Hum in Cree A19 LED Bulbs and Insteon Dimmer - Is this norma

[TheEther]

Long time listener, first time caller. Ive had an Elk M1 system for a couple years and finally decided to pick up a ISY-994i with a Dimmer to give a it a try. Love it. I am however getting a hum/buzz in the bulb when on at any brightness level. The buzz does change pitch slightly at different brightness levels but its volume never changes. I'm sitting under the lights as I type this and can hear them.

 

I'm assuming the noise is coming from the Insteon 2466DW ToggleLinc Dimmer, I am however curious what can be done about it or if this is normal. The Cree bulbs do not hum when I plug them into a lamp not on the Insteon dimmer.

 

Thanks all!

 

TheEther

[LeeG]

Insteon Dimmers are not generally rated for LEDs. From the ToggleLinc specs "Wired-in incandescent lighting devices". There are folks who are using Cree bulbs on Insteon dimmers so it may be bulb type specific or perhaps even bulb specific. Are there other Cree bulbs that can be tried in that location to see if they all hum?

[apostolakisl]

I have about a dozen of the Cree A19 9.5w 2700k bulbs and all of them are on Insteon dimmers. None of them buzz, at least not loud enough to notice. I am not hearing impaired by the way. I have two each on my mirror sconces in my bathroom mirror and my wife's and every day am only about 2 feet away as I do my morning/evening preening and neither me nor my wife have noticed any humming. Also I have four in a hanging light fixture over the kitchen island, so again I am only a couple feet away from the bulbs and don't hear any buzzing. My other bulbs are all in outside fixtures where I would be less likely to notice a buzz, but still, I haven't noticed one.

 

Have you tried the bulb on other dimmers and/or regular on/off switches?

[TheEther]

I appreciate the quick reply's. I never noticed hum before until I put the insteon dimmer in. They're in two drop-lights above my kitchen bar. I unscrewed one of them and placed it in a lamp and it was completely quiet. It's not terribly noticeable but I notice it. Just trying to get a level set.

[Brian H]

I tried a pair of the 6 watt 40 watt equivalent and 9.5 watt 60 watt equivalent Cree LED Bulbs.

With recent hardware 2477D & 2486DWH6 modules. Also an old 2876DB.

One of the 6 watt ones buzzed slightly. The other three had a extremely low hum.

I may try an additional test by hanging them with the base up. Like in an overhead fixture.

 

I don't think your findings are a problem. Except they may annoy you.

[arw01]

I have a few Cree and a few Phillips and a few Ecosmart. None of them hum on dimmers. I'd exchange the bulb at Home depot myself.

 

Alan

[apostolakisl]

I just put my ear up to my kitchen island cree a19 bulbs. Quiet. That has 4 bulbs on a single Insteon switch. It is about a 3 year old v.38 switch.

 

EDIT: Just put my ear right on the bulb. There is a just barely perceptible high pitched noise. But it is truly just barely perceptible. It can't be heard unless your ear is right on the bulb. It is similar to the sound a ballast makes on a fluorescent light, but very quiet.

[Tunaman]

Are you sure it is a dimmable LED? I have several dimmable LEDs on insteon dinners; all are silent.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[TheEther]

apostolakisl - I believe that is the sound I'm hearing as well but maybe a bit louder than that. Might try your bulb off a dimmer and see if you still hear it. Both of my bulbs do it. When sitting under them I can hear them ~2 feet away.

 

Tunaman - it's dimmable, Here's a link to the bulb I have

 

I just unplugged the other LED light and plugged it into a lamp. The LED was stone silent. The dimmer is definitely inducing something into the LED lights that are causing the hum (which I think is just a shade louder than I'd like it to be). I wonder if I wired my dimmer wrong. The Dimmer is in a triple gang box and had two different common wired groups. I grabbed the easiest one to get to which may not have been the exact one paired with my load and line wires.

 

Thanks for all the replies!

[LeeG]

Not sure using the wrong neutral will have any effect on the Hum but it can be a fire hazard. The neutral is sized based on the max current possible. Running multiple breakers back through the same neutral can overload the neutral. Also if the breakers are on opposite phases and the neutral comes loose there is now 240v in places it was never intended.

[Brian H]

The link in your post is the Cree Bulbs I have also.

Along with its little brother. The 6 watt 40 watt equivalent ones.

Mine hum very slightly on a dimmer.

[apostolakisl]

Do you have another Insteon dimmer you can swap with? Maybe there is something a little off in that dimmer. No doubt mine are not audible at 2 feet, maybe at most 2 inches if you really concentrate. And it doesn't matter how much it is dimmed.

 

And I am damn near 100% sure the wrong neutral won't cause humming. Those neutrals all go to the same block in the breaker box. As far as what Lee said, yes to all that. Of course you aren't in a lot of danger of overloading a wire when you only have 19 watts connected to it.

[TheEther]

Unfortunately I dont have an extra dimmer, but will be making another SH order soon. I ordered the 2466DW ToggleLinc Dimmer and wondering if it's of a lower quality than the more expensive paddle types.

[ELA]

Drop lights and the bulbs themselves are buzzing is that correct?

 

By drop lights does that mean they hang free? If so try holding them firmly to see if the noise gets softer.

 

Insteon dimmers "chop" the waveform severely and that can result in buzzing in devices driven by them depending upon the bulb and its location.

A given bulb may buzz in one application and not in another depending upon how the bulb is held and if a mechanical resonance is possible at that location.

[Brian H]

I did a retest of my 9.5 watt Cree Bulbs.

Used three different off the shelf wall switch dimmers. Two GE and one Radio Shack.

Last night I must have lucked out and selected two that are quieter.

Two of the four uninstalled ones, do hum with any dimmer. Automated {Insteon or X10} or just a off the shelf wall switch dimmer.

So some do hum when not On at 100%.

Not really loud. I can her them maybe at one foot away.

 

The 6 watt smaller ones where all completely quiet.

 

Anyone wanting to see a tear down of the 9.5 watt Crees.

http://www.designingwithleds.com/cree-6 ... tear-down/

[Brian H]

Tested the seven 9.5 watt Cree bulbs I have installed.

Some where quiet. Some hummed on a GE wall switch type dimmer and a Lutron DV600P that is on the Cree LED bulbs tested dimmer list.

Since Cree does not use any potting material around their electronics. I believe the hum is from the coils in the electronics.

Most of the other bulb manufacturers I have seen in tear downs. Use potting material to quiet things down and possibly move heat to their heat sinks. If they are using heat conductive potting material.

 

One of mine has a cracked shell on it. Was OK when installed in an overhead light. That is not totally enclosed and the glass shade was not close to touching it.

 

My thoughts are. Don't screw them in by the shell but use the heat sink to screw them in. As I probably stressed the glass shell.

 

Guess some compromises where made to meet the HD price point.

[widnerm]

Just another data point... I have about 25 A19s all on insteon dimmers. 3 of them hum, the others are quiet. One of these days when I buy some more I'll return and exchange the buzzy ones. Aside from the hum I also wish they'd dim to a lower minimum level before shutting off, but they're still the best overall dimmable LED bulbs I've found.

[Whitehambone]

I have a single 40 watt equivalent CREE LED on a Insteon 2-wire dimmer and it works fine.

 

I have another fixture with 4 - 40 watt equivalent CREE LED on another 2-wire Insteon and the bulbs hum a bit. I also notice that the lights will not stay on if set to 50%. They flash on and off, even if I unscrew three of the bulbs. The only difference is the orientation of the bulbs. The bulbs that are horizontal make noise and flash at 50%. I can't imagine why orientation would cause this. I will have to swap one of the bulbs and see what happens.

 

I also have several other CREE LEDS in other fixtures that are vertical and they don't make any noise.

 

Edit: I found the problem with the 4 bulb fixture. One bulb was causing the flashing.

[Bxsteez]

I have about 9 Cree retrofit recessed lights and they all just started buzzing today.  I have been using an insteon dimmer for months but today they started to buzz.  Any ideas?  Is this an insteon switch issue or do I have to change all my bulbs, which were like 22 bucks each. 

[builderb]

Some of my first Crees were installed on an Insteon 8-button dimmer-controlled switch in the MBR, and they buzzed when the dim level was pretty low. Unfortunately, that coincides with when I generally want quiet. But I put those bulbs out in the living room where lighting levels are higher, got some new bulbs for the bedroom, and it's been fine since.

 

My big complaint now about LEDs is the lack of truly low dim levels. It used to be about color temperature, but that's gotten much better.