Dumped my link table (SwitchLink) - Can't restore??

[IndyMike]

Hello Learned Members,

 

After performing some rather nasty stress testing last night, I found that one of my Switchlincs had lost it's link table. I could control the device directly from the GUI, but it no longer responded to scenes and the PLM did not recognize a status change initiated at the switch.

 

Oh well, Device Restore to the rescue - problem is, it didn't rescue me. I have successfully used the Device restore with KPL's on several occasions. It's a huge time saver that has really saved my derrière with the KPL's.

 

For some reason, it isn't working with this particular Switchlinc and I'm curious why. Call it my need to know.

 

To date I've performed every combination of "factory reset" and restore that I can think of (PLM and SL). I've also restored the ISY from a backup. I simply can't get the links back into this device using a restore.

 

Here's the configuration (Entry Patio is my problem device):

 

SC Ouside Night

Master KPL Entry: Responder

Mud KPL Entry Garage: Responder

Entry Porch: Responder

Fam KPL Entry: Responder

Entry Patio: Responder

Entry Deck: Responder

 

SC Outside Status:

Master KPL Entry: Responder

Fam KPL Entry: Responder

 

SC Outside Sunset:

Master KPL Entry: Responder

Mud KPL Entry Garage: Responder

Entry Porch: Responder

Fam KPL Entry: Responder

Entry Patio: Responder

Entry Deck: Responder

 

Symptoms -

1) ISY cannot "hear" changes initiated at the Switchlinc. I interpret this as meaning that the SL has lost the link to the PLM.

2) I cannot control the Switchlinc through either of my two scenes. I interpret this as meaning the the SL has lost the scene (or group) link as well.

3) I can control the SL through the My Lighting tree. I believe this is a "direct" address command to the device.

4) I can query the device from the My Lighting tree (similar to 3 above).

 

I realize that I can correct this situation by performing a manual remove/add device. This rather painful procedure was common before UDI perfected the "Device Restore".

 

To prove this, I removed/added the SL to my "outside sunset" scene. It now functions normally within that scene.

 

At present, I have not restored the link for my "night scene" or the link to the PLM itself. I'm looking for guidance on how to determine why the "restore" is not working for this particular device.

 

I'm a bit concerned that others, when encountering the same problem, might interpret this as being signal related. I've seen numerous posts regarding scene problems with devices that were physically next to one another (one works the other doesn't). In troubleshooting issues like this, I had assumed that a device restore would rule out the possibility of link table corruption. Obviously I was wrong.

 

Thanks in advance,

IM

 

ISY-26 V2.6.3

Rev 2.75 PLM

[Guest]

Hmmmmmmm never heard of such a problem

 

In all seriousness a factory reset on the keypadlinc always worked for me except for one time when I had to remove and add back the device.

 

Sorry to hear that you are having these issues. GOOD LUCK!

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello IndyMike,

 

I am so very sorry to hear that you are having these problems. The one thing that makes this rather difficult is that you have done any permutation of factory reset and restore none of which worked. On the one hand, I could've immediately declared that ISY has a corrupt configuration file for your device but, on the other hand, you have already restored it from a previous backup. It's very possible that ISY always had a corrupted configuration file for this device but this cannot be proven till we swap this device with another (you would need 2.6.4) using the Replace function.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[IndyMike]

Michel,

 

I had thought about using the "Replace" but was surprised to find that it was no longer available with V2.6.3.

 

I'm trying to figure out the thought process here. If I use a replace and the problem is duplicated on the new device, that would indicate a corrupted ISY configuration file - correct?

 

If the problem isn't duplicated, I have a problematic Switchlinc?

 

I'm thinking about rolling back to V2.6.1 to give this a try. Is that advisable, or is there a problem with the "replace" under 2.6.1? I'm a bit curious as to why it was pulled under 2.6.3.

 

CORRECTION (4-7-08) - Replace is still available under V2.6.3. I may have "clicked" on a KPL secondary when looking for the option. Sorry for the confusion.

 

 

Thank you,

IM

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi IndyMike,

 

The Replace function in 2.6.0 and above on occasion changes the device type and as such I do not recommend it (unless you feel brave!). If you do not mind waiting, we should have 2.6.4 shortly.

 

You got it: if the replace on a new switch creates the same behavior, then it's ISY otherwise it's the SWL.

 

Other questions:

1. How old is your PLM? If older than 6 months, please take a look at your http://your.isy.ip.address/WEB/NODESCNF.XML and see if you find any groups with the element having any value below 20. If so, it might also be the PLM.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

Michel,

 

I had thought about using the "Replace" but was surprised to find that it was no longer available with V2.6.3.

 

I'm trying to figure out the thought process here. If I use a replace and the problem is duplicated on the new device, that would indicate a corrupted ISY configuration file - correct?

 

If the problem isn't duplicated, I have a problematic Switchlinc?

 

I'm thinking about rolling back to V2.6.1 to give this a try. Is that advisable, or is there a problem with the "replace" under 2.6.1? I'm a bit curious as to why it was pulled under 2.6.3.

 

Thank you,

IM

[Guest]

Hi IndyMike,

 

The Replace function in 2.6.0 and above on occasion changes the device type and as such I do not recommend it (unless you feel brave!). If you do not mind waiting, we should have 2.6.4 shortly.

 

You got it: if the replace on a new switch creates the same behavior, then it's ISY otherwise it's the SWL.

 

Other questions:

1. How old is your PLM? If older than 6 months, please take a look at your http://your.isy.ip.address/WEB/NODESCNF.XML and see if you find any groups with the element having any value below 20. If so, it might also be the PLM.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

Michel,

 

I had thought about using the "Replace" but was surprised to find that it was no longer available with V2.6.3.

 

I'm trying to figure out the thought process here. If I use a replace and the problem is duplicated on the new device, that would indicate a corrupted ISY configuration file - correct?

 

If the problem isn't duplicated, I have a problematic Switchlinc?

 

I'm thinking about rolling back to V2.6.1 to give this a try. Is that advisable, or is there a problem with the "replace" under 2.6.1? I'm a bit curious as to why it was pulled under 2.6.3.

 

Thank you,

IM

 

I can use the replace function as well. I replaced 4 switchlincs defective switchlincs this weekend that were causing a lot of problems and had to remopve them and add new devices. I want to replace a few switchlincs with more keypads next.

 

Using an O'scope and a lot of help from a friend I went through my entire house looking for sources of noise. While doing that we stumbled on 4 switchlincs that had a signal of less than 1 Vpp or so compared to 2.5 to 4 Vpp for all others. He caught it not me as he was looking at everything and anything not just for noise since he did not believe the noise rationale.

 

By getting rid of these 4 devices the mass query rarely sees a comm failure. Apparently the signal was strong enough to get through eventually after a few tries but during a mass query apparently was causing the PLM to not hear other devices???? Not sure exactly why but replacing these 4 switchlincs seems to have improved my PLM communications.

 

The replacement devices put into these 4 loactions have normal signal strength (so it was not "Signal suckers" on that circuit).

 

It is a real pain in the butt to catch the signal on a scope (or was for me at least and granted we were using a borrowed scope that we are not familiar with). But it probably gives the best information. No noise sources were really noted. There was one set of lights that we did see a very quick hiccup when they were turned on but not a constant noise. I pulled all of the filterlincs out now as they were useless and a waste of money.

 

Anyway so far things seem better. Time will tell.

[IndyMike]

Michel,

Message received on the replace option. I'll put some workarounds in place and wait for 2.6.4.

 

I checked my NODESCNF.XML file. I do have some groups with elements less than 20 (not in my problem scene). I remember seeing something about this some time back, but have forgotten the implications.

 

The PLM is ~ 2 months old (upgraded to a 2.75), but everything was imported from a PLM purchased in Aug.

 

Thanks again,

IM

 

Hi IndyMike,

 

The Replace function in 2.6.0 and above on occasion changes the device type and as such I do not recommend it (unless you feel brave!). If you do not mind waiting, we should have 2.6.4 shortly.

 

You got it: if the replace on a new switch creates the same behavior, then it's ISY otherwise it's the SWL.

 

Other questions:

1. How old is your PLM? If older than 6 months, please take a look at your http://your.isy.ip.address/WEB/NODESCNF.XML and see if you find any groups with the element having any value below 20. If so, it might also be the PLM.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[IndyMike]

Digger,

 

It's got to feel great to make some progress after all this time - congratulations.

 

When you get a chance, could you update us on the version/date code of the switches that were giving you a problem?

 

Thanks,

IM

 

 

I can use the replace function as well. I replaced 4 switchlincs defective switchlincs this weekend that were causing a lot of problems and had to remopve them and add new devices. I want to replace a few switchlincs with more keypads next.

 

Using an O'scope and a lot of help from a friend I went through my entire house looking for sources of noise. While doing that we stumbled on 4 switchlincs that had a signal of less than 1 Vpp or so compared to 2.5 to 4 Vpp for all others. He caught it not me as he was looking at everything and anything not just for noise since he did not believe the noise rationale.

 

By getting rid of these 4 devices the mass query rarely sees a comm failure. Apparently the signal was strong enough to get through eventually after a few tries but during a mass query apparently was causing the PLM to not hear other devices???? Not sure exactly why but replacing these 4 switchlincs seems to have improved my PLM communications.

 

The replacement devices put into these 4 loactions have normal signal strength (so it was not "Signal suckers" on that circuit).

 

It is a real pain in the butt to catch the signal on a scope (or was for me at least and granted we were using a borrowed scope that we are not familiar with). But it probably gives the best information. No noise sources were really noted. There was one set of lights that we did see a very quick hiccup when they were turned on but not a constant noise. I pulled all of the filterlincs out now as they were useless and a waste of money.

 

Anyway so far things seem better. Time will tell.

[Guest]

Digger,

 

It's got to feel great to make some progress after all this time - congratulations.

 

When you get a chance, could you update us on the version/date code of the switches that were giving you a problem?

 

Thanks,

IM

 

 

I can use the replace function as well. I replaced 4 switchlincs defective switchlincs this weekend that were causing a lot of problems and had to remopve them and add new devices. I want to replace a few switchlincs with more keypads next.

 

Using an O'scope and a lot of help from a friend I went through my entire house looking for sources of noise. While doing that we stumbled on 4 switchlincs that had a signal of less than 1 Vpp or so compared to 2.5 to 4 Vpp for all others. He caught it not me as he was looking at everything and anything not just for noise since he did not believe the noise rationale.

 

By getting rid of these 4 devices the mass query rarely sees a comm failure. Apparently the signal was strong enough to get through eventually after a few tries but during a mass query apparently was causing the PLM to not hear other devices???? Not sure exactly why but replacing these 4 switchlincs seems to have improved my PLM communications.

 

The replacement devices put into these 4 loactions have normal signal strength (so it was not "Signal suckers" on that circuit).

 

It is a real pain in the butt to catch the signal on a scope (or was for me at least and granted we were using a borrowed scope that we are not familiar with). But it probably gives the best information. No noise sources were really noted. There was one set of lights that we did see a very quick hiccup when they were turned on but not a constant noise. I pulled all of the filterlincs out now as they were useless and a waste of money.

 

Anyway so far things seem better. Time will tell.

 

Things seem to be working perfectly at the moment (fingers crossed it stays that way). Who would think that a few bad switches would screw everything up? I never should have listened to all of the "fans" saying it was noise amd to buy filters etc. I think when people cant explain something they say its noise. Some people refuse to accept that sometimes the products are defective.

 

I actually dont have them since I cant exchange them (we wont go there) and Carlos said he would try for me. I do remember that the first two digits for them were 09, and OB. That places them less than a year old. All were Switchlincs. I have others from the same time period that seem fine.

 

I cant tell you how much time and money I wasted on this. I have 4 extra accesspoints and 8 filterlincs. I guess the accesspoints cant hurt but I would never have bought extra's if this just worked. Same for the filters.

 

I have done about 40 or 50 mass queries and so far I maybe 3 times I had one comm failure and never more than that. That beats 5 to 20 comm failures each time.

 

Again now it seems it just works

[Michel Kohanim]

IndyMike,

 

If you have a new PLM, then I wouldn't worry about it. That's all that matters. 2.6.4 should be out shortly and we should be able to solve this mystery soon!

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Michel,

Message received on the replace option. I'll put some workarounds in place and wait for 2.6.4.

 

I checked my NODESCNF.XML file. I do have some groups with elements less than 20 (not in my problem scene). I remember seeing something about this some time back, but have forgotten the implications.

 

The PLM is ~ 2 months old (upgraded to a 2.75), but everything was imported from a PLM purchased in Aug.

 

Thanks again,

IM

 

Hi IndyMike,

 

The Replace function in 2.6.0 and above on occasion changes the device type and as such I do not recommend it (unless you feel brave!). If you do not mind waiting, we should have 2.6.4 shortly.

 

You got it: if the replace on a new switch creates the same behavior, then it's ISY otherwise it's the SWL.

 

Other questions:

1. How old is your PLM? If older than 6 months, please take a look at your http://your.isy.ip.address/WEB/NODESCNF.XML and see if you find any groups with the element having any value below 20. If so, it might also be the PLM.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[brobin]

A question on the replace feature: I'm running 2.6.3 and in fact, I DO have the replace feature and it does work. There is a limitation though and I wonder if it could be 'fixed'.

 

When I replaced a SwitchLinc Dimmer with another dimmer there was no problem but when I replaced a SwitchLinc Relay with a SL Dimmer, I was not able to select the dimmer and had to delete the relay and build the dimmer back in. I do realize that there is a difference between the two but it would be nice be able to get all the links in place through the "replace" feature. The only thing that would "confuse" the system would be the lack of ramp and dim level in the SL Relay. Perhaps the ISY could handle that by just ignoring them if replacing a dimmer with a relay or setting them to minimum ramp and maximum level when replacing a relay with a dimmer.

[Guest]

Digger,

 

It's got to feel great to make some progress after all this time - congratulations.

 

When you get a chance, could you update us on the version/date code of the switches that were giving you a problem?

 

Thanks,

IM

 

 

I can use the replace function as well. I replaced 4 switchlincs defective switchlincs this weekend that were causing a lot of problems and had to remopve them and add new devices. I want to replace a few switchlincs with more keypads next.

 

Using an O'scope and a lot of help from a friend I went through my entire house looking for sources of noise. While doing that we stumbled on 4 switchlincs that had a signal of less than 1 Vpp or so compared to 2.5 to 4 Vpp for all others. He caught it not me as he was looking at everything and anything not just for noise since he did not believe the noise rationale.

 

By getting rid of these 4 devices the mass query rarely sees a comm failure. Apparently the signal was strong enough to get through eventually after a few tries but during a mass query apparently was causing the PLM to not hear other devices???? Not sure exactly why but replacing these 4 switchlincs seems to have improved my PLM communications.

 

The replacement devices put into these 4 loactions have normal signal strength (so it was not "Signal suckers" on that circuit).

 

It is a real pain in the butt to catch the signal on a scope (or was for me at least and granted we were using a borrowed scope that we are not familiar with). But it probably gives the best information. No noise sources were really noted. There was one set of lights that we did see a very quick hiccup when they were turned on but not a constant noise. I pulled all of the filterlincs out now as they were useless and a waste of money.

 

Anyway so far things seem better. Time will tell.

 

I noted this morning that I still get comm failures if I have a program telling more than one device to do something. I think I will have to add a pause in between somehow.

[Michel Kohanim]

brobin,

 

Thanks for the feedback. We actually did some experimentation with this and decided against it simply because we do NOT know how a specific device (say a relay) behaves when we restore the links for dimmer into it. Theoretically, they should work but we found some anomalies which made us hesitate doing so (the code is already there, we just removed the mapping which shows which devices are compatible with what other devices).

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

A question on the replace feature: I'm running 2.6.3 and in fact, I DO have the replace feature and it does work. There is a limitation though and I wonder if it could be 'fixed'.

 

When I replaced a SwitchLinc Dimmer with another dimmer there was no problem but when I replaced a SwitchLinc Relay with a SL Dimmer, I was not able to select the dimmer and had to delete the relay and build the dimmer back in. I do realize that there is a difference between the two but it would be nice be able to get all the links in place through the "replace" feature. The only thing that would "confuse" the system would be the lack of ramp and dim level in the SL Relay. Perhaps the ISY could handle that by just ignoring them if replacing a dimmer with a relay or setting them to minimum ramp and maximum level when replacing a relay with a dimmer.

[Sub-Routine]

 

I noted this morning that I still get comm failures if I have a program telling more than one device to do something. I think I will have to add a pause in between somehow.

 

Can you create a scene with those devices? Then only one command is sent and all devices respond to it.

 

Rand

[Guest]

 

I noted this morning that I still get comm failures if I have a program telling more than one device to do something. I think I will have to add a pause in between somehow.

 

Can you create a scene with those devices? Then only one command is sent and all devices respond to it.

 

Rand

 

It is a scene. The problem is that the PLM seems to get confused when more than one device acknowledges the command?? If I add a pause it should be ok since one device will be told to go on and acknowledge and then the second device etc.

 

I have a "panic" scene where if one button on a keypad is pushed (or the ELK send a command) about 6 or 7 lights are to turn on. When that happens the lights turn on/off/on/of/on/off continueously until the ISY or PLM is unplugged.

[MikeB]

If I add a pause it should be ok since one device will be told to go on and acknowledge and then the second device etc.

 

If it's a single scene you're executing with the ISY, where would you add the pause?

 

I have a "panic" scene where if one button on a keypad is pushed (or the ELK send a command) about 6 or 7 lights are to turn on. When that happens the lights turn on/off/on/of/on/off continueously until the ISY or PLM is unplugged.

 

Sounds like it's caught in some sort of loop. Do you have a program somewhere that triggers this scene?

[Michel Kohanim]

Digger,

 

Furthermore, may I humbly suggest unplugging ELK before ISY/PLM? It might be the ELK.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

If I add a pause it should be ok since one device will be told to go on and acknowledge and then the second device etc.

 

If it's a single scene you're executing with the ISY, where would you add the pause?

 

I have a "panic" scene where if one button on a keypad is pushed (or the ELK send a command) about 6 or 7 lights are to turn on. When that happens the lights turn on/off/on/of/on/off continueously until the ISY or PLM is unplugged.

 

Sounds like it's caught in some sort of loop. Do you have a program somewhere that triggers this scene?

[Guest]

If I add a pause it should be ok since one device will be told to go on and acknowledge and then the second device etc.

 

If it's a single scene you're executing with the ISY, where would you add the pause?

 

I have a "panic" scene where if one button on a keypad is pushed (or the ELK send a command) about 6 or 7 lights are to turn on. When that happens the lights turn on/off/on/of/on/off continueously until the ISY or PLM is unplugged.

 

Sounds like it's caught in some sort of loop. Do you have a program somewhere that triggers this scene?

 

No program triggering the scene. You push the button on the keypadlinc.

 

I will have to write a program to add the pause. Have not had time to play with that.

[Guest]

Digger,

 

Furthermore, may I humbly suggest unplugging ELK before ISY/PLM? It might be the ELK.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

If I add a pause it should be ok since one device will be told to go on and acknowledge and then the second device etc.

 

If it's a single scene you're executing with the ISY, where would you add the pause?

 

I have a "panic" scene where if one button on a keypad is pushed (or the ELK send a command) about 6 or 7 lights are to turn on. When that happens the lights turn on/off/on/of/on/off continueously until the ISY or PLM is unplugged.

 

Sounds like it's caught in some sort of loop. Do you have a program somewhere that triggers this scene?

 

Agreed and for the ELK triggered that worked last I tried (I believe there is an ELK firmware update on the way), however, for the panic trigger off of the KPL it did not help.

[MikeB]

No program triggering the scene. You push the button on the keypadlinc.

 

I will have to write a program to add the pause. Have not had time to play with that.

 

Not sure I follow. So, you have a scene containing your 6 or 7 devices, with the KPL button as a controller. So, when you push that KPL it triggers the scene.

 

How will adding a program create a delay for you?

 

So, when you push this KPL, what goes wrong? The lights start flashing on/off?

[Algorithm]

Pardon my confustion: Digger, is it your intention to have the lights flash on and off repeatedly when the Panic button is pressed? If so, are you achieving that by use of a program?

[Guest]

No program triggering the scene. You push the button on the keypadlinc.

 

I will have to write a program to add the pause. Have not had time to play with that.

 

Not sure I follow. So, you have a scene containing your 6 or 7 devices, with the KPL button as a controller. So, when you push that KPL it triggers the scene.

 

How will adding a program create a delay for you?

 

So, when you push this KPL, what goes wrong? The lights start flashing on/off?

 

Exactly. instead of just turning the lights on they all flash randomly.

[Guest]

Pardon my confustion: Digger, is it your intention to have the lights flash on and off repeatedly when the Panic button is pressed? If so, are you achieving that by use of a program?

 

Its just a scene called panic. If you press the keypad button those 6 or 7 lights should just turn on. Simple enough...... but it doesnt work.

 

When we had a scope on the line there was a ton of traffic when this occurred. Again at the moment no program just a scene.

 

Its wierd..... but I am sure I can doa workaround.

 

For the record I am not complaining just stating an observation.

[MikeB]

After activating a scene with a lot of responders, there will be some traffic on the line (clean up). This shouldn't stop the scene from running, however - I have a scene controlling 70+ devices and they all respond immediately.

 

BUT, if you have any programs that will run immediately AFTER the scene is triggered, they could run into all that clean up traffic and not run properly.

 

For example, I have a Kitchen Breakfast scene that has 8 responders. When I activate this scene with a KPL secondary, I have a few programs that run to check the status of my lights & KPL, and update the KPL button accordingly. If I have that program run and update the KPL IMMEDIATELY after the status change, it sometimes runs into the cleanup traffic. I simply add a second or 2 delay to my status update program so it doesn't run into the clean up. Here's an example program:

 

If
       Status  'KitchenControls1H' is not Off
   And (
            Status  'KitchenBar1' is not Off
         Or Status  'KitchenMain1' is not 50%
         Or Status  'KitchenTable1' is not 60%
       )

Then
       Wait  2 seconds
       Set Scene 'KitchenDinnerStatus' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

BUT I don't think this is the case with your issue, because - unless I'm misunderstanding - your scene doesn't work at all and goes into some kind of on/off loop.

 

That's why I thought maybe it was some program that runs AFTER you activate the scene that might be throwing the ISY into some kind of loop. Or, like Michel suggested, maybe the Elk is doing something.

 

Good luck.

[Algorithm]

Pardon my confustion: Digger, is it your intention to have the lights flash on and off repeatedly when the Panic button is pressed? If so, are you achieving that by use of a program?

 

Its just a scene called panic. If you press the keypad button those 6 or 7 lights should just turn on. Simple enough...... but it doesnt work.

 

When we had a scope on the line there was a ton of traffic when this occurred. Again at the moment no program just a scene.

 

Its wierd..... but I am sure I can doa workaround.

 

For the record I am not complaining just stating an observation.

 

Apologies for the misunderstanding. There was actually an original X-10 Maxi-controller which included a 'Panic' button that when pushed did exactly that--it sent repeated All-Lights-On/All-Units-Off commands to turn all lights on and off, until it was unplugged! I wasn't sure whether you were attempting to emulate that behavior. As you are not, please disregard my question.