tome Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 I upgraded a 99i to a 994i this evening according to the instructions here (and what UDI sent). The 99i as well as the 994i are both at 3.3.10. I now have several devices that show a red exclamation point in front of them, but the the ISY can control them just fine. I have tried to query each one multiple times but that didn't help, but I can turn them on/off without any problem. I did a Show Device Links Table on one of the devices and got this error message: Failed reading device link (ArtShedLights) [-200000/-S] SSL request not authenticated Below is the output of Show ISY Links Table: ISY Links Table : ArtShedLights / 12 EC D7 1 0 4088 162 0 1667512 16719616 1 4080 162 1 1294714 16719616 2 4072 162 16 1667512 16719616 3 4064 226 1 1294714 16719617 4 4056 226 1 1667512 1 5 4048 0 0 0 0 What could be the problem? Tom
LeeG Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 Nothing obvious from the link table display 0FF8 : A2 00 19.71.B8 FF 1F 00 0FF0 : A2 01 13.C1.7A FF 1F 00 0FE8 : A2 10 19.71.B8 FF 1F 00 0FE0 : E2 01 13.C1.7A FF 1F 01 0FD8 : E2 01 19.71.B8 00 00 01 0FD0 : 00 00 00.00.00 00 00 00 Device Record Count : 6 Do not know what the SSL error means. What does the Event Viewer at LEVEL 3 indicate when one of the devices with a Red ! is selected with Right click and Write Updates to Device is selected.
tome Posted April 2, 2013 Author Posted April 2, 2013 What does the Event Viewer at LEVEL 3 indicate when one of the devices with a Red ! is selected with Right click and Write Updates to Device is selected. See attachment:
LeeG Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 Is the same PLM being used with the 994i? What is the Device Type of 12.EC.D7? It took two attempts to Query the Insteon Engine of 12.EC.D7 which is an I2 device. Three attempts were made to start to access to the device link database. The device failed to respond to each of the three attempts which is strange since the Show Device Links Table would have done a similar command sequence. Very hard to explain the results with the available information. Has anything changed from when the Show Device Links Table was successful and when the Write Update to Device failed?
tome Posted April 2, 2013 Author Posted April 2, 2013 Is the same PLM being used with the 994i? Yes, same PLM. IWhat is the Device Type of 12.EC.D7? (2476S) SwitchLinc Relay W/ Sense v.37 It took two attempts to Query the Insteon Engine of 12.EC.D7 which is an I2 device. Three attempts were made to start to access to the device link database. The device failed to respond to each of the three attempts which is strange since the Show Device Links Table would have done a similar command sequence. Very hard to explain the results with the available information. Has anything changed from when the Show Device Links Table was successful and when the Write Update to Device failed? It is odd too that I can control the devices at will and have not had a single failure (to turn on or off) of any of these devcies. Nothing has changed, though I may have run a query on the device in between them. Tom
LeeG Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 I did some Show Device Links Table testing on a 3.3.10 system. The only difference I can see is the Show does not Query the Insteon Engine type before reading the device link database. The Write Updates to Device does Query the Insteon Engine to be sure it knows how to write the updates. What the Query Insteon Engine has to do with the device not responding to the Set MSB command attempt I have no idea since it would start out with Set MSB command to do the Show Device Links Table. The fact that basic On/Off commands work is not surprising since this does not look like normal communications problem. What are the Device Types of the other devices that have the Red !?
tome Posted April 2, 2013 Author Posted April 2, 2013 What are the Device Types of the other devices that have the Red !? Another SwitchLinc v.37, and OutletLinc v.38, and an Outdoor ApplianceLinc v.41. Tom
LeeG Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 Spread across 3 device types there is something else common. Was the 99i running 3.3.10 from its release or was the 99i updated to 3.3.10 ahead of moving to the 994i
tome Posted April 2, 2013 Author Posted April 2, 2013 Spread across 3 device types there is something else common. Was the 99i running 3.3.10 from its release or was the 99i updated to 3.3.10 ahead of moving to the 994i The 99i has been running 3.3.10 for a while (since it was released). -Tom
tome Posted April 2, 2013 Author Posted April 2, 2013 Could the problem be with the ISY itself or does it seem more like a PLM/powerline issue? The reason I ask is I have another 994i that I could try, that is to eventually go to another location. And if I did try that, should I backup the current config and load it on the new 994i, or should I try loading the config from the 99i? -Tom
LeeG Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 I don't see how the ISY itself could be causing this. The device is not responding to commands that the PLM has accepted and should have sent. Can you run an Event Trace at LEVEL 3, right click the ApplianceLinc with a Red ! and select Write Updates to Device. I assumed all the devices produced the Red ! for the same reason. That assumption is worth verifying.
tome Posted April 2, 2013 Author Posted April 2, 2013 I don't see how the ISY itself could be causing this. The device is not responding to commands that the PLM has accepted and should have sent. Can you run an Event Trace at LEVEL 3, right click the ApplianceLinc with a Red ! and select Write Updates to Device. I assumed all the devices produced the Red ! for the same reason. That assumption is worth verifying. I ran it and now only the SwitchLinc (Artshedlights) has the red !. Below is the Event Log from the ApplianceLinc and the (not working) SwitchLinc (again).
LeeG Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 Actually that is very good news. The others were transient in nature. The ApplianceLinc trace had no actual updates to write. The ISY sent a command to determine link database location, the ApplianceLinc responded as expected. Had the effect of doing a successful Query. This time the SwitchLinc Relay trace does not include the Query Insteon Engine command. The ISY sent the Set MSB command three times and three times the SwitchLinc did not respond. With the Event Trace at LEVEL 3, send some On and Off commands, say three each alternating, and post the trace. This may be more a conventional powerline issue since the other devices are not showing the same symptom. The event trace should provide some information as to the general health of communication with the SwitchLinc.
tome Posted April 2, 2013 Author Posted April 2, 2013 Actually that is very good news. The others were transient in nature. The ApplianceLinc trace had no actual updates to write. The ISY sent a command to determine link database location, the ApplianceLinc responded as expected. Had the effect of doing a successful Query. This time the SwitchLinc Relay trace does not include the Query Insteon Engine command. The ISY sent the Set MSB command three times and three times the SwitchLinc did not respond. With the Event Trace at LEVEL 3, send some On and Off commands, say three each alternating, and post the trace. This may be more a conventional powerline issue since the other devices are not showing the same symptom. The event trace should provide some information as to the general health of communication with the SwitchLinc. That transient lasted a long time (many hours)! Seems odd... Here are the On/Off commands sent to the Switchlinc having problems. I must say, this Switchlinc is at the end of a very long electrical run (perhaps 300ft from the house). On the other hand, it is fed with a beefy cable as it is feeding 240V 60A to a kiln. Also, before upgrading I have never seen this (red exclamation point), nor ever had any problems with that Switchlinc. Tom
LeeG Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 There are problems with it now. The event trace shows no 02 51 responses to any of the On/Off messages. Should look at the SwitchLinc to see if it is physically responding to the commands and the 02 51 response is not making it back or the On/Off messages are not making it to the SwitchLinc.
tome Posted April 2, 2013 Author Posted April 2, 2013 There are problems with it now. The event trace shows no 02 51 responses to any of the On/Off messages. Should look at the SwitchLinc to see if it is physically responding to the commands and the 02 51 response is not making it back or the On/Off messages are not making it to the SwitchLinc. But it is responding! The lights go On and Off.... -Tom
tome Posted April 2, 2013 Author Posted April 2, 2013 I took my cell phone out there with MobiLinc on it. I can turn the lights On/Off without any problem whatsoever. The Switchlinc responds fine: leds go up, leds go down, relay clicks, etc. I switched it many 10s of times over 10 minutes. Meanwhile, the ISY thinks it can't communication with it. And, I have been turning everything else on and off and it all works just fine. Should I think about replacing the SwitchLinc? I guess I could use one as a spare or put it somewhere else...I'm still at a loss... -Tom
LeeG Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 I would put the SwitchLinc on an Appliance cord (plug on one end, bare wires on the other) and plug it into the PLM plug point. Could be a SwitchLinc issue but I always assume Insteon Network issue until proven otherwise. Run the same Event Viewer at LEVEL 3, On/Off test and look for 02 5x entries in the event trace. If no 02 5x entries with the SwitchLinc responding and plugged into the PLM plug point then the SwitchLinc has a problem. I would Factory Reset the SwitchLinc to see if that restores the 02 5x message activity before replacing it. A Restore Device is needed after a Factory Reset.
LeeG Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 I should have put this in the previous post. The SwitchLinc is receiving the commands, reacting to the commands, but either not sending ACKs back that the commands have been received or the Insteon Network is not passing the ACKs to the PLM. The ACKs are the 02 5x inbound messages that are missing. That is why the ISY concludes a communication problem. For most commands sent to a device the device must respond with an ACK or NAK which the PLM sends to the ISY as an 02 5x message. The 02 5x messages are inbound from a device to the PLM. The last posted event trace of On/Off message activity shows outbound commands 02 6x but no inbound 02 5x messages.
tome Posted April 2, 2013 Author Posted April 2, 2013 I would put the SwitchLinc on an Appliance cord (plug on one end, bare wires on the other) and plug it into the PLM plug point. Could be a SwitchLinc issue but I always assume Insteon Network issue until proven otherwise. Run the same Event Viewer at LEVEL 3, On/Off test and look for 02 5x entries in the event trace. If no 02 5x entries with the SwitchLinc responding and plugged into the PLM plug point then the SwitchLinc has a problem. I would Factory Reset the SwitchLinc to see if that restores the 02 5x message activity before replacing it. A Restore Device is needed after a Factory Reset. A factory reset and Restore Device sounds easier than removing it from the wall and wiring it to the PLM. I think I'll try that first Thanks for your help Lee! -Tom
tome Posted April 3, 2013 Author Posted April 3, 2013 A related question to this problem...The SwitchLinc I have in this location is an older (non-dual band) model. If I end up replacing it, would anything be helped by replacing it with a dual-band model since it is a couple hundred feet from the house (and probably 300ft over electrical wire run) or is that a no-op? Tom
Xathros Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 tome- The RF portion would only be useful at the far end. If you have other dual band devices there it may help but it certainly is way out of range to reach the house with RF. I am in a very similar situation with my small barn. It's approx 300' from the main house. I have 2 Togglinc Relays, an Outdoor Appliancelinc and an access point down there. One of the Toggleincs is hit or miss on comms. Everything else is 100% perfect since I added the access point. Not sure why it helped and if there is any value of having the RF down there on a single phase drop. I plan on replacing the misbehaving toggelinc soon and I expect everything will be good down there. I'll move the weak one up to my garage where it will be much closer to the PLM and the rest of the network. I suspect it will do just fine there. -Xathros
tome Posted May 30, 2013 Author Posted May 30, 2013 Well, after nearly two months (yikes) I finally got around to replacing the Switchlinc. I continued to have problems with the same 4 devices, the ISY would always report communications problems with them when I logged into it but it seemed to be able to control them just fine. I bought a dual band Switchlinc (2477S) and installed it this evening. Now all the devices seems to be behaving fine and the ISY isn't complaining anymore. Woohoo!! I guess there is something to be said for the shotgun approach to debugging, as I didn't remove it to test near the PLM. It is interesting/annoying that one (supposedly) bad Switchlinc was causing problems for other devices. I also moved my Access Points to different areas of my house, one now being probably 80-100 feet from the new Switchlinc in the outbuilding. Not sure if that will help, but it can't hurt. Is there a way to tell if it is wirelessly communicating or what it's wireless signal strength is? Thanks, Tom
Michel Kohanim Posted May 30, 2013 Posted May 30, 2013 Hi Tom, thanks so very much for the update. With respect to your last question, unfortunately not. With kind regards, Michel
tome Posted May 30, 2013 Author Posted May 30, 2013 Hi Tom, thanks so very much for the update. With respect to your last question, unfortunately not. With kind regards, Michel Ok, thanks Michel. Doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy that my dual-band devices really are. I am really surprised there isn't any way to know if a device is even communicating wirelessly, yikes!
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