PittCaleb Posted May 20, 2014 Posted May 20, 2014 Just wanted to say "thanks" to those who participated in this thread, especially @KMan When I started down the path of Home Automation - from research a year ago to first switch purchase 2 months ago - monitoring my garage door was my #1 priority. I went at HA slowly, didn't realize my HouseLinc step for learning didn't provide the functionality I needed for this door check. With my ISY up and running, my garage is now monitored. My wife & I both get an email if the door has been open for > 15 minutes. Could be working out back, so don't want an auto-close. I can't tell you the number of times I drive around the block wondering if I in fact shut the door. I do have one fear however - I tested it with "2 minutes" and all was good. I set the timer up to 15, kicked it off - and it didn't work. The garage lights never turned on (set to auto-on upon opening), the sensor was still in the "on" position - even after multiple re-polls. So sometimes, that sensor just doesn't work. Looking at the ISY through my phone through 4G, which I would do from the car or hotel, it showed the door closed (sensor=on). So this solution is far from the perfect solution, however, it is better than what I had before. Interesting note - without a 'camera' - I did a door open, saw it stayed "on" then door open again, and saw it go to off. I suppose I could cycle the door if I was very unsure, but going this from a distant location, not knowing its actual state could be introducting more potential problems than it might solve. Any thoughts on how to force a good poll on the sensor? From the phone view, I hit refresh, and it stayed as "on" even though it was "off" It did right itself when the state did 'change' to on though.
Xathros Posted May 20, 2014 Posted May 20, 2014 In my experience, this indicates intermittent communications between the IOLinc and the PLM. A few things can be done to help with this situation: 1) Add Access points to improve overall communication between the IOLinc and the PLM and provide phase bridging if you don't already have a good phase bridge setup. 2) Identify and filter noise makers and signal sinks. Many electronic devices, power strips, UPS's etc can either flood the line with noise or attenuate Insteon signals on the power line. Filtering such items with Filterlincs will improve your network reliability. 3) Add additional monitoring to the garage door. You can use a Triggerlinc wireless module to add an additional sensor to the garage door. Some place this such that they indicate when the door is fully open and keep the IOLinc sensor for fully closed. This gives you a second reading as to the current door status and since it is an RF only device, it is less affected by Insteon power line issues. 4) Set up a program that queries the IOLinc periodically. This will update the door status if a change is missed for some reason. You can follow that with a test of "Responding" against the IOLinc and send out a notification in the event that the IOLinc becomes unreachable/unresponsive. Others may have some additional ideas for you. Hope this helps. -Xathros
PittCaleb Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 1) Add Access points to improve overall communication between the IOLinc and the PLM and provide phase bridging if you don't already have a good phase bridge setup. 2) Identify and filter noise makers and signal sinks. Many electronic devices, power strips, UPS's etc can either flood the line with noise or attenuate Insteon signals on the power line. Filtering such items with Filterlincs will improve your network reliability. 3) Add additional monitoring to the garage door. You can use a Triggerlinc wireless module to add an additional sensor to the garage door. Some place this such that they indicate when the door is fully open and keep the IOLinc sensor for fully closed. This gives you a second reading as to the current door status and since it is an RF only device, it is less affected by Insteon power line issues. 4) Set up a program that queries the IOLinc periodically. This will update the door status if a change is missed for some reason. You can follow that with a test of "Responding" against the IOLinc and send out a notification in the event that the IOLinc becomes unreachable/unresponsive. Good ideas all. I must say, one of my bigger disappointments, perhaps my greatest, is the claimed signal is nowhere near advertised. My house's footprint is relatively small. It's 40x40. One would think an RF signal would easily be able to travel from one side to the other. I thought the benefit of Insteon was "dual band" - both RF & Powerline. My first issue was solved when someone said I could NOT plug in my PLM on the same circuit as my desktop computer. Right now, my PLM is in a hallway outside my office with a 50' CAT-5 cable running across the floor back inside it. This can not be the final solution. This brings me to #2 - is there a method to determine what might be causing interference? Perhaps I have one piece of electronics throwing out stray signal on the line I could filter or replace. Re #3 - my first test, the sensor failed to report open, thus an alarm never went off. Last night, it never reported closed, throwing an alert incorrectly. As my wife says, this doesn't solve my problem at all if I can't trust the position sensor up or down. I'm at a complete loss now wrt the garage door. As it's plugged into the ceiling, the sensor is literally 15' from he PLM. Could you provide an example of the code you mention in #4 please? I'm good now with programming buttons and alerts. Need to understand some housekeeping system code next I suppose. Thanks, PittCaleb
Xathros Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 Good ideas all. I must say, one of my bigger disappointments, perhaps my greatest, is the claimed signal is nowhere near advertised. My house's footprint is relatively small. It's 40x40. One would think an RF signal would easily be able to travel from one side to the other. I thought the benefit of Insteon was "dual band" - both RF & Powerline. My first issue was solved when someone said I could NOT plug in my PLM on the same circuit as my desktop computer. Right now, my PLM is in a hallway outside my office with a 50' CAT-5 cable running across the floor back inside it. This can not be the final solution. This brings me to #2 - is there a method to determine what might be causing interference? Perhaps I have one piece of electronics throwing out stray signal on the line I could filter or replace. Simply unplugging suspect devices and testing will usually lead to identifying problem devices. Often however, it is a combination of several devices that add up to being a problem making items harder to identify. Noise filtering power strips, UPS's AV equipment, chargers etc are all likely culprits. Re #3 - my first test, the sensor failed to report open, thus an alarm never went off. Last night, it never reported closed, throwing an alert incorrectly. As my wife says, this doesn't solve my problem at all if I can't trust the position sensor up or down. I'm at a complete loss now wrt the garage door. As it's plugged into the ceiling, the sensor is literally 15' from he PLM. Line of site distance in this case is meaningless. The IOLinc is powerline only device so RF distance means nothing here. What else is on the garage ceiling circuit? How far by wire is it from the PLM? Is it on the same electrical phase as the PLM? Do you have a phase bridge solution in place? Could you provide an example of the code you mention in #4 please? I'm good now with programming buttons and alerts. Need to understand some housekeeping system code next I suppose. Create the following query program and set it to run at startup. If Then repeat every 5 minutes Set 'Garage / Garage Door IOLinc - Sensor' Query Else Thanks,PittCaleb No problem. As always, happy to help. -Xathros
PittCaleb Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 Line of site distance in this case is meaningless. The IOLinc is powerline only device so RF distance means nothing here. What else is on the garage ceiling circuit? How far by wire is it from the PLM? Is it on the same electrical phase as the PLM? Do you have a phase bridge solution in place? Just time for quick response... The Garage is 1 circuit - same as lights, which are on Insteon, and always seem to work. No idea if its on same phase as PLM honestly, and no specific bridge solutions in place. Is a bridge an inexpensive solve, or a $50 module of some sort? I have 12 devices (the counting the garage door opener/sensor as 1), only 11 working, my RF-only flood alert in basement isn't reaching the 2nd floor, nor being repeated by anything in between. I would surmise, with those 11 wired devices, I have something on each phase. I thought that was enough to help communications. PittCaleb
larryllix Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 Just time for quick response... The Garage is 1 circuit - same as lights, which are on Insteon, and always seem to work. No idea if its on same phase as PLM honestly, and no specific bridge solutions in place. Is a bridge an inexpensive solve, or a $50 module of some sort? I have 12 devices (the counting the garage door opener/sensor as 1), only 11 working, my RF-only flood alert in basement isn't reaching the 2nd floor, nor being repeated by anything in between. I would surmise, with those 11 wired devices, I have something on each phase. I thought that was enough to help communications. PittCaleb Something to try would be to disconnect the garage door mechanism and see if the signals are reliable to the Insteon unit only. Noise be coming from the motor or contactors. Using CFL lamps in it?
arw01 Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 Chasing the signal sucker can be a frustrating process. I happen to have one of the old X-10 signal reading meters and insteon is close enough that it registers. Running all over the house with it I found: Televisions are good suckers my microwave (that blew the filter though) my washington machine (now plugged into a syncrolinc, so maybe that helps) 1 of 3 cable boxes was really bad In general I have a filter on the stereo, tv, etc power strips. all computer power strips have a filter. I still have an issue here and there, but it's better. As I add Dual band, I am not sure it really is getting better. Recently added a dual band to my garage keypad when the original pl one died. Now an appliance linc does not always respond to the isy as to status, but seems to always work on or off as it controls my walk way lights. I have another appliance linc that has 2 access points, one plugged RIGHT into it on the pass through, and 3 dual band switches within 12' of it, ISY reports everytime I log in that it does not respond. The fan turns off most of the time in the morning, mostly. Alan
PittCaleb Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 Something to try would be to disconnect the garage door mechanism and see if the signals are reliable to the Insteon unit only. Noise be coming from the motor or contactors. Using CFL lamps in it? Is CFL "very bad" for Insteon? I actually have CFL bulbs hanging on the garage door opener itself, plus 4 in the ceiling. I have replacement LEDs on hand for the ceiling actually, could get 2 more for the opener itself if you think this is the problem. Run to HD today anyway. Would be nice if this solved this issue. PittCaleb
Brian H Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 Can't make a blanket statement that CFLs are all a problem. Some are totally fine while another brand maybe a real power line noise maker or signal absorber. A non dimmable CFL on a dimmer or a control that uses a Triac to switch it On and Off. Can be a real issue.
Xathros Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 Some cfls have been problematic. Some only after they have aged for a while. Spme have been fine. Try unscrewing the garage cfls and test. -Xathros Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MrT Posted May 22, 2014 Author Posted May 22, 2014 I have the same issues with the I/O Lincs for both my garage doors. The I/O Lincs sometimes report correctly garage door closed and sometimes it doesn't because lost communication with the PLM. Cannot be trusted whether the garage door is closed or open when you are not home. So finally I moved the I/O Lincs using 50ft of 4 wires to put next to my PLM in the basement. The communication now works great but one out of 100 times still have communication lost in communicating with the PLM even just 4 inches away on the same circuit. Another note is that make sure not power strips on the PLM line. Make sure connect the PLM and I/O lincs directly to the wall outlet without any Powerstrips. Only sure thing is put IP camera inside the garage facing the door so you can visually verify. Hope that help..
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