Virutal 3-Way scene ramp rates

[smbenson]

I'm new to the isy, but have used insteon products for 4 years. I have several virtual 3-way circuits set up and operating normally without the isy. I added the devices to isy via the address (start linking has not worked correctly for some reason) and created scenes for each circuit setting both switchlincs to controllers. Now I have changed the ramp rates for each device, the scene, and each device in the scene. From the computer the ramp rates work fine. Using the master switch (wired to the load) the ramp rate will work correctly, but from the slave (virtual) switch the ramp rates don't change.

 

It seems like this configuration is correct and should work. Am I missing something?

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[LeeG]

An ISY Scene consists of one or more Insteon Scenes. Each Controller in an ISY Scene represents one Insteon Scene with its own unique set of Responder On Level and Responder Ramp Rate values. Click on the Red slave SwitchLinc node name below the ISY Scene name. The other SwitchLinc (the master) will have a unique On Level and Ramp rate that is in effect when the slave paddle is pressed.

[smbenson]

All the ramp rates are set to 2 sec. Master/Slave in the device list, in the scene, and each of the the master/slave switches under the scene.

 

I have 4 such circuits set up the same way and they all do the same thing. The master (load) switch will follow the ramp rate when pressed. The slave switch will only do fast on/off. When the scene is activated from the isy web interface it will also follow the ramp rates.

[LeeG]

The Slave SwitchLinc paddle will only turn On the Master SwitchLinc with Fast On?

 

OR

 

The Master SwitchLinc paddle will only turn On the Slave Switchlinc with Fast On?

[Xathros]

Maybe it is set with a REALLLLLLY long ramp rate?

 

-Xathros

[LeeG]

Right click a SwitchLinc node, select Diagnostics | Show Device Links Table. Post the image.

 

Do the same thing for the other SwitchLinc

 

Identify the Insteon addresses of each SwitchLinc and whether it is the Master or the Slave.

 

Were the existing Set button links created before using the ISY maintained when the devices were added to the ISY or was the default option used 'erase existing links'?

[apostolakisl]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by fast on. I think you mean that it is ramping up at the .1 second rate rather than actually being a "double tap" fast on.

 

To set up a simple virtual 3 way where all the switches do the same thing.

 

1) Create a scene by clicking "link management" then "new scene"

2) Add the switches. Right click the switch in the main tree on the left and click "add to scene" then use the list of scene names and click on it. Check the box to make it a controller. You can also drag and drop it. Repeat for all switches in scene.

3) Click on the scene in the left column tree.

4) In the right pane in the middle, click "apply changes to all devices"

5) Slide the ramp rate and on level to where you want them.

6) Click on the individual devices under the scene name in the tree on the left.

7) For each device click in the right pane in the middle "copy scene attributes from. . "

 

The 2 key steps are step 4 and step 7.

 

Step 4 makes all the switches respond to the scene command the same. No matter what activates the scene, all the devices will do the same thing (except the switch you actually pushed, it may or may not respond the same, see next step). Obviously, don't click this if you want some switches to do different things.

 

Step 7 makes each switch respond the same as the scene when you physically push on THAT SWITCH. When you physically push a switch, it responds to "applied locally" attributes, not per any scene it may be a part of. Again, don't click that button if you want the button to behave differently when you physically push it vs when it responds to a scene.

 

Trying to break it down, if a switch is a controller, when you push that switch, it does 2 things, it sends out a scene command and it does its own local thing. The scene command is heard by all switches and if the switch recognizes the scene name, it responds. If not, it ignores it. Pushing a switch will always make that switch do what it is programmed to do when pushed locally, any behavior it has related to any scenes is irrelevant. While this may seem complex, it is what makes the Insteon network so uniquely programmable. You can have things behave very differently depending on your desires.

[Xathros]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by fast on. I think you mean that it is ramping up at the .1 second rate rather than actually being a "double tap" fast on.

 

To set up a simple virtual 3 way where all the switches do the same thing.

 

1) Create a scene by clicking "link management" then "new scene"

2) Add the switches. Right click the switch in the main tree on the left and click "add to scene" then use the list of scene names and click on it. Check the box to make it a controller. You can also drag and drop it. Repeat for all switches in scene.

3) Click on the scene in the left column tree.

4) In the right pane in the middle, click "apply changes to all devices"

5) Slide the ramp rate and on level to where you want them.

6) Click on the individual devices under the scene name in the tree on the left.

7) For each device click in the right pane in the middle "copy scene attributes from. . "

 

The 2 key steps are step 4 and step 7.

 

Step 4 makes all the switches respond to the scene command the same. No matter what activates the scene, all the devices will do the same thing (except the switch you actually pushed, it may or may not respond the same, see next step). Obviously, don't click this if you want some switches to do different things.

 

Step 7 makes each switch respond the same as the scene when you physically push on THAT SWITCH. When you physically push a switch, it responds to "applied locally" attributes, not per any scene it may be a part of. Again, don't click that button if you want the button to behave differently when you physically push it vs when it responds to a scene.

 

Trying to break it down, if a switch is a controller, when you push that switch, it does 2 things, it sends out a scene command and it does its own local thing. The scene command is heard by all switches and if the switch recognizes the scene name, it responds. If not, it ignores it. Pushing a switch will always make that switch do what it is programmed to do when pushed locally, any behavior it has related to any scenes is irrelevant. While this may seem complex, it is what makes the Insteon network so uniquely programmable. You can have things behave very differently depending on your desires.

 

That is by far the best description of how that works that I have seen so far. Nice job!

 

-Xathros

[smbenson]

Thanks for the detailed procedure. For my situation I changed the ramp rate from 2 sec to 4.5 sec using your procedure. On the ISY admin page I look at the device list and find my two switches, master and slave - both set at 4.5. The scene has the same ramp rate of 4.5 along with both switches in the scene (using the procedure above of copy).

 

If I activate the scene from the computer it works with a ramp rate of 4.5 sec. If I push the master switch it also does the ramp rate of 4.5 sec. If I push the slave switch is does the standard ramp rate of .1 even though everything shown says 4.5.

 

For this particular switch combination, I added it to the ISY via the master switch device address (I can't get start linking to work properly) but in this case I added the address and chose option to add related devices (switches linked together switch to switch in a virtual 3-way) but to remove existing links. I was thinking that this would remove the hard link switch to switch and have the ISY create new links via the scene.

 

Maybe my problem is that these switches were linked together using the standard insteon linking and this link was not removed.

 

Also along the same lines, what is the priority for operations - ie local first, scene second. Even though the ISY device list the local action is to use a ramp rate of 4.5 can it still be programmed locally from the original set up as an virtual 3-way linked switch to switch with the standard ramp rate set?

 

Thanks.

[LeeG]

Local On Level and Local Ramp Rate affect the device where the paddle is pressed.

 

When the Slave SwitchLinc paddle is pressed On the Local On Level and Local Ramp Rate affect how the Slave SwitchLinc reacts. How the Master SwitchLinc reacts to the Slave SwitchLinc paddle On press is based on what is in the Responder Link Record for On Level and Ramp Rate stored in the Master SwitchLinc link database.

 

I suspect for whatever the reason there is a Responder link record in the Master SwitchLinc left over from the manual Set button linking. Defining a new ISY Scene creates new link records which are later in the Master SwitchLinc link database. The Master SwitchLinc searches its link database for a record that matches the Slave SwitchLinc Insteon address when the Slave SwitchLinc paddle is pressed. I think it finds the old Set button link record and stops the search at that point.

 

The Show Device Links Table would confirm this. A Show Device Links Table can be issued for the Master SwitchLinc followed by a click of the Compare button to compare what is actually in the device versus what the ISY thinks should be there.

[apostolakisl]

How old are your switches? Some older switches require a power cycle when re-programmed. Try pulling the disconnect tab for 10 seconds and then popping it back in (don't hold it in or you will factory reset the switch. .. which may be the next step in fixing your issue anyway).

[smbenson]

Thanks again for all the help. The local switch resets did the trick.

[LeeG]

Another user found Start Linking did not work (New INSTEON Device does work) due to a bad PLM. Take a look at the following topic as it may help in identifying if your PLM has a problem.

 

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11969