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isy 994 Pro/ir - stopped recognizing most Insteon devices


Envirogreen

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Major issue.

 

My ISY stopped recognizing most of my insteon devices.

 

I have tried restoring from a back up - but that didn't make any difference.

 

I have only had the 994 for a few weeks (upgraded from the isy 99) and it had been working perfectly prior to last night when I went in to make a change.

 

Attached a screen shot to give an example of the non-communication going on.

 

Suggestions?

post-4411-140474158663_thumb.png

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My first suspicion is a failure of something in your house that would flood the powerlines with noise. Possibly a PLM failure? I have no special troubleshooting tricks...trial and error. Though, the ISY does, I recall, have a diagnostic check of the PLM.

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I would second the possible power line noise or PLM.

Have you changed anything in the house electronically or moved something to a different location?

You may want to try the Scene Test in the Diagnostics tab and see if more data can be found.

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did restore PLM - no change.

 

did scene test but not sure what the information tells me....lots of failures but not sure what to do with this informaiton.

 

I have my old isy 99pro...so I'm going to switch that in and see what that does...should tell me if its the ISY or something else.

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I think your efforts are targeted at the wrong aspect of the installation. Using a different ISY, restoring ISY backups, restoring PLM, etc, none of that is addressing the Insteon network performance which has partially stopped working according to the initial post. Some devices are responding, many are not. Look at the devices for a pattern. Are the working devices and the failing devices on the same or opposite 120v legs, are devices near to or further away from the PLM, do the Access Points still pass the 4 tap Set button test to confirm they are in RF range of each other and on opposite 120v legs. Any new surge suppressor power strips, be sure PLM is plugged directly into an outlet, not a power strip. Are there other electronics powered from the same circuit that are not on a FilterLinc.

 

Try running Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3. Query and turn On/Off a few of the devices that are working. Do the same for a few of the devices that are not working. Post the event trace. It should provide a picture of how well the Insteon network is performing.

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Hello Envirogreen,

 

In addition to the event viewer diagnostics that LeeG has requested...

 

Observations from the screen shot you provided:

1) Your screen shot showed a total of 24 devices.

2) 22 of the devices are dual band - we can hopefully assume that your phases are coupled properly.

3) 8 devices are showing a status (they responded at one point). The remainder are showing that they failed to communicate.

 

Question 1) Are the 8 devices reliable? Do they consistently respond to queries?

 

4) Of the 24 devices shown: 4 are newer I2CS units, 4 are I2 units, the remaining 16 are unknown (added manually and show version V.00)

5) Of the 8 devices responding: 3 are the newer I2CS units, 5 are unknown. All are dual band.

6) There doesn't appear to be a pattern to the location of the responding devices. Some are on your 1st floor, some on the second.

 

Question 2) Are you using a 2412S (powerline only) or 2413S (dual band) PLM?

Question 3) Where is the PLM physically located (1st floor, basement,etc and near service panel, office (away from panel), etc).

 

Suggestions (in addition to Lee's request) -

1) You have a number of dual band Lamp modules. Try moving one to the same outlet/circuit as the PLM. Please post an event trace of a device query.

2) Have you tried a "query Insteon Engine"? Right click on the device, then select diagnostics/query Insteon Engine.

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All,

 

Thank you for your comments.

 

I did delete one devisce and tried to add it back and was not able to - I got a Cannot determine Insteon Engine Error (message attached)

 

Regarding your suggestion to run queries to hopefully give you some indication of whats going on:

 

Queried 3 lights that showed as working

 

Queried 2 that showed as not working.

 

Can't seem to add the log file.

 

so copying and pasting instead of attaching:

---

Sun 03/24/2013 01:35:28 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D 2E 0D 0F 19 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:35:28 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.2E.0D 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:35:29 PM : [iNST-ERX ] 02 51 1D 2E 0D 0F 9D 50 1B 01 E8 94 51 00 00 20 20 1D 00 7F 3C C0 00 00 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:35:29 PM : [Ext-Direct ] 1D.2E.0D-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:35:38 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D 2E 0D 0F 19 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:35:38 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.2E.0D 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:35:47 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D 2E 0D 0F 19 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:35:47 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.2E.0D 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:35:51 PM : [ 1D 2E D 1] ERR 1

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:35:58 PM : [ELK 0 17 0] Zone : 2nd Flr Motion : Violated (51/2/0)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:35:58 PM : [ELK 0 17 0] Zone : 2nd Flr Motion : Open (52/1/0)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:35:58 PM : [ELK 1 0 0] Area : The Goldstein's : Not Ready To Arm (2/0/0)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:36:00 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D 28 A8 0F 19 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:36:00 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.28.A8 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:36:01 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.28.A8 0F.9D.50 23 01 00 (00)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:36:01 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1D.28.A8-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:36:01 PM : [ 1D 28 A8 1] ST 0

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:36:01 PM : [ 1D 28 A8 1] OL 229

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:36:01 PM : [ 1D 28 A8 1] RR 28

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:36:03 PM : [ELK 0 17 0] Zone : 2nd Flr Motion : Normal (51/0/0)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:36:03 PM : [ELK 0 17 0] Zone : 2nd Flr Motion : Short (52/3/0)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:36:03 PM : [ELK 1 0 0] Area : The Goldstein's : Ready To Arm (2/1/0)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:36:42 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 21 08 D8 0F 19 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:36:42 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 21.08.D8 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:36:43 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 21.08.D8 0F.9D.50 23 15 00 LTBRITE(00)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:36:43 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 21.08.D8-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:36:43 PM : [ 21 8 D8 1] ST 0

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:36:43 PM : [ 21 8 D8 1] OL 255

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:36:43 PM : [ 21 8 D8 1] RR 28

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:37:09 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D D5 68 0F 19 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:37:09 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.D5.68 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:37:18 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D D5 68 0F 19 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:37:18 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.D5.68 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:37:25 PM : [ELK 0 17 0] Zone : 2nd Flr Motion : Violated (51/2/0)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:37:25 PM : [ELK 0 17 0] Zone : 2nd Flr Motion : Open (52/1/0)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:37:25 PM : [ELK 1 0 0] Area : The Goldstein's : Not Ready To Arm (2/0/0)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:37:27 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D D5 68 0F 19 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:37:27 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.D5.68 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:37:30 PM : [ELK 0 17 0] Zone : 2nd Flr Motion : Normal (51/0/0)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:37:30 PM : [ELK 0 17 0] Zone : 2nd Flr Motion : Short (52/3/0)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:37:30 PM : [ELK 1 0 0] Area : The Goldstein's : Ready To Arm (2/1/0)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:38:08 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D DD EE 0F 19 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:38:08 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.DD.EE 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:38:17 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D DD EE 0F 19 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:38:17 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.DD.EE 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:38:23 PM : [ELK 0 17 0] Zone : 2nd Flr Motion : Violated (51/2/0)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:38:23 PM : [ELK 0 17 0] Zone : 2nd Flr Motion : Open (52/1/0)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:38:24 PM : [ELK 1 0 0] Area : The Goldstein's : Not Ready To Arm (2/0/0)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:38:26 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D DD EE 0F 19 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:38:26 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.DD.EE 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:38:28 PM : [ELK 0 17 0] Zone : 2nd Flr Motion : Normal (51/0/0)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:38:28 PM : [ELK 0 17 0] Zone : 2nd Flr Motion : Short (52/3/0)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:38:29 PM : [ELK 1 0 0] Area : The Goldstein's : Ready To Arm (2/1/0)

----

 

By the way:

 

- No access points in the system as I have over 40 devices (vast majority dual band - I think there are 2-3 non-dual band). All in RF range. Never an issue prior to last night (I hadn't accessed the console in the past week but rules were working). Nothing has changed in the system for about 2 weeks - no new surge protectors, new tech toys, plm still directly plugged into the wall, etc).

post-4411-140474158679_thumb.png

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IndyMike,

 

Thank you for your suggestions:

 

Question 1- queried and down to 6 responding

 

 

 

Question 2 - 2413S

Question 3 - basement near the service panel

 

Suggestions:

 

1) I get a Request Failed error and nothing is written to the event log file...when I query Insteon engine nothing happens.

2) Queried Insteon Engine - first two were showing the exclamation mark, third had previously worked when I did the query, but as you can see failed on this try and now shows an exclamation mark

 

log file - can't add as file so copy and paste below

 

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:27 PM : [All ] Writing 0 bytes to devices

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:33 PM : [All ] Writing 0 bytes to devices

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:37 PM : [All ] Writing 1 bytes to devices

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:37 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D 28 A8 0F 0D 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:37 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.28.A8 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:46 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D 28 A8 0F 0D 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:46 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.28.A8 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:55 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D 28 A8 0F 0D 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:55 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.28.A8 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:59 PM : [ 1D 28 A8 1] ERR 1

post-4411-14047415869_thumb.png

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IndyMike,

 

Thank you for your suggestions:

 

Question 1- queried and down to 6 responding

... and the six that are responding are different than in your original post. I'd regard that as "non-repeatable" (intermittent communications).

 

 

Question 2 - 2413S

Question 3 - basement near the service panel

Thank you. Would it be possible to move the 2413S to the opposite phase? This would rule out a noise source/absorber near the PLM.

 

 

Suggestions:

 

1) I get a Request Failed error and nothing is written to the event log file...when I query Insteon engine nothing happens.

2) Queried Insteon Engine - first two were showing the exclamation mark, third had previously worked when I did the query, but as you can see failed on this try and now shows an exclamation mark

 

log file - can't add as file so copy and paste below

 

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:27 PM : [All ] Writing 0 bytes to devices

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:33 PM : [All ] Writing 0 bytes to devices

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:37 PM : [All ] Writing 1 bytes to devices

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:37 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D 28 A8 0F 0D 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:37 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.28.A8 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:46 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D 28 A8 0F 0D 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:46 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.28.A8 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:55 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D 28 A8 0F 0D 00

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:55 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.28.A8 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

 

Sun 03/24/2013 01:54:59 PM : [ 1D 28 A8 1] ERR 1

 

The above log is showing a device timeout for a "Insteon Engine query". The ISY attempted to communicate to the device 3 times and did not receive a response.

 

Questions:

1) The device address shown in the event viewer was not in your original list. What type of device is this?

2) Have you tried moving one of your dual band Lamplincs to the same circuit as the PLM (or is that what you are showing above)?

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Device 1D 2E 0D did not respond

 

Device 1D 28 A8 responded but at the extreme end of reliability (Hops Left=0)

 

Device 21.08.D8 responded but at the extreme end of reliability (Hops Left=0)

 

Device 1D D5 68 did not respond

 

Device 1D DD EE did not respond

 

The Query Insteon Engine to device 1D.28.A8 got no response.

 

The Insteon network is not working at all for most of the devices and barely for those that did respond. Use an Appliance cord (plug on one end, bare wires on the other) to connect one of the devices that are not responding at all to the Appliance cord and plug the device into the PLM plug point. Does the device work there. If not replace the PLM. I am inclined to believe there is some other problem but the simplest way to verify that is use a new PLM. If I am wrong the PLM is bad and problem solved. If the new PLM has the same problem then the Insteon network will have to be analyzed to identify the actual problem.

 

The PLM can be factory reset and a Restore Modem (PLM) done to rebuild the link database. The link database has no part to play in querying a device so it is not in question at this point. It is the factory reset of the PLM that is functional.

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I am attempting to add 5 SwitchLinc 2477Ds to my setup in order to improve system reliability. These will be installed across two circuits (a 3-way and a 4-way) that are on different phases and hopefully will improve phase coupling and stability in my system.

 

However, I cannot add any of the SwitchLinc 2477Ds to the ISY 994i. I get "Cannot determine Insteon Engine." This happens regardless of whether I select AutoDiscover or 2477D in the device type list. Very bad for WAF, as now she can't control any of our downstairs or upstairs hall lights. I will either have to pull out the switches or manually link them using the Insteon method.

 

Does anyone have SwitchLinc 2477Ds working with an ISY?

 

Here are my events from trying to add:

Sun 03/24/2013 07:30:31 PM : [1D DB EC    ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY
Sun 03/24/2013 07:30:31 PM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 1D DB EC 0F 0D 00
Sun 03/24/2013 07:30:31 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 1D.DB.EC 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)
Sun 03/24/2013 07:30:33 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 1D.DB.EC 11.CE.0A A3 0D FF           (FF)
Sun 03/24/2013 07:30:33 PM : [std-Direct Nack] 1D.DB.EC-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0
Sun 03/24/2013 07:30:33 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 1D DB EC 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6
Sun 03/24/2013 07:30:33 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 1D.DB.EC 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01)
Sun 03/24/2013 07:30:34 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 1D.DB.EC 11.CE.0A 23 09 01    LNK-ON (01)
Sun 03/24/2013 07:30:34 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1D.DB.EC-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0
Sun 03/24/2013 07:30:34 PM : [LNK-BGN     ] 02 64 01 00 06 
Sun 03/24/2013 07:30:38 PM : [1D DB EC 0  ] Failed to add device
Sun 03/24/2013 07:30:38 PM : [LNK-END     ] 02 65 06 : : Unexpected, ignored (65)

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kingwr

 

I have 2477D SwitchLinc Dual Band installed. You have an I2CS SwitchLinc which did not respond as required. Below is what should have happened. The message in Blue is the PLM going into linking mode which should have generated a message from the SwitchLinc (you take no action to cause that message to be sent). The message in Red is missing from your SwitchLinc. Note that a few lines above a message from your SwitchLinc has Hops Left=0. Likely the new I2CS SwitchLinc does not have good communication at its install location. Suggest putting it on an Appliance cord that is plugged into the PLM plug point. It will likely add at that location. May continue to have problems at its original install location as all link management will have to be done with extended commands because it is an I2CS device.

 

Thu 03/21/2013 12:56:49 PM : [22 8b e0 ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY

 

Thu 03/21/2013 12:56:49 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 22 8B E0 0F 0D 00

 

Thu 03/21/2013 12:56:49 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 22.8B.E0 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

 

Thu 03/21/2013 12:56:50 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 22.8B.E0 19.70.06 AB 0D FF (FF)

 

Thu 03/21/2013 12:56:50 PM : [std-Direct Nack] 22.8B.E0-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Thu 03/21/2013 12:56:50 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 22 8B E0 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6

 

Thu 03/21/2013 12:56:50 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 22.8B.E0 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01)

 

Thu 03/21/2013 12:56:50 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 22.8B.E0 19.70.06 2B 09 01 LNK-ON (01)

 

Thu 03/21/2013 12:56:50 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 22.8B.E0-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Thu 03/21/2013 12:56:50 PM : [LNK-BGN ] 02 64 01 00 06

 

Thu 03/21/2013 12:56:52 PM : [LNK-STAT ] 02 53 M(01) gid=00 22.8B.E0 011C 41

 

Thu 03/21/2013 12:56:52 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 22 8B E0 0F 0D 00

 

Thu 03/21/2013 12:56:52 PM : [LNK-END ] 02 65 06

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Shouldn't the 2477Ds, being dual band, be reachable wirelessly? My wired Insteon sucks, and the lack of any diagnostic tools for Insteon ensure that is will continue to suck for a long time. But I thought the dual-band devices would also be reachable wirelessly, through at least one of the 4 access points in my house. There is one access point not 15 feet from each of two 2477Ds on a 3-way circuit, yet the ISY can talk to one but not the other (now - originally couldn't talk to any of them). These two 2477Ds are wired directly together for the 3-way circuit. How is it possible that the communications could be so bad in this scenario?

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Wired Dual Band devices do not have the range of an Access Point. They are installed inside a box with 120v wiring on at least one side of the device. If installed in metal boxes RF coverage is restricted even further. Could try pulling the SwitchLinc out of the box so that there is less potential RF interference. As you say, until good tools are provided by SmartLabs this will be a guessing game of trial and error.

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Lee

 

Reset PLM and then restore PLM...no change

 

IndyMike,

 

How do I move the 2413 to the opposite phase?

 

Questions

1) if you are referring to 1d 28 a8 - that is a 2477D

2) yes I did and I got no response from the dual band lamplinc when I queried it.

 

If I understand your response correctly -

 

1) You factory reset/restored to PLM (per Lee's request).

2) You plugged a dual band lamplinc in the same circuit as the PLM and received no response to a query.

 

If the above is correct, you are either dealing with a failing PLM, or have severe corruption of the powerline communication.

 

I had asked about moving the PLM to the opposite phase because it's possible that only one of the phases is corrupted. You'll need to figure out which breaker your current PLM location is being supplied from. Once you know this, select a location/breaker that is on the alternate phase per the picture below. Alternating breakers from top to bottom are on the opposite phase. Breakers across the horizontal are on the same phase.

 

Another approach would be to use a Filterlinc on the PLM itself. This will eliminate any powerline corruption and force the PLM to utilize RF exclusively.

sub_panel.JPG

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Envirogreen

 

Did you ever replace your PLM and did that solve your communication issue? I am experiencing very similar problems after an ISY upgrade and have tried everything up to an including unplugging just about everything in my home, moving filterlincs, moving access points, restoring PLM, nothing makes a difference.

 

Thanks.

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Thanks for the quick response, frustrating is putting it mildly.

 

I plugged the PLM into a filterlinc (as suggested in one of your posts) and I was able to get communication back to some of my devices, so what does that mean, powerline problem? All my devices are actually "working" (go on and off jus fine), I believe it is just communication coming "back" to the ISY and writing "updates" to devices?

 

I'm just trying to figure out now what may happen with some of my programs that try to run when the "status" of so many devices are not correct in ISY?

 

Thanks again and please post back when you receive your PLM.

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