madcodger Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Have an aggravating little problem I'm hoping we can solve... I have a Insteon KPL Button (8 button KPL) set up as a controller for a Switchlinc relay one floor below. The Switchlinc is for fluorescent lights in a basement office. The controller (KPL) works perfectly for turning the lights on, but won't turn them off. Could it be interference from the fluorescents? I can't say that I notice other problems in the 40+ device network when those lights are on, but the SWL Relay controlling them sure is an issue. Have others seen this? If so, any suggestions on filtering these fluorescents? I just installed new ballasts and bulbs to see if that helped, but it did not. Is an inline filter for the load side even available? Ideas welcome and appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apostolakisl Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 That sure sounds like noise from the lights. Try a query of the device from the ISY GUI and see if it communicates when the lights are on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvisimprsntr Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 The controller (KPL) works perfectly for turning the lights on, but won't turn them off. Could it be interference from the fluorescents? Dumb question, but did you set the KPL button(s) toggle mode to toggle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcodger Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 Will query again but seem to recall a failure last week. I also think it's noise from the lights but I'm surprised as I've never had a problem with fluorescents in the past as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcodger Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 The controller (KPL) works perfectly for turning the lights on, but won't turn them off. Could it be interference from the fluorescents? Dumb question, but did you set the KPL button(s) toggle mode to toggle? Actually a pretty important thing to check! But yes, all buttons on this KPL are set to toggle as it's used only as a "control point". Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oberkc Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I've never had a problem with fluorescents My perception is that these types of lights can degrade over time, causing problems now where there were none before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyMike Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Hello Madcodger, Is this a new install or and old install that just became unreliable? I agree that the fluorescents could be generating noise, but think it's more likely that they are loading the circuit. Since you have multiple ballasts on this circuit you may be pulling the Insteon signal down to where it is unreliable. Finding a wire in filter is becoming a problem. Leviton had made a small 6287 wire in filter that would block noise/isolate heavy loads. I have not seen these in some time. They are 5 A rated - not sure if that is enough for your install. A quick search of currently available wire in filters turned up the following: http://www.smarthome.com/22956/Simply-Automated-ZNF10A-W-Noise-Filter-and-Attenuation-Isolator-Wired/p.aspx It's big and clunky, but it can handle 10A. Since it's designed for UPB filtering, it attenuates everything from 4 KHz up. For your application, it would be like hitting a mosquito with a sledge hammer. If your problem is signal loading, you may find that you don't need the capacitor (use the inductor only for isolation). If you are into fabrication, you can also find torroid inductors and caps on Mouser/Newark. You would need to size these for your load and figure out how to package them in a "safe" manner. Prior to diving into the hardware, I would try relocating a Accesspoint near the SWL to improve the signal strength. You may find that re-organizing your current devices can make this branch reliable. You might also consider a dual band SWL. I have not been a huge fan of the db devices in the past. I recently performed some tests where I intentionally jammed the powerline with 130 KHz noise. A db SWL was able to operate with the jamming while other devices failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcodger Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 Oberkc - Good thought, but ballasts and bulbs just replaced in an effort to fix this. But you're right, that's a good thing to check. IndyMike - Very good info and suggestions. It's actually difficult for me to pinpoint when this started. I traded offices with my wife in Sept. and my new office is where the fluorescents are located. I (try to) use the KPL on the floor above to turn these lights off, whereas she always used the switch below. So I noticed it in Oct, but have been too busy to deal with it. It may been going on for 3 years, the length of time we've owned the house. The switch just happens to sit within 10 or 12 feet of two access points. I've always run this network with two APs (each on different leg of the panel) plugged into two outlets about three feet apart. Has made communications very solid (except for this switch). The DB SWL may be my next move. i think I have two new ones sitting in a SH order from last week I just happened to buy for something else. I could move the existing switch to that project and install the DB there. I've been fairly impressed by them to date, although this house has had overall good Insteon comms. The 5A filter would work also work as these lights are only 240W total (6 40w fluorescents total), or 2A. Even with a healthy safety margin, that would be fine and might be the ultimate solution. I don't mind building something, but time is the problem, of course. NEVER enough of it. Thanks again - will keep all posted... Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apostolakisl Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 If you want to know before you bother filtering if it is noise/sucking then do the following. Open your switch box and unhook the load wire from the Insteon switch but leave the power and neutral connected. Now do all of your on/off stuff that didn't work before. If the switch behaves properly (obviously the light won't turn on), then you know that the fluorescent light was the problem. At this point you need to filter between the load and the switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcodger Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 If you want to know before you bother filtering if it is noise/sucking then do the following. Open your switch box and unhook the load wire from the Insteon switch but leave the power and neutral connected. Now do all of your on/off stuff that didn't work before. If the switch behaves properly (obviously the light won't turn on), then you know that the fluorescent light was the problem. At this point you need to filter between the load and the switch. Smart! Now need time to do it. Long days finishing work before year end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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