Scottmichaelj Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 I am wondering if anyone is using LED strips for under cabinet lighting or to light inside cabinets/displays? I am looking for LED strip lights in daylight 5000K that I can directly control with my Insteon keypads to dim, etc. Everything I have seen so far requires a transformer with its own controls. I have a few areas where these new LED tape lights would be nice to have glow softly on counters and walkways. I was wondering who else may have done this. Thanks in advance for the info. I would hate to go back to halogens!
andrew77 Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 I'm not sure if this helps but I have a hutch that used to have the type of control where you touch the designated hinge and the lighting inside would turn on 33%, next touch 66%, next touch 100%, next touch off. I opened the control box and hardwired it (solder, heated shrink wrap, etc…) and plugged it directly into a lamplinc. It's now controlled by a KPL button. (P.S. had an electrician friend eyeball my frankenstein job to make sure I didn't do anything wrong.)
oberkc Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 there are lots of LED undercabinet light options that plug straight into normal outlets or can be hardwired. There is no need to go back to halogen, other than because of preference. Besides, halogen do not give off light at the 5000K range.
arw01 Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 From reading all over the place, what you are after is a LED power supply that can handle a trailing dimmer. Meanwell has a couple in the states now, I just have not ordered them yet to test them out. There is a large curio that shows in the TV that I would like to have a dimmer on to bring it down a ways when no one is walking through the room, but like to leave them on as it makes a nice night light. Jameco I think finally had them in stock at $22.00 or so. They gave me a part number of 2141106.
MWareman Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 there are lots of LED undercabinet light options that plug straight into normal outlets or can be hardwired. There is no need to go back to halogen, other than because of preference. Besides, halogen do not give off light at the 5000K range. My issue is I want dimmable, and 3700k-ish. I cannot seem to find that available. (Or rather 'my wife demands' would be more accurate..)
stillen_i30 Posted December 2, 2013 Posted December 2, 2013 I have two large LED strip light sets. For one, I recently hooked it up to a lamplinc dimmer module (only one I had sitting around) in my office. When the office main light is turned on, this LED set also turns on. It will not dim up or down due to presence of brick transformer. I have not seen one that dims from the power source. My lamplinc is set to "fast on" for the LED set.
Scottmichaelj Posted December 2, 2013 Author Posted December 2, 2013 there are lots of LED undercabinet light options that plug straight into normal outlets or can be hardwired. There is no need to go back to halogen, other than because of preference. Besides, halogen do not give off light at the 5000K range. Do you have any links or product names/numbers for ones that I can look at? From reading all over the place, what you are after is a LED power supply that can handle a trailing dimmer. Meanwell has a couple in the states now, I just have not ordered them yet to test them out. There is a large curio that shows in the TV that I would like to have a dimmer on to bring it down a ways when no one is walking through the room, but like to leave them on as it makes a nice night light. Jameco I think finally had them in stock at $22.00 or so. They gave me a part number of 2141106. Thanks. I looked it up and its just the transformer. I am wondering what is on the end of it for the connection/connector and what strips would be compatible with them? Again 5000K and if you can use a LampLinc to dim it. I have two large LED strip light sets. For one, I recently hooked it up to a lamplinc dimmer module (only one I had sitting around) in my office. When the office main light is turned on, this LED set also turns on. It will not dim up or down due to presence of brick transformer. I have not seen one that dims from the power source. My lamplinc is set to "fast on" for the LED set. This is what I am seeing from most sellers. Nondimmable LED strips or they are dimmable but you need to physically touch the dimmer module on them to do so, which defeats the purpose. I would like to be able to control it via remote and scenes.
oronomus Posted December 2, 2013 Posted December 2, 2013 Research this from Kichler. They say: "Now dimmable, Kichler’s Design Pro direct-wire LED under cabinet lighting features a 1-inch thin profile and considerable energy savings. It lasts 40,000 hours (four times longer than xenon or fluorescent.)" and "Soft white color: 3000°K correlated color temperature." http://www.environmentallights.com/13227-12057wh.html
Scottmichaelj Posted December 3, 2013 Author Posted December 3, 2013 Research this from Kichler. They say: "Now dimmable, Kichler’s Design Pro direct-wire LED under cabinet lighting features a 1-inch thin profile and considerable energy savings. It lasts 40,000 hours (four times longer than xenon or fluorescent.)" and "Soft white color: 3000°K correlated color temperature." http://www.environmentallights.com/13227-12057wh.html Thanks for posting the links. Others maybe interested in them. I am still looking for LED Strips that are small and thin that you could put anywhere in 5000K. I found a site http://www.hitlights.com/ that looks to have what I am looking for. From what I can tell I will need to get a power cord, then their Dimmable 12V LED Driver, then you need a connection from the driver to the SMD LED Strip (which has a 3M sticky backing). The "cool white" there is 6000K which will work fine for me. Off to do more research on this and then Ill probably place an order to try them out. I wish the drivers weren't so pricey and they look big. Too bad there isnt a wall wart direct to LED strip, but I understand it needs to reduce the power from 110V (US) to 12V for the LEDs otherwise it would blow them out.
Scottmichaelj Posted August 31, 2015 Author Posted August 31, 2015 Anyone have any updates/progress/information on this? Its now moved up to a priority in my "To Do" list.
larryllix Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 Forget the sticky backing. You need the silicone clamps. Once the LEDs are on for 30 minutes they fall off when the sticky backing get warm. RGB LED strips do not produce white light period and not bright enough to do counter work. The LED strips I have are RGNW and the white is almost useless as it is so purple you can't call it white. The latest LED strips I got are RGBWW and they produce a beautiful white and very bright. The MiLight controller with RGBW or RGBWW strips and bulbs produce identical colours for the same codes except the white as noted above. MiLight / LimitlessLED controllers cannot produce white and RGB colours at the same time. The LED strips can produce all colours with beautiful depth and richness but Hue bulbs are lacking green and blue capability. However Hue bulbs fade slowly and can produce pastels colours whereas MiLight controllers can't. They all take a bridge/hub to convert Ethernet to proprietary2.4GHz RF. MiLight hub is WiFi input and Hue is Hardwired Ethernet. LED strips take a controller wired to a 5 pin socket to connect to pre-terminated RGBW strips. A connector is provided at each end of the 5m strips so you can cut them at 122 cut spots and use them as two prewired pieces. 12v 3-5amp power supplies are required with the 2. x 5.5mm plug on the end or two wires for the terminals, your choice for each section. The ISY Network Module can control the Hubs for either Hue or MiLight hubs easily. MiLight Hubs can only handle four groups with as many controllers as desired in each group. Al bulbs and/or strips within a group will all respond to the same color and brightness. I use two MiLight Hubs for 8 groups with 9 sections. One shares two lamps. I ran out of hubs and don't want more.. Hope that helps some of the purchase confusion.
Scottmichaelj Posted September 1, 2015 Author Posted September 1, 2015 Hope that helps some of the purchase confusion. Larry thanks for this info however I am looking for actual LED strips in 5K WHITE for not only under cabinet lights but toe kick areas as well that can be controlled by Insteon & ISY. The Hue and MiLights are all Bulbs and puck lights.
arw01 Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 LEDs vary greatly from suppliers. I do animated Christmas lights to music and have learned a few places where LEDS are high quality from. you get what you pay for. The meanwell is wired after your dimmer and then is the power supply for the leds. I bought mine for $25 or so, but have not made it back to that project. What I would like to find for the wife's scrapbook room LED under cabinet lights is a really cool on off switch she can use at the cabinets.
Scottmichaelj Posted September 1, 2015 Author Posted September 1, 2015 LEDs vary greatly from suppliers. I do animated Christmas lights to music and have learned a few places where LEDS are high quality from. you get what you pay for. The meanwell is wired after your dimmer and then is the power supply for the leds. I bought mine for $25 or so, but have not made it back to that project. What I would like to find for the wife's scrapbook room LED under cabinet lights is a really cool on off switch she can use at the cabinets. Did the MeanWell work for you? Can you post the model number for the power supply and LEDs? I don't mind paying for quality stuff. Nothing I have found so far will allow me to use a lamplinc to control/dim before the power supply/transformer. Everything I found needs the dimmer to be after the transformer and before the LEDs after its converted from 120V to 12V. What am I missing here? For example the MeanWell PWM-120 looks like it would work but then you look at the installation manual and the dimmer is after the power supply. Am I overthinking this and being dense? Is it really this hard?
larryllix Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Larry thanks for this info however I am looking for actual LED strips in 5K WHITE for not only under cabinet lights but toe kick areas as well that can be controlled by Insteon & ISY. The Hue and MiLights are all Bulbs and puck lights. The LED strips I was referring to were these ones. There are no puck lights. http://stores.ebay.com/dealdelight-store/3528-SMD-LED-Strip-/_i.html?_fsub=4530091016 The bulbs in two brands were also mentioned for comparison. I understood you wanted colour capability also. I now understand you only want single colour 5000K white. My mistake. I have only heard of LED strips that can produce warm while and cool white at 3000K and 6500-8000K. The 5000K sounds like a nice colour for a work surface if you can find one.. Here is a 6000-6500K strip. These things are plenty bright with the 120 LEDs per metre making 24w per the 5m strip. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-Sale-5M-3528-SMD-600-Leds-White-Color-Flexible-Strip-Light-IP65-Waterproof-/281173373025?hash=item41773d3061 Edited September 2, 2015 by larryllix
Scottmichaelj Posted October 29, 2015 Author Posted October 29, 2015 So I ordered some direct plugin 120V LED Strips and when plugged into a LampLinc (newer version 2457D2) when turned "off" the LED strip still produces a dim light and is not all the way turned off. If I plug the LED strip into a 2477D or KPL switched plug then it will turn all the way off. Seems like the Lamplincs are not shutting all the way OFF leaving some power behind just enough to light the strip. Also the Appliancelinc doesnt have this issue either. Anyone else see this before? Are my Lamplincs bad? Should I call Smarthome about this?
paulbates Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) This is common/by design. There is about 2 watts traveling through the Insteon *dimming* powerline module when off. My LED Christmas tree did this on X10 and Insteon the same way, Edited October 29, 2015 by paulbates
Scottmichaelj Posted October 29, 2015 Author Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) This is common/by design. There is about 2 watts traveling through the Insteon powerline module when off. My LED Christmas tree did this on X10 and Insteon the same way, Thats what I thought. Dang it. I really need to use a Lamplinc and was trying to go cheaper than the Philips Hue since I only need single cool white dimmable. Thats why I went with a 120v LED direct plugin vs the 120v to 12v route. Plus you seem to lose dimming ability. Back to the drawing board. This seems too hard than it has to be. Guess its because I am trying to be cheap. Edit: my bad grammar and spelling Edited October 29, 2015 by huddadudda
Brian H Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) Try putting a power cube on the output and add a small 4 watt old fashioned incandescent night light bulb. That should be enough to swamp the sensing current. That is what the X10 users did and it works just as well for the small sensing current from Insteon modules. Edited October 29, 2015 by Brian H
paulbates Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 Forgot about that Brian. Maybe a couple 2amp phone chargers?
Scottmichaelj Posted October 29, 2015 Author Posted October 29, 2015 After playing with them they are not bright enough so I have to figure out something else. I bought some of the Philips Hue Lightstrips Plus and they are super bright and do work well except for the issue is if you turn off the light switch they revert back to the default color setting (Warm White). For whatever reason they dont retain the last color in memory. How dumb is that? Not sure I will kept those either! Dang! Back to the drawing board...what a PITA!
larryllix Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) After playing with them they are not bright enough so I have to figure out something else. I bought some of the Philips Hue Lightstrips Plus and they are super bright and do work well except for the issue is if you turn off the light switch they revert back to the default color setting (Warm White). For whatever reason they dont retain the last color in memory. How dumb is that? Not sure I will kept those either! Dang! Back to the drawing board...what a PITA! The MiLight strip controllers remember their colour and brightness settings. No need to include complex network resources in your ISY initialisation to turn them off while you are on vacation. With the MiLight controllers just don't get cool white RGBW strips. Get the RGBWW, 5050 strips because you cannot adjust the white temperature or mix in RBG with the white. The Warm white is about 3000K and a really nice working pure bright white. I got thinking about the whole Hue bulbs and they seem to be trying to accomplish their feats without using a white LED and only three LEDs. This resulted in no green whatsoever, very poor blue, indigo instead, and the white must have a very poor CRI of about 40-50 at best. Most of the colour spectrum would be missing without using broad spectrum LEDs for white bulbs. hmmmmm...I wonder where I can get a colour wheel to test this on my Hue bulbs to see how many different colours are MIA. Edited October 29, 2015 by larryllix
MustangChris04 Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 I recently changed all my under cabinet lighting to LEDs and it was pretty easy. I mounted them all inside a metal LED channel and spliced the LEDs into a transformer. The transformers were wired to an Insteon switch that controlled the lighting. I also added additional LEDs at the top of my cabinets to shine upwards where the crown molding is. I tapped into the power for my microwave, and used a ON/OFF lamplinc to turn the transformers on and off. I also used the same concept and added LED lighting to my friend's dock: http://screencast.com/t/6bnwrhp8g I used waterproof 5050 LEDs available here: http://www.lightingever.com/12v-led-strip-light-waterproof-150-5050-5m-ww.html (they also sell on amazon for a little more) The color temp is 3000k. I think it may be more towards 4000k. After playing around with a bunch of different transformers, I found the Meanwell ones to be the best and most reliable: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IO1W38E?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage The strips uses about 2.2 watts a foot, so you estimate your length and get a transformer that has a slightly higher wattage. You can cut the strips ever 3 inches, the maximum length of a single strip is 5m. I then mounted the LED strips inside a metal channel with a frosted lens from Klus Design: http://www.klusdesign.com/products/led-extrusions They have all different kinds of channels you can use depending on how you want to mount the LEDs.
larryllix Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 I used the silicone straps with #4 screws. I was using the stick down 5050 strips but the adhesive is a waste of time as once the strips gets warm it lets go.
Scottmichaelj Posted November 3, 2015 Author Posted November 3, 2015 (edited) Try putting a power cube on the output and add a small 4 watt old fashioned incandescent night light bulb. That should be enough to swamp the sensing current. That is what the X10 users did and it works just as well for the small sensing current from Insteon modules. Forgot about that Brian. Maybe a couple 2amp phone chargers? Thanks guys for the info, that worked! I never heard/read that before but I plugged an "Y" electrical cord splitter into the LampLinc and then on one side put the LED strip and on the other plug put a 4.5V DC 1000mA power adapter from an old project and wa-la it worked. When I unplugged the power adapter the LEDS then turned back on dimly even when the LampLinc was off, plugged the power adapter back in and the LEDS turned off. So add a power adapter is the key. I also called Philips Hue support and confirmed without using the app you cannot turn the Hue Lightstrips or Bulbs (even with the new "plus" and v2 hub) back to the last "color" it always will default to the warm white, which doesn't work for me, I need daylight/cool white. That being said I still am trying different things out. I rather not have a separate hub, network whatever to control my LED strips. I am trying to go 100% Insteon/ISY. I then mounted the LED strips inside a metal channel with a frosted lens from Klus Design: http://www.klusdesign.com/products/led-extrusions They have all different kinds of channels you can use depending on how you want to mount the LEDs. These are really nice, thanks for posting the link. My countertops are white so the LEDS shine down on them and you can see each LED bulb on the counter. Grabbing a frosted channel to put the LED strip in maybe the perfect solution to stop that and still have a nice task lighting. Edited November 3, 2015 by huddadudda
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