Curtain Control with discrete and global keypad buttons

[pjjameso]

Looking for suggestions on how to achieve the following:

 

I have four curtains in the bedroom which each have their own scene containing a relay and a keypad button eg relay 1 and keypad button A. When keypad button is switched on it turns on relay 1. Same for buttons and relays 2 - 4 and keypad B-D. So far so good everything works as planned.

 

What I also have done is create a program such that when Keypad 1 On is pressed it executes a program to set all the scenes for the curtains to open eg On. Conversely same when the Off is pressed all the curtains close.

 

What doesnt seem to be working correctly is the LED status updates for 1 (On/Off) nor for the A-D when then the main 1 Keypad button On/Off is triggered. Ideally when the button 1 On is pressed the A-D buttons would light up and conversely when button 1 is pressed off all the A-D and 1 Off would extinguish. Would also be good is after button 1 is pressed on and later any button A-D is pressed to close a curtain button 1 LED would extinguish too as not all of the curtains are open.

 

Thoughts on how to tie all this together? Thanks in advance.

[LeeG]

Secondary KeypadLinc button LEDs must be controlled with a Scene. When the Program is triggered to Open or Close the curtains the Program turns a Scene On or Off that has buttons A-D as Responders.

 

The OFF button cannot be independently turned On or Off. The ON/OFF button can be set to non-toggle Off mode which will have the OFF button dark all the time but it cannot be independently controlled from a Program or Scene. The Programs that react to buttons A-D can turn KeypadLinc Off which will turn the ON button Off but this will turn On the OFF button (unless ON/OFF is non-toggle Off mode).

[EricK]

PJ,

Couldn't you have a scene, "curtains". The on/off is a controller of the scene. The secondary buttons A-D are responders of the scene, set their response to on. The relays are also responders of the scene. When on is pressed, all buttons light up, curtains open. When off is pressed the opposite. This should work better than a program. If you want to have a program the close the curtains at sunset, the then would be insteon set scene "curtains" off. If you set it up this way make sure to set the response for the scene when the isy is used as a controller.

If A-D do not respond to the scene, they may not depending upon the age of the Kpl then you may need a separate scene with just A-D as responders. Then you would need a program triggered by the on and off button to set that scene on or off.

Eric

[pjjameso]

PJ,

Couldn't you have a scene, "curtains". The on/off is a controller of the scene. The secondary buttons A-D are responders of the scene, set their response to on. The relays are also responders of the scene. When on is pressed, all buttons light up, curtains open. When off is pressed the opposite. This should work better than a program. If you want to have a program the close the curtains at sunset, the then would be insteon set scene "curtains" off. If you set it up this way make sure to set the response for the scene when the isy is used as a controller.

If A-D do not respond to the scene, they may not depending upon the age of the Kpl then you may need a separate scene with just A-D as responders. Then you would need a program triggered by the on and off button to set that scene on or off.

Eric

 

Eric,

 

Yes that should work but found out one of the new curtain motors requires that the relay be momentary, eg normally open so no action, to trigger action momentary closed, then 3 sec delay back to open. With this requirement the curtain requires two relays, one for open and another for close action. Have handled this by two simple programs triggered by a keypad button.

 

The strange part is it all works but always takes 2 presses of the Kepad 1 On or Off button to trigger the scenes. I pushed the On button once and checked the status of the ISY via the query and it shows the correct status but will not trigger the program then clause unless I push it again.

 

The even stranger part is if I press the Keypad 1 off button (after the two presses on the on button) the off works fine and then if I press the on it works fine. However if I leave for 10 min or so and try it again it once again requires two presses to get things going again. Very strange.

[pjjameso]

Secondary KeypadLinc button LEDs must be controlled with a Scene. When the Program is triggered to Open or Close the curtains the Program turns a Scene On or Off that has buttons A-D as Responders.

 

The OFF button cannot be independently turned On or Off. The ON/OFF button can be set to non-toggle Off mode which will have the OFF button dark all the time but it cannot be independently controlled from a Program or Scene. The Programs that react to buttons A-D can turn KeypadLinc Off which will turn the ON button Off but this will turn On the OFF button (unless ON/OFF is non-toggle Off mode).

 

Thank you again Lee. This would be fine with the off button always off but the on button following the the trigger event. Still cant figure out why my keypad 1 requires two presses to execute a program, any thoughts?

[LeeG]

Right click the Program name and select Copy to Clipboard. Paste the Program to the forum post.

[pjjameso]

MBR Curtains Close

 

If

Control '2nd Floor / Master Bedroom / MBR Curtain Keypad.1' is switched Off

 

Then

Set Scene 'MBR Curtain NE' Off

Set Scene 'MBR Curtain NW' Off

Set Scene 'MBR Curtain S' Off

Set Scene 'MBR Curtain E' Off

Run Program 'MBR East Curtain Close' (Then Path)

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

MBR Curtains Open

 

If

Control '2nd Floor / Master Bedroom / MBR Curtain Keypad.1' is switched On

 

Then

Set Scene 'MBR Curtain NE' On

Set Scene 'MBR Curtain NW' On

Set Scene 'MBR Curtain S' On

Set Scene 'MBR Curtain E' On

Run Program 'MBR East Curtain Open' (Then Path)

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

MBR East Curtain Close

 

If

Control '2nd Floor / Master Bedroom / MBR Curtain Keypad.1 / MBR Curtain Keypad.C' is switched Off

 

Then

Set '2nd Floor / Master Bedroom / MBR Curtain South R1' On

Wait 3 seconds

Set '2nd Floor / Master Bedroom / MBR Curtain South R1' Off

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

MBR East Curtain Open

If

Control '2nd Floor / Master Bedroom / MBR Curtain Keypad.1 / MBR Curtain Keypad.C' is switched On

 

Then

Set '2nd Floor / Master Bedroom / MBR Curtain South R2' On

Wait 3 seconds

Set '2nd Floor / Master Bedroom / MBR Curtain South R2' Off

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

Each MBR Curtain Scene has only the Keypad eg A-D and and the corresponding relay R1-2

 

The MBR Curtain E only has the keypad C in the scene.

[LeeG]

I see no reason why it would take 2 ON button or OFF button actions to trigger the respective Programs. Watch the Programs | Summary display (Last Run Time and Status) to see if the Program is triggered on the first press.

 

Are these Programs in a Folder that may have to change to True before allowing the Program to run?

[pjjameso]

The programs are not in a folder. You are correct though in that the ISY is not seeing the Keypad 1 button being pressed either on or off on the first try. The local LED come on indicating it was pressed and the green light at the bottom flashes but no action.

 

Guess these are the new 2334-2 v43 KeypadLinc, any idea why the light flashes at the bottom? New feature?

[LeeG]

Run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3. Press either the ON or OFF button once and post the trace.

 

The green LED indicates the responder ACKed the button press message which would indicate the ON message was ACKed by the PLM. It would flash Red if the Responder did not ACK. Older KeypadLincs would flash the button LED several times (more than 2) if a Responder did not ACK.

[pjjameso]

Here is the log from when I pressed the On button on Keypad 1 after a successful pressing of the Off button and correctly executing. The press of the On button did not execute the programs.

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:09:15 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2A.15.B9 11.00.01 C7 06 00 (00)

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:09:15 PM : [std-Group ] 2A.15.B9-->11.00.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:09:15 PM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored.

 

Here is the result after pressing the On button three times to get the execution of the program. And it didnt execute all the scenes, only 3 of the 4.

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:30 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2A.15.B9 11.00.01 C7 06 00 (00)

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:30 PM : [std-Group ] 2A.15.B9-->11.00.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:30 PM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored.

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:37 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2A.15.B9 11.00.01 C7 06 00 (00)

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:37 PM : [std-Group ] 2A.15.B9-->11.00.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:37 PM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored.

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:46 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2A.15.B9 11.00.01 C7 06 00 (00)

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:46 PM : [std-Group ] 2A.15.B9-->11.00.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:46 PM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored.

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2A.15.B9 00.00.01 C7 11 00 LTONRR (00)

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [std-Group ] 2A.15.B9-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [ 2A 15 B9 1] DON 0

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2A.15.B9 11.00.01 C7 06 00 (00)

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [std-Group ] 2A.15.B9-->11.00.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored.

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 47 CF 11 00

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 48 CF 11 00

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 45 CF 11 00

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 41 CF 11 00

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.47 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00)

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:52 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 28 AB F7 0F 45 01

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:52 PM : [ 2A 15 B9 1] ST 255

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:52 PM : [ 2A 15 B9 4] ST 255

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:52 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.48 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00)

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:52 PM : [ 28 AC 86 1] ST 255

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:52 PM : [ 2A 15 B9 6] ST 255

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:52 PM : [ 28 AC 86 2] ST 255

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:52 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.45 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00)

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:52 PM : [ 28 AB F7 3] ST 255

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:52 PM : [ 2A 15 B9 3] ST 255

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:53 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.41 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00)

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:53 PM : [ 2A 15 B9 5] ST 255

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:53 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 28.AB.F7 0F 45 01 06 IOON (01)

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:54 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 28.AB.F7 1F.25.29 27 45 06 IOON (06)

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:54 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 28.AB.F7-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:54 PM : [ 28 AB F7 2] ST 255

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:54 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 28.AB.F7 1F.25.29 23 45 06 IOON (06)

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:54 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 28.AB.F7-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 28 AB F7 0F 46 01

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:54 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 28.AB.F7 0F 46 01 06 IOOFF (01)

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:55 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 28.AB.F7 1F.25.29 27 46 04 IOOFF (04)

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:55 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 28.AB.F7-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:55 PM : [ 28 AB F7 2] ST 0

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:55 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 28.AB.F7 1F.25.29 23 46 04 IOOFF (04)

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:55 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 28.AB.F7-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

[LeeG]

This is the message the ISY is looking for to recognize a button press. It happened only once even though there are other I2CS messages coming from the Keypadlinc from the other presses.

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2A.15.B9 00.00.01 C7 11 00 LTONRR (00)

 

Note the information message that the other messages are ignored because they are not what is expected.

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:30 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2A.15.B9 11.00.01 C7 06 00 (00)

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:30 PM : [std-Group ] 2A.15.B9-->11.00.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:30 PM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored.

 

Four Scenes were invoked which may indicate an Insteon network issue when combined with the above.

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 47 CF 11 00

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 48 CF 11 00

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 45 CF 11 00

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 41 CF 11 00

 

Are there other symptoms that indicate an Insteon network issue? Are Access Points used to couple the 2 120v legs? Are there Surge/Noise suppression power strips in use around the PLM, are there unfiltered electronic devices near the PLM?

[pjjameso]

This is the message the ISY is looking for to recognize a button press. It happened only once even though there are other I2CS messages coming from the Keypadlinc from the other presses.

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2A.15.B9 00.00.01 C7 11 00 LTONRR (00)

 

Note the information message that the other messages are ignored because they are not what is expected.

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:30 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2A.15.B9 11.00.01 C7 06 00 (00)

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:30 PM : [std-Group ] 2A.15.B9-->11.00.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:30 PM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored.

 

Four Scenes were invoked which may indicate an Insteon network issue when combined with the above.

 

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 47 CF 11 00

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 48 CF 11 00

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 45 CF 11 00

Sat 02/15/2014 12:13:51 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 41 CF 11 00

 

Are there other symptoms that indicate an Insteon network issue? Are Access Points used to couple the 2 120v legs? Are there Surge/Noise suppression power strips in use around the PLM, are there unfiltered electronic devices near the PLM?

 

I dont have any Access Points but have about 40 dual band devices, not including keypads, in the house so would think that would cover the coupling of the phases, correct?

 

The ISY is on a UPS but the PLM is directly into the same outlet as the UPS. Also in the outlet is the battery backup for FiOS. Im not seeming to have any other problems with communication in the house. Guess I could move the ISY from the basement to the main level, would that help?

 

Question is why would the initial press of the On (or Off) keypad be rejected and not transmitted? Shouldnt I have seen a red light as you mentioned earlier if the transmission was not acknowledged correctly?

 

Would inserting a 1 sec wait statement between each scene help?

 

Other thoughts?

[LeeG]

For the Scene question a Wait may help. I would put the UPS, battery backup and other devices on a FilerLinc. They often have such good noise reduction capability the Insteon signal is reduced to the point where it may not be reliable.

 

I don't know have a v.43 KeypadLinc so have no direct experience to comment on. I would expect the KeypadLinc to be sending the missing message and it is not received at the PLM. That message is not ACKed because all Responders should see that message making a ACK impossible.

 

As far as wired Dual Band devices providing coupling, the 4 tap set button test will verify coupling.

[EricK]

I dont have any Access Points but have about 40 dual band devices, not including keypads, in the house so would think that would cover the coupling of the phases, correct?

 

The ISY is on a UPS but the PLM is directly into the same outlet as the UPS. Also in the outlet is the battery backup for FiOS. Im not seeming to have any other problems with communication in the house. Guess I could move the ISY from the basement to the main level, would that help?

 

Question is why would the initial press of the On (or Off) keypad be rejected and not transmitted? Shouldnt I have seen a red light as you mentioned earlier if the transmission was not acknowledged correctly?

 

Would inserting a 1 sec wait statement between each scene help?

 

Other thoughts?

 

From all of the reading I have done, adding a wait of a couple of seconds between scene triggers is a good idea to prevent signal collisions. Or you could create an additional scene 'MBR Curtains All' with all of the scene members of the 4 scenes, so instead of

Set Scene 'MBR Curtain NE' Off

Set Scene 'MBR Curtain NW' Off

Set Scene 'MBR Curtain S' Off

Set Scene 'MBR Curtain E' Off

You would just have

Set scene 'MBR Curtains All' Off

Or make the on/off buttons controllers of the 'MBR Curtains All' scene and this way you do not need to have this as part of your program at all.

 

Of course this will not solve what appears to be a communication problem. My PLM is plugged into an outlet shared with a UPS which is on a filterlinc. Good idea to do this. You can try moving the ISY as a test to see if things work better.

What brand motors are you using?

Eric

[pjjameso]

Okay, inserted a filterlinc between the ups and the outlet. Seems to be working will test over the next couple of days with my fingers crossed.

 

Using a mixture of curtain motors, originally had the somfy dr1000 but they are no longer manufactured and one unit bit the dust. Have switched to the NEW Wisetech (not the one on smarthome) rf model hooked up to an ezio relay. Works great at this point.

 

Only downside with the Wisetech is you need to use two relays outputs vs the one for the Somfy. Somfy didnt care if you left the contact closed as would turn off once it reached the end. Wisetech needs to be momentary, hence two NO connections, one for open other for close. But what the heck, you get 4 relays per EZIO.