ISY 994 and HUB / or PLM and v220

[ez1976]

Hi everyone.

now that i am at my final stage of my house build, i need to purchase and connect all the thingys.

 

since i live in israel, i purchased the ISY with the PLM only to find out it doesnt work at all with 220v (even with a power convertor).

i returned it and purchased the HUB which is not bad.

but since i would like to create complicated events such as:

* if the scene "leaving house" is ON. check all windows and doors and email / sms me if anything is left open

* is no montion is triggered for more that 5 minutes and fan and lights are working (before 10pm), than shutdown fan and turn off lights.

* control AC ,tv and projectior using the globalcache with custom codes.

 

 

these things i wont be able to do with just the hub or even combine it with the houselinc.

 

my question is this: since the houselinc uses the HUB to communicate to endpoint devices, can i purchase the ISY994 and have it communicate with the HUB instead of the PLM?

anyone else managed to get the ISY994 to work with 220v?

 

thanks

[Brian H]

No. The ISY994i uses a serial connection to the PLM. For storing links in its database. Along with Insteon RF and Power Line signal processing.

 

There have been many requests for a 100-240 volt 50/60 cycle PLM but so far we have seen no indication it is going to happen.

[ez1976]

Thanks for your reply.

Do you know if I can make such events In the houselinc?

[larryllix]

I have used HomeSeer Pro v2.3 with a Hub. It worked quite well but the versions I tested were quite early in development.

 

HomeSeer offers a 30 day free trial and there are hacked older versions out there for longer trials. It's a little pricey for me.

[ez1976]

Thanks.

I am not familiar with homeseer? Is it similar to isy?

Will I be able to create events like In the isy?

Or at least better than the houselinc?

Does it come with a smartphone app?

I am sorry if the questions are silly.

Thanks

[larryllix]

Thanks.

I am not familiar with homeseer? Is it similar to isy?

Will I be able to create events like In the isy?

Or at least better than the houselinc?

Does it come with a smartphone app?

I am sorry if the questions are silly.

Thanks

I wouldn't say it was better or worse.

 

I only loaded Houselinc for a few days with it but it sucked in MY Windows. The objects on the app were all placed at absolute pixel addresses and I couldn't even see most of the acknowledge or OK buttons on the bottom or right side. It became useless on two on my PCs with no way to scroll to the controls so I can't say what it did. I got the impression it won't do much compared to HomeSeer.

 

HomeSeer can do it all, just like ISY events and conditionals, but appears to more of a hacker-type environment, so it depends where you are at with your development personality. You will need a computer on 24/7 to run it. There are self contained boxes, http://www.aartech.ca/automation-controllers but my wallet hurts too much.

 

I didn't try any of the speech in or out features. You will require a third party module to interface to the Hub. It is available on their forum for free download as v1.9.xx but you will have to do some nitty-gritty file installing, etc., for the non-pay module.

 

Look for the HomeSeer forum for lots of discussion.

[larryllix]

I was going to suggest a small step-down 220/120 transformer for the PLM if Israel runs 50Hz the signal sync-up protocol probably won't work.

[ez1976]

thanks for your answer

 

i dont mind keep a pc 24/7 (as i planned with the houselinc) but if i can do what the ISY does, its all good.

i just saw that the Homeseer pro ver 3 costs a freaking 600$. the isy and the PLM costs 300$ . i will check earlier non-payment versions.

 

i saw it has an app for the mobile phone which is a must.

i will try and work with it and if its better than the HUB's app i am all good.

 

 

so i can say for example that if scene called "leaving house" is on, and the montion trigger is set, to turn on the lights in the kitchen for 2 min and to close all the shades?

[ez1976]

hey

can i replace the HUB and purchase a USB dongle that supports RF?

does that work with homeseer?

i agree that 500$ is pretty much but it does do what i need

[larryllix]

thanks for your answer

 

i dont mind keep a pc 24/7 (as i planned with the houselinc) but if i can do what the ISY does, its all good.

i just saw that the Homeseer pro ver 3 costs a freaking 600$. the isy and the PLM costs 300$ . i will check earlier non-payment versions.

 

i saw it has an app for the mobile phone which is a must.

i will try and work with it and if its better than the HUB's app i am all good.

 

 

so i can say for example that if scene called "leaving house" is on, and the montion trigger is set, to turn on the lights in the kitchen for 2 min and to close all the shades?

 

Yeah it will do anything you want it too. It has no "else" in the version I tried v2.3.x pro. ISY does and that makes programming a little easier. It supports a tonne of I/O systems just as ISY does. Of course it always takes hardware to do the actual communication.

 

From what I could tell in my few weeks of testing it the Pro didn't offer much more than the regular version for about $200. I didn't want the voice package in it and spent the boot-up time disabling it everytime. That was the main difference I suspected. I would have purchased the regular version if the ISY hadn't come along for me. I like the idea of a PC to do "extra" things and it looked like it might be easier to interface to Having said that my PC just started having memory problems.

 

It is too bad you can't get a EU adapter to work with ISY. I like it so far. It's a fair step up from y MsDos software with X10 modules. Mind you the Insteon system has a lot more quirks an is a little less straightforward. Problem solvers love this stuff anyway.

[ez1976]

Thanks buddy.

The question is what about the extra features of the pro version like being able to customize the mobile app interface?

It sucks that I need to purchase plugins such as insteon support and the itach globalcache but it is highly needed.

 

I will continue playing around with the trail version and see if it is worth200$

 

I remembered there is a usb Dongle from Smarthome That serves as RF only instead of the hub. Is it still supported? Or do I still need to purchase the hub?

[shannong]

I played with the trial version of HS3Pro before buying my ISY about 2 months ago.

 

I can't say that one is better than the other since I know only a little about ISY and even less about HS3.

 

Cost was not a consideration for me. As the controller for a lot more expensive components being built around it a $200-$300 differential is a bad reason to choose unless it's the tie breaker.

 

HS3 is far more flexible than ISY, IMO. There are probably a hundred or more plugins that are free and for purchase to talk to damn near everything I've ever heard of. Since it runs on an x86 box, just about anything can be integrated into HS3 via serial or USB. You can even easily add things into HS3 without integrating it since it could be added to the same workstation where it can put data in a file for HS3 to easily pickup and vice versa. You can use the GUI to write scripts in HS3 like ISY or you can create your own scripts with it's native VB.net support or using almost anything like Perl, Python, etc since it can call external scripts as well.

 

So why did I choose ISY over HS3? First, I decided to base my HA almost entirely on Insteon. There's a chance I might use some Z-wave if forced. ISY already had great Insteon support. HS3 itself is very new and still buggy lacking many basic plugins that haven't yet been migrated from HS2. In fact, it's basically still beta although they've quit actively calling it that in the last month or so. I tested the Insteon plugin for HS3 and it was severely lacking and also felt like a beta.

 

The ISY had a strong community that spoke well of it and specifically saying it was stable and reliable. That's pretty much the opposite of HS3. I also knew that Z-wave for ISY was in beta so I would have that option soon with the ISY. I figured I could do a lot with the ISY quickly without learning VB or another scripting language, although the idea of doing so doesn't bother me. If figured if I really go far with the HA effort and later feel like I'm being limited by the ISY, I'll also buy HS3 and let them coexist since there's a plugin to provide full integration, in beta of course.

 

ISY v5.x is around the corner (so I'm told and hoping) with enhanced variable support and Z-wave rolling out also. So I don't think the ISY will be holding back anytime soon.

[ez1976]

Thanks for your awesome post but the isy require the plm which at its current state require 110 v and I live in Israel which needs 220 v.

If version 5 w ill support 220 then it's a noon brainer.

Till then I am stuck with a software solution

[larryllix]

I remembered there is a usb Dongle from Smarthome That serves as RF only instead of the hub. Is it still supported? Or do I still need to purchase the hub?

 

You would have to read in the homeseer.com forum probably for that. I only saw the PLM and the Hub was a beta thing at the time I was playing with it.

 

You could check out these guys http://www.simplehomenet.com/cats.asp?id=23. In other discussions it came to light that Europe uses different RF frequencies for Insteon also, so you will have to watch your compatibility. The receptacles will be different on European modules.

 

Here is a quick list of SmartHome devices that give some hints to European devices.

http://home-automation.smarthome.com/search?view=list&w=europe

[ez1976]

Only on the legal level.

The usa frequency is not approved in Israel but will work.

I have a few modules installed that are 220 v but if I want to sell them, then it will be a problem but for house use there is no problem

[larryllix]

Only on the legal level.

The usa frequency is not approved in Israel but will work.

I have a few modules installed that are 220 v but if I want to sell them, then it will be a problem but for house use there is no problem

So he only hurdle left is the 50Hz. frequency. A 230/120v step up/down transformer could solve your voltage difference needed for a PLM but the frequency is the basis/time base for the signal synchronisation between units. Please note that most of those small travel adapter/converters are NOT transformers, and usually just series diodes, and that would be what you want.

 

After some reading about this it seems the RF is also locked to the mains frequency so that the mess networking technique stays synchronised on simultaneous repeats (hops) of transmitted Insteon data. Have you tried these 60Hz modules with a keypad or other transmitter/operator?

[Brian H]

Many of the new universal Insteon Modules. Are 100-277 VAC and 50/60 Cycles.

If the user has the new universal modules. The module sets itself up for 50 or 60 cycles at power up.

Unfortunately as you pointed out. The PLM is strictly 60 cycles.

Though we keep pushing for a new universal power PLM.

[larryllix]

Unfortunately as you pointed out. The PLM is strictly 60 cycles.

Though we keep pushing for a new universal power PLM.

Unfortunate ISY's future in Europe is dependant on a device manufactured by a company that probably doesn't want the ISY to exist at all.

[ez1976]

Unfortunately as you pointed out. The PLM is strictly 60 cycles.

Though we keep pushing for a new universal power PLM.

Unfortunate ISY's future in Europe is dependant on a device manufactured by a company that probably doesn't want the ISY to exist at all.

 

 

i know what you mean

i have no problem going to homeseer (and even paying the 300$. its the same since the isy994 cost the same)

the problem is i will need to pay another 120$ for the HUB to act as a gateway for the insteon devices and another 30$ for the plugin.

 

if smarthome didnt discontinued the USB RF dongle, i could have used that one but until then, i will need to pay for homeseer + HUB + Plugins.

[gmanor77]

Hello,

I am also from Israel. I am using the insteon hub.

Thinking to move to the ISY994i.

About the 60Hz problem, won't this solve the problem?

http://img.dxcdn.com/productimages/sku_14322_1.jpg

 

Also, can some one explain to me the diffrence between the ISY994i and the ISY99?

 

Thanks.

[ez1976]

Hello,

I am also from Israel. I am using the insteon hub.

Thinking to move to the ISY994i.

About the 60Hz problem, won't this solve the problem?

http://img.dxcdn.com/productimages/sku_14322_1.jpg

 

Also, can some one explain to me the diffrence between the ISY994i and the ISY99?

 

Thanks.

I had one shipped but no matter what converter I used it didn't convert the signal and was no use.

The only way to have something remotely close to the isy us to buy the hub and use it with home seer.

[Brian H]

The ISY99i is discontinued and is replaced by the ISY994i.

It has many added features.

The older ISY99i can't use the latest firmware as it ran out of programming memory space. So all new recently released Insteon modules can't be supported by the 3.3.10 firmware. That is the last version for the ISY99i.

 

The ISY99i and its replacement ISY994i use a external DC power supply.

So that would probably not be a big problem. Just get a supply for the local power.

 

The big problem is the PLM used to interface the ISY994i to the power lines. It only runs on 120 volts 60 cycles.

The converter maybe able to step the 220 volts down to 120 volts but the power line frequency would still be wrong.

Also if the converter was a step down transformer type. It is very likely the power line signals would not pass through it.

Other converters with a diode or big resistor in it. Have a good chance of damaging the PLM.

[gmanor77]

Thanks for the answer.

 

I understand that the PLM can send commands using the power cables and via wireless com.

If I am using the 220v to 110v adapter - will the PLM succeed sending commands wirelessly? I think it will be enough for my home.

 

Thanks.

[ez1976]

Thanks for the answer.

 

I understand that the PLM can send commands using the power cables and via wireless com.

If I am using the 220v to 110v adapter - will the PLM succeed sending commands wirelessly? I think it will be enough for my home.

 

Thanks.

Nope

Unless you use a true sinus converter that cost more than 2500 nis

That much I can take the home seer and the hub

[Xathros]

Thanks for the answer.

 

I understand that the PLM can send commands using the power cables and via wireless com.

If I am using the 220v to 110v adapter - will the PLM succeed sending commands wirelessly? I think it will be enough for my home.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Possibly. The PLM is designed for 60Hz AC systems. It uses the AC waveform for timing. The RF transmissions are resynced to the AC timing on reception. I'm unsure if any of this will work on a 50Hz power system. Some Smarthome modules state 50/60Hz in their specs - the PLM says 60Hz. Also keep in mind that the 2413S PLM is only offered for US RF bands. It will not work with RF modules for the EU or other locales.

 

-Xathros