with your help I can get back to the days where this just worked.

 

Thank you for your help

[LeeG]

You can isolate the wired Insteon devices by pulling the air gap switch which removes power and requires no electrical knowledge. However, I think you want to look at other items first. The more Insteon devices that are repeating messages generally the better the network works.

 

The PLM should be plugged into an outlet that is central to the electrical system. In other words it should not be out on the end of a long electrical run. Other electronics should be isolated from the PLM with a FilterLinc. It is common for devices such as UPS, PC power supply, other electronics to absorb some of the Insteon signal making it difficult to impossible to reach other devices. No surge suppressors on the circuit containing the PLM that are not isolated with a FilterLinc.

 

Insure that phase coupling is installed and working. Run the 4 tap Set button test described in the device user guide to insure there are Dual Band devices in good RF range of each other and on opposite 120v legs.

 

Unplug appliances. Turning them Off does not remove them from the power line.

 

Then see what kind of reliability exists in the various locations. Run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3. Using the Admin Console turn On/Off various devices watching the Hops Left=x count. With Max Hops=3 Hops Left=2 is the best, Hops Left=1 is okay if the count is consistent, Hops Left=0 is as poor as it gets and still work. By issuing On/Off commands to various devices a pattern of what is reliable and what is not can generally be determined.

 

DO NOT start moving the PLM around to solve problems. That may be necessary but first see what is causing issues on particularly unreliable circuits. Simple moving the PLM around often fixes on issue and causes another because the underlying problem is not PLM placement but some sort of interference or lack of good phase coupling.

 

It can be a slow and frustrating process to identify and resolve powerline issues but well worth the effort. Once a good Insteon Mesh network is established you will like the results.

[lilyoyo]

Is there a surge protector or UPS battery backup nearby?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi envirogreen,

 

In addition to great suggestions and comments above, two questions from me:

1. Do you have any INSTEON thermostats? If so, remove the dongle from them and retry

2. Do you have any baby monitors?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Envirogreen]

Everyone,

 

Thank you for all of your suggestions.

 

The particularly frustrating part of this is that the mesh network was working perfectly for several months and then all of a sudden stopped.

 

Here is where I currently am.

 

The ISY does recognize all the Insteon devices (at least that appears to be the case), however, the rules aren't working (there are one or two that sporadically do work, but the majority are not working).

 

Any other suggestions appreciated.

[Envirogreen]

Michel,

 

I have a thermostat - but that was added after the problem began.

 

I don't have a dongle for the thermostat however, so not sure how to do what you are suggesting.

 

No baby monitors in the house

[Envirogreen]

lilyoyo

 

Yes there is a UPS nearby.

 

This has always been there from day one - and as mentioned for months everything worked fine.

 

The only option to separating them would be to move the ISY/PLM to a completely different room in the house (its currently in the electric/structured media cabinet room)

[LeeG]

Devices that never show a state change could be a link record problem in the PLM. Could be a device problem but with many devices developing the problem it would more likely be a PLM link record problem. Electronics can change over time. The UPS along with other electronics should be isolated with a FilterLinc.

 

A Restore Modem (PLM) will restore the PLM link database.

 

A general sense of how well Insteon is working is to run the event viewer at LEVEL 3. Turn various devices On/Off a few times with the Admin Console and watch the Hops Left=x count. Hops Left=2 is best, Hops Left=1 is okay so long as consistent, Hops Left=0 is the worst. Past that the device will not respond.

[Envirogreen]

okay so I'm seeing a number of of insteon devices with Hops Left = 0, the majority of the rest are =1, and only a couple are =2.

 

for the UPS do I need to put a filter on it or can I address the issue by moving the ISY/PLM to another room from where the UPS is? Could that provide at least a test to confirm if the UPS is the problem?

 

Alternative I assume is unplug the UPS and see if that fixes the issue.

[LeeG]

Unplugging all electronics and any power strips with surge suppression on the PLM circuit is a good test. Any of these can be reducing the level of the Insteon signal on the power line. PLM should be plugged directly into an Outlet.

 

Also check that the Access Points used for phase coupling pass the 4 tap Set button test described in the Access Point User Guide.

[oberkc]

And if, after running the quick test suggested by LeeG, you find it the UPS that is causing the problems, yes, a filter should work (and is THE solution I recommend). Moving the PLM to a different circuit may also work, but I would rather eliminate the problem that the UPS represents to my entire insteon system.

[Envirogreen]

so this may be a silly question.

 

I have 30-40 insteon devices...almost all are dual band (2-3 are single band) - do a need access points.

 

Right now the assumption is that there are enough insteon devices so that isn't required

[Envirogreen]

Is this the right product for the filterlinc?

 

http://www.aartech.ca/1626-10-smarthome ... ilter.html

 

and is it okay for this to be plugged into the same plug as the PLM (PLM direct), UPS into the filterlinc

 

 

Also - if I need an AP - I'm assuming this is the right one - http://www.aartech.ca/2443-smarthome-in ... upler.html

 

How do I determine how many of these are required in the house?

[LeeG]

There is a positive test for phase coupling. The 4 tap Set button test is one of the few things in Insteon where successful phase coupling can be seen. Put one of the Dual Band devices into test mode and watch the others for being in RF range and on the opposite phase. Wired Dual Band devices buried inside a junction box do not have the range of Access Points. If they happen to be in metal boxes they are very restricted in terms of range and direction of coverage.

[LeeG]

That is the FilterLinc. It can be plugged into the same circuit as the PLM. The UPS, surge power strips, other electronics plugged into the filtered outlet of the FilterLinc.

 

Those are the Access Points and two are all that is needed for good phase coupling, one plugged into each 120v leg. The 4 tap Set button test will positively show they are installed correctly. Need for additional Access Points is usually determined by RF coverage for RF only devices such as motion sensors, remotelinc2, etc. Some folks have used an Access Point plugged into a problematic circuit to improve a specific circuit.

 

Did unplugging the UPS and other electronics have a positive effect on the Insteon network?

[Envirogreen]

Lee

 

Been out of town on business

 

Testing this weekend.

 

Will pot result

 

Thank you

 

Jeff

[Envirogreen]

Unplugged the UPS

 

Moved the PLM and ISY to another room away from any other electronics.

 

No change/improvement

 

When open ISY - I don't get any errors

 

I can turn on/off devices, but it doesn't recognize status of devices (just updates based on on/off directly in the browser)

 

Rules don't work.

 

Hops Left (I think that's the correct term) still low 1 and 0s.

 

Next Step?

 

Add access points?

 

How many - two?

 

Other alternatives?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello Envirogreen,

 

The improvement is that there are not communication errors. The problem is that the PLM has lost its links .... you might want to try File | Restore Modem (PLM).

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Envirogreen]

Done the palm restore

 

No difference

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Envirogreen,

 

How many links do you have in the PLM (Tools | Diagnostics | Show PLM Links Table) | Start | Wait for the process to finish | Count.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Envirogreen]

looks like 26 links - is that supposed to match up to the number of devices?

 

If so it doesn't - I have over 40 devices

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Envirogreen,

 

Way too low ... did you ever do a File | Delete Modem?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Envirogreen]

No

 

What does that do?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Envirogreen,

 

Apologies for tardy reply. I think it would be best to contact our support as I am sure my slow responses must have gotten too frustrating.

 

File | Delete Modem removes ALL the links to devices from the PLM and vice versa. The only way to get them back would be File | Restore ISY (to restore a backup with the links) and then File | Restore Devices.

 

Personally, I think that might have been the case: you only have links to the newly added devices.

 

With kind regards,

Michel