Crosslinking

[dpaget21]

I have a question regarding crosslinking. I have made both devices controllers of a scene which works locally but when I adjust the device via Console or app the corresponding devices doesn't respond correctly.

[LeeG]

Devices that have been cross-linked still respond individually when Direct commands are used. Insteon is designed to work that way. When both (all) devices should react together turn the Scene On/Off with the Admin Console, ISY Program, or App. When only an individual device should respond use a Direct command.

[rlanza1054]

Hi,

 

I am just starting out and did not want to start a new thread.

 

I have 3 Keypadlinc's.

 

But to keep this simple I just want to deal with one particular Keypadlinc.

 

So I have a Keypadlinc setup as 8 button.

 

With any controller to properly setup the buttons so they light up correctly from either using a button on the Keypadlinc or the switch itself, you crosslink them.

 

In the end the assigned Keypadlinc button should light up whether the device is activated at the switch or the Keypadlinc or even anything else that turns the device on.

 

To crosslink manually, you press the set button on the Keypadlinc and the button you want assigned (until it flashes to let you know its in linking mode) and then press the device's set button until it flashes. Its now linked from the Keypadlinc to the switch, the Keypadlinc is the controller.

 

Just doing this, the switch is not really crosslinked, so if you turn the device on from the actual switch, the LED on the assigned button on Keypadlinc will NOT light up. Its a simple one way link.

 

Now to get the real full crosslinking done, you now need to press the set button at the device until it flashes and then tap the set button and the assigned button on the Keypadlinc just until it flashes to acknowledge it took.

 

So now you have true crosslinking, both are considered 'controllers'.

 

If I have this all correct, here is my question when setting up crosslinking (crosslinking is not really explained in the documentation of the ISY) using the ISY994:

 

Should you setup crosslinking using one scene or two scenes. What is the proper method or maybe it doesn't matter and both (which I will explain) are OK to use.

 

Method One: Is to create one scence and when adding the device, ISY will ask you if its going to be a 'controller or a responder', You say 'controller'!

 

Then you add to the same scence the Keypadlinc and when it asks you the question of 'controller or a responder', You say 'controller' as well.

 

So they are both controllers.

 

Method Two: Is to create two scenes, the first scene you would add the device and allow that to be the 'responder' and when you add the Keypadlinc button you make that the 'controller'.

 

Then you create the second scene and you add the device and allow that to be the 'controller' this time and the Keypadlinc button you make the responder'

 

 

Method One, they are set as both controllers in the same scene

 

Method Two, They each get assigned as controller and responder but each in two different scenes.

 

Which is the proper method to use.  Or are both methods equally ok to use. One or the other! And of course, only setup method one  or method two, don't use both.

 

Maybe both can be use but one method might provide more flexibility over the oher method?

 

This is what I'm try to find out to complete my setup of these Keypadlinc. I want it to be correct.

 

Thank you.

 

Rob

Edited August 18, 2015 by rlanza1054

[paulbates]

I have (3) 8 button keypads that control related devices. the top four buttons on each keypad control the exact same devices.  In the case of the A button, all three control outside lights. They are all controllers (they are red when controller / responders, blue when responder only)

 

I use method one. 

 

 

The advantages are that there is one scene that keeps the keypad buttons and outside light switches synced. The motion sensor also turns them all on.

 

Also, use the ISY to create scenes to do the linking, on shown on my admin screen. Then there is nothing to do at the switches themselves ( you do have to press the set button for battery only devices like motion sensors, but not the keypads)

 

Page 21 of the manual describes setting these up. Crosslinking is the same as the device being Red and a controller/responder. I

 

Does this help answer what you're looking for?

 

Paul

Edited August 18, 2015 by paulbates

[rlanza1054]

I have (3) 8 button keypads that control related devices. the top four buttons on each keypad control the exact same devices.  In the case of the A button, all three control outside lights. They are all controllers (they are red when controller / responders, blue when responder only)

 

I use method one. 

 

Capture.JPG

 

The advantages are that there is one scene that keeps the keypad buttons and outside light switches synced. The motion sensor also turns them all on.

 

Also, use the ISY to create scenes to do the linking, on shown on my admin screen. Then there is nothing to do at the switches themselves ( you do have to press the set button for battery only devices like motion sensors, but not the keypads)

 

Page 21 of the manual describes setting these up. Crosslinking is the same as the device being Red and a controller/responder. I

 

Does this help answer what you're looking for?

 

Paul

Yes, thank you!

 

I did indeed use method one, its simple to do.

 

But I can see a reason in some circumstances to use method two, using two scenes to link each to the other.

 

I did find that whejn bhuilding a program, that I had to use a scene, not the device itself to either turn on a device or turn a device off, beacuse a scene is able to turn on the LED's correctly and in sync.

 

If I turn on write a program to turn on a device using the actual device, if that device is crosslinked to a Keypadlnc, the LED on the Keypadlinc does not light up with the device's LED. I thought that was strange, one would think it they were crosslinked the LED's on both the devicfe and the Keypadlinc would remainj sync'd but apparently that's not the case, as I discovered the hard way.

 

Thanks again!

 

Rob

[paulbates]

Rob-  Right, what you described is the way Insteon behaves: (building on what Lee said above)

• The ISY turning on a scene will turn on all participants that can respond (eg a switch can but not a motion sensor)
• A hard key press at a device with a scene assigned to it will turn on all devices in the scene
• Turning on a device from the ISY does not activate a scene assigned to it. The devices in the scene don't go on. I don't know of a way around this one.

In general in lighting involving multiple switches, scenes are the way to go. They create virtual circuits and work together like one switch, and Insteon does the work.

 

Paul

Edited August 21, 2015 by paulbates

[stusviews]

Rob,

 

When you control a scene, all scene members respond. When you control a device, only that device responds, not any of the devices linked as responders. To do otherwise could create an infinite loop. Here's how:

 

The most common cross-linking/scene is between two switches, A & B, in a virtual 3-way configuration. If I turn on A, B turns on as expected and the signal stops. But suppose any time a device received a signal that device would turn on its responder links.

 

Then A would turn on B, but when B received an on, then it would turn on A which would turn on B which ...

[rlanza1054]

Rob,

 

When you control a scene, all scene members respond. When you control a device, only that device responds, not any of the devices linked as responders. To do otherwise could create an infinite loop. Here's how:

 

The most common cross-linking/scene is between two switches, A & B, in a virtual 3-way configuration. If I turn on A, B turns on as expected and the signal stops. But suppose any time a device received a signal that device would turn on its responder links.

 

Then A would turn on B, but when B received an on, then it would turn on A which would turn on B which ...

That's why I originally asked for the proper way to set up the crosslinking between two devices.

 

Even though it works as it should, I was afraid at first to make two different devices the controller of each other. Like you said if A turns on B (A is controller) and if B turns on A (B is the controller). That should create the loop you taked about, but it doesn't?

 

I have device A turn on device B (A is the controller of , but I have B a controller of A to make sure the LED is in sync with the LED of B (A just happens to be a button on a Keypadlinc).

 

I used a scene and is only in one scene where when I added the devices they were set as both controllers.

 

So way does this end up being not a loop?

 

I am glad its not and is working as it should.

 

Rob

 

But tha

[larryllix]

That's why I originally asked for the proper way to set up the crosslinking between two devices.

 

Even though it works as it should, I was afraid at first to make two different devices the controller of each other. Like you said if A turns on B (A is controller) and if B turns on A (B is the controller). That should create the loop you taked about, but it doesn't?

 

I have device A turn on device B (A is the controller of , but I have B a controller of A to make sure the LED is in sync with the LED of B (A just happens to be a button on a Keypadlinc).

 

I used a scene and is only in one scene where when I added the devices they were set as both controllers.

 

So way does this end up being not a loop?

 

I am glad its not and is working as it should.

 

Rob

 

But tha

Devices do not send out Insteon commands when they receive a command from another device, only when they get operated themselves, usually by a human or other sensory input. Thus no infinite loop.

 

Note Stu posted "suppose". He was talking hypothetical. He's tricky that way

Edited August 22, 2015 by larryllix

[rlanza1054]

Thanks that make perfect sense!