Motion Sensor ON, Manually Switchlinc ON

[Rapidway]

I have an (2842-222) INSTEON Motion Sensor that when triggered will turn on three (2477S) Dual Band SwitchLinc On/Off Switches during dusk/Dawn. They are set to turn back off in 30 Secs. All that works just fine but say I want to manually turn on them lights on they don't say on past that 30 secs. How can I get them to motion "ON" for 30 secs, and at the same time turn them "ON" and the stay "ON" till I shut them off...?

[larryllix]

... say I want to manually turn on them lights on they don't say on past that 30 secs. How can I get them to motion "ON" for 30 secs, and at the same time turn them "ON" and the stay "ON" till I shut them off...?

Check to see if the lights are OFF first and if they are NOT leave them alone.

If
       Control 'Gathering Room / Motion' is switched On
   And From    Sunset  +  6 minutes
       To      Sunrise +  6 minutes (next day)
   And Status  'Gathering Room / Floor Lamp' is Off

Then
       Set 'Gathering Room / Floor Lamp' Fast On
       Wait  45 seconds
       Set 'Gathering Room / Floor Lamp' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Note the MS is coupled directly to the module via X10 but it causes the responding lamp to come ON very slowly and I don't like it so I hit it with a 'Fast On' immediately and it beats out the ramp up with an almost immediate full brightness. The ISY is fast if you don't call another programme first. I like the slow ramp off though.

[Rapidway]

I just setup your above suggestion. I'll check it out tonight.

 

Thanks!

[Xathros]

... say I want to manually turn on them lights on they don't say on past that 30 secs. How can I get them to motion "ON" for 30 secs, and at the same time turn them "ON" and the stay "ON" till I shut them off...?

Check to see if the lights are OFF first and if they are NOT leave them alone.

If
       Control 'Gathering Room / Motion' is switched On
   And From    Sunset  +  6 minutes
       To      Sunrise +  6 minutes (next day)
   And Status  'Gathering Room / Floor Lamp' is Off

Then
       Set 'Gathering Room / Floor Lamp' Fast On
       Wait  45 seconds
       Set 'Gathering Room / Floor Lamp' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Note the MS is coupled directly to the module via X10 but it causes the responding lamp to come ON very slowly and I don't like it so I hit it with a 'Fast On' immediately and it beats out the ramp up with an almost immediate full brightness. The ISY is fast if you don't call another programme first. I like the slow ramp off though.

 

Larry-

 

I don't think this program will work as expected. Lets assume that the lights are off to begin with and someone trips the motion sensor. The program will run the then and turn on the light which will instantly re-trigger the program since there is a status change in the lamp. This time it will run false and the timer will never time out and the lights remain on. Subsequent triggers of the sensor will have no effect as the light is now already on and the program will continue to evaluate as false.

 

-Xathros

 

EDIT: Here is a way that should work:

 

If
       Control 'Gathering Room / Motion' is switched On
   And From    Sunset  +  6 minutes
       To      Sunrise +  6 minutes (next day)
   And Status  'Gathering Room / Floor Lamp' is Off

Then
  Run Program MotionTimer (Then Path)
Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Program: MotionTimer

If
       Control 'Gathering Room / Floor Lamp' is not Switched On

Then
       Set 'Gathering Room / Floor Lamp' Fast On
       Wait  45 seconds
       Set 'Gathering Room / Floor Lamp' Off
Else

 

This way, the motion sensor will only trigger the lights if they are not already on and the status change of the lights will not terminate the timer. In addition, if the MS turned the lights on and you want to cancel the timer and keep them on, simply switch the lights on again from the local control.

 

Hope this helps.

 

-Xath

[larryllix]

I would be sure you are correct about that although I have not experienced that yet. I am ln vacation so I cannot experiment with it. I still like the initial fast on in the first programmers though. I find the program called delay time objectionable for turning lights on. Bad keyboard so I won't elaborate.

[oberkc]

I would be sure you are correct that about that although I have not experienced that yet.

 

I must admit that my initial concerns about your program were the same as those of xathros. I also vaguely recall a similar discussion a while back about status and control within the same condition I had a while back, so my confidence is not absolute. Unfortunately, I think your "wait" statement is the factor that will cause the retrigger and halting of the timer.

[Rapidway]

Xathros, I just setup and tested your "TIMER" program and it works like a charm!

 

Thanks again everyone..!

 

M

[Xathros]

Anytime. Happy to help.

 

-Xathros

[EricK]

Xathros,

Can you explain the If condition of the program: Motion Timer for me.

If control 'Gathering Room / Floor Lamp' is not Switched On

Since the first programs calls for the Then to run, is the IF evaluated during the 45sec wait. If so wouldn't the program be false after the light is switched fast on. If the IF is not evaluated why do you need it in the program.

Thanks,

Eric

I keep studying these threads to improve my programming ability.

[larryllix]

Xathros,

Can you explain the If condition of the program: Motion Timer for me.

If control 'Gathering Room / Floor Lamp' is not Switched On

Since the first programs calls for the Then to run, is the IF evaluated during the 45sec wait. If so wouldn't the program be false after the light is switched fast on. If the IF is not evaluated why do you need it in the program.

Thanks,

Eric

I keep studying these threads to improve my programming ability.

Since the program is NOT disabled the If line causes a trigger that will cancel the wait timer in progress. IOW switch the light on manually and now it waits for a switch off and the timer is out of the picture.

[EricK]

In addition, if the MS turned the lights on and you want to cancel the timer and keep them on, simply switch the lights on again from the local control.

I understand now, missed the above line in your description. The IF enables the program to be halted.

Eric

[Xathros]

Exactly.

 

 

-Xathros

[Rapidway]

Ok, I now have two insteon switches in my foyer area for two separate lights out in the front of the house. One turns on a 500w halogen light over the FrontYard and the other switch turns on another 500w Halogen light over the Driveway. I have one motion Sensor set to dusk-to-dawn that turns them both on when motion is sensed at night for 30 secs. While they are both (status) off, I want to manually turn the one switch or both switches and they will STAY on even if motion is detected. Currently they keep turning off after the 30 interval and don't stay on.... I am going to try this tonight. I'm not sure if i have this correct...?

 

===========FrontYardLightsManual======

If

Control 'MS-Front Lights-Sensor' is switched On

And From Sunset + 6 minutes

To Sunrise + 6 minutes (next day)

And Status 'Front Yard Lawn' is Off

And Status 'Front Driveway' is Off

 

Then

Run Program 'FrontLightsMotionTimer' (Then Path)

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

===========END======

 

 

===========FrontLightsMotionTimer======

If

Control 'Front Yard Driveway' is not switched On

And Control 'Front Yard Lawn' is not switched On

 

Then

Set 'Front Yard Driveway' Fast On

Set 'Front Yard Lawn' Fast On

Wait 45 seconds

Set 'Front Yard Driveway' Off

Set 'Front Yard Lawn' Off

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

===========END==========

[oberkc]

I suspect it will do what you stated, but I wonder if that is what you want.

 

What do you want to happen if you manually turn on the lights while in a countdown timer (would you not want them halt the timer and stay on)? What if motion is sensed during the countdown (would you not want to reset the timer)?

[Rapidway]

Yes I guess your right. Resetting the timer would keep the lights on for me when I physically turn on the light switch yet motion would still be sensed. I'm not good at programming and I am really just testing with trial & error. Thanks!

[oberkc]

Your programming was fine. My suggestion is to think out completely how you want your system to behave with regards to the motion and switch. My preferences for your consideration:

 

- manual switch ON turns on lights and halt any ongoing timer / disable new timers and motion?

- if lights off, and between certain time, motion triggers lights and timer. New motion restarts timer?

- at sunrise + 6, any lights on turn off?

[Rapidway]

I do like your preferences you have laid out. (Keep in mind my main goal is say... when I go outside for several mins or longer I don't want to keep waving at the motion sensor to keep turning the lights back on when the timer runs out it's 30 secs.) So I'm going to click around in my program to get a visual on these preferences. I'm a bit lost with this. First off, I'm not sure if I have the Motion Sensor configured correctly with Night mode etc... Thanks again for your help!

[oberkc]

First, night mode for the motion sensor is not needed when you use the ISY to filter responses based upon time. I tend to like to keep motion sensors on regardless of darkness, and configured to send ON only. One never knows when one will want to keep track of motion around the house.

 

I will offer a couple of ideas for your consideration. First, create an integer variable (does not trigger programs when used as a condition). This integer variable will be used to keep track of when one of your switches has been manually turned on or off.

 

Then create a program to set the integer variable. This program will be true if one of your switches is MANUALLY switched on and false if one is manually switched off

 

If

(

Control lawn is switched on

Or control driveway is switched on

)

And

(

Control lawn is not switched off

Or control is not switched off

)

Then

Set integer variable = 1

Else

Set integer variable = 0

 

Then create a program to trigger lights from motion

 

If

Time is from xxxx to yyyy

And integer variable = 0

And control motion sensor is switched on

Then

Run frontlightsmotion (then path)

Else

Set frontyard off

Set driveway off

 

Remove the conditions from your frontlightsmotion program.

 

Let me know how things work out for you.

[Rapidway]

I have MS options set too...

Sensing Mode:

[checked]As motion is sensed (checked)

[unchecked] On commands only (unchecked)

[unchecked]At night only (unchecked)

 

I disabled what I had and started over to get my naming in order with this...

 

===FrontLightsManual=======

If

Control 'Front Yard Lawn' is switched On

Or Control 'Front Yard Driveway' is switched On

And (

Control 'Front Yard Lawn' is not switched Off

Or Control 'Front Yard Driveway' is not switched Off

)

 

Then

$Manual.Lights = 1

 

Else

$Manual.Lights = 0

=========END==========

 

======FrontLightsInterger========

If

From 7:00:00PM

To 12:00:00PM (next day)

And $Manual.Lights is 0

And Control 'MS-Front Yard-Sensor' is switched On

 

Then

Run Program 'FrontLightsManual' (Then Path)

 

Else

Set 'Front Yard Lawn' Off

Set 'Front Yard Driveway' Off

======END===========

I'm still testing it and don't think it's right yet....?

[Rapidway]

my MS timeout options are set to 0.5 but when triggered with motion both lights turn on the right off. It also appears that when the lights are off and i manually press them ON they stay on until motion is sensed and that turns them back off. I will keep playing with it to make sure of this... Thanks again!

[oberkc]

I'm still testing it and don't think it's right yet....?

 

You might add a couple of parenthesees around your first to "OR" statements, see if this helps. Make it more like this:

 

If

(

Control 'Front Yard Lawn' is switched On

Or Control 'Front Yard Driveway' is switched On

)

And (

Control 'Front Yard Lawn' is not switched Off

Or Control 'Front Yard Driveway' is not switched Off

)

 

Then

$Manual.Lights = 1

 

Else

$Manual.Lights = 0

 

I assume this is the case, but make sure your motion sensor is not in a scene with your front lights.

 

Take advantage of the tools available. Check each program and variable. Are they working as you expect? Check each program to

[oberkc]

continuing....

 

check the variable. Make sure it sets to 1 when you press EITHER of the switches ON, and sets to 0 when you press EITHER of the switches off.

 

If you doubt one of the programs is correct, manually run the various parts (IF/THEN/ELSE) to see if they do what you want.

 

Check the program log and verify that each program runs when you think it should.

 

Watch the event viewer to be sure you are getting signals from the motion sensor.

 

Things like that.

[Rapidway]

I will go through what you just mentioned. I did have the MS in a scene with the switches which I just removed it. Thanks

[oberkc]

my MS timeout options are set to 0.5 but when triggered with motion both lights turn on the right off.

 

If this is happening, check the program log to see if one of your programs is executing in such a way that would explain this. For example, if your "frontlightsinteger" status is FALSE, this would indicate that it ran the ELSE path, which would explain why the lights turned off.

[oberkc]

I did have the MS in a scene with the switches which I just removed it.

 

This could explain your problems. If the motion sensor turns on, then turns off in 0.5 seconds, responder devices would do the same.