Going mildly crazy over one Insteon controller

[Harold]

I have been redoing all of my lights. Some have worked properly; some behaved oddly. The ones that behaved oddly work properly now. I cleared them and reloaded them.

 

There are two sets still not doing what they should. One set is a multiple fixture, multiple Insteon control switches that just are not behaving as a scene. They used to. Anyway, that one is next.

 

The one driving me crazy is a single 8 button dimmer. Only the first two buttons are in use (Theater.1 and theater.. The first button is for theater lights and was working just fine. Now when I press it, rather than bringing the lights up to 20%, it does full bright. If I hold the button it will take the dimmer up and down. The second button is part of the other scene I mentioned above.

 

I have tried clearing the unit (pull out the tab), setting it (push in tab and try to load from admin), multiple times. It always fails saying it can't communicate with theater.1. But if I use the admin console, I can control the theater.1 function. I have attached a log file.

 

The first set of entries is me trying to turn the light on and off from Admin. Initially it fails and then it is OK.

 

The second set is trying to write the updates to the device. It appears to do most everything and then fail on the first button.

 

Can anyone please give me some idea what is going on and what to try.

 

I just looked at the attached file. It is rather horrible to read. I just saved it as text from the console. Should I be doing that differently?

ISY-Write to theater 1.txt

[LeeG]

The Event Viewer needs to run at LEVEL 3 to produce a useful trace.

[Harold]

Actually what I was referring to was the horrible formatting when opened with Notepad. Looking at the event viewer screen it seem to have useful information about what was happening.

 

Just use WordPad or another reasonable editor and it is fine.

[gatchel]

Edited for content...

 

 

Most things other than raw txt files format horribly with notepad. Try Excel or openoffice "Calc". It may look better.

[LeeG]

Harold

 

I have been diagnosing Event Viewer files for several years. Wordpad is a good tool to use as it recognizes /r/n.

 

That aside the posted event viewer file was not taken at LEVEL 3 so the actual commands issued with the device response are not in the trace file. Whenever collecting an event viewer file that will be posted it needs to be taken at LEVEL 3.

 

 

EDIT: note the time stamp between ERR 1 and the line just before it. Some 55 seconds of commands issued and device responses that are not traced when not using LEVEL 3. It is the missing information that will document what commands are issued and what device response (or more likely the lack of response) that resulted in ERR 1.

 

Mon 03/31/2014 11:22:27 AM : [10 1 8E 1 ] Link 0 : 0FF8 [22141BFDF5FF1F02] Writing [22..............]

Mon 03/31/2014 11:22:38 AM : [PLM ] Group 20 : Deleting Controller Link matching [10 1 8E 1 ] Link 0 : 0FF8 [22141BFDF5FF1F02]

Mon 03/31/2014 11:22:38 AM : [10 1 8E 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [22040FD204FF1F02] Writing [22..............]

Mon 03/31/2014 11:22:59 AM : [10 1 8E 1 ] Link 2 : 0FE8 [220210060DFF1F02] Writing [22..............]

Mon 03/31/2014 11:23:02 AM : [10 1 8E 1 ] Link 3 : 0FE0 [22020FD1A7FF1F02] Writing [22..............]

Mon 03/31/2014 11:23:05 AM : [10 1 8E 1 ] Link 7 : 0FC0 [62020FD0BB010002] Writing [62020FD0BB010002]

Mon 03/31/2014 11:23:58 AM : [ 10 1 8E 1] ERR 1

[Harold]

I am going to do it again with level 3. Probably not until tomorrow. Is there anything else necessary to post the log here?

[LeeG]

Nothing special. The file will be larger so posting it the same way as the other event file is fine.

[Harold]

OK. Here is a log taken with level 3. A couple of light on/off from the admin console. Then write updates to the device.

Events theater lvl 3.txt

[LeeG]

Thanks for the trace. It has some useful information.

 

Click Link Management | Advanced Options. What option is checked?

 

Click Help | About. What is displayed for Firmware? What is displayed for UI?

 

What is the KeypadLinc firmware level? It is displayed on line 2 on the right side of the KeypadLinc node display.

 

Several link records were written into the KeypadLinc. There were some errors throughout the process that were successfully retried and recovered. Eventually two commands failed in a row and the update process was stopped. It gives the appearance that commands are not reaching the KeypadLinc. Look for something plugged into the same circuit as the PLM.

 

Are there power strips with noise/surge suppression plugged into the same circuit?

 

Is a UPS or other electronic equipment powered from the same circuit?

 

Other devices and power strips should be isolated with a FilterLinc to avoid Insteon signal interference.

 

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:31 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 10 01 8E 0F 28 0F

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:31 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 10.01.8E 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:40 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 10 01 8E 0F 28 0F

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:40 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 10.01.8E 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:41 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.01.8E 1B.FD.F5 2B 28 0F SET-MSB(0F)

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:41 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 10.01.8E-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:41 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 10 01 8E 0F 2B C9

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:41 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 10.01.8E 0F 2B C9 06 NO RESPONSE PEEK (C9)

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:50 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 10 01 8E 0F 28 0F

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:50 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 10.01.8E 0F 28 0F 06 NO RESPONSE SET-MSB(0F)

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:54 AM : [10 1 8E 1 ] Link 6 : 0FC8 [E2051BFDF5FF1F05] *Failed Writing [E2051BFDF5FF1F05]

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:54 AM : [ 10 1 8E 1] ERR 1

[Harold]

Thanks for the trace. It has some useful information.

 

Click Link Management | Advanced Options. What option is checked?

 

It is set to automatic. It had previously been set to Device Reported, but while trying to figure out what is wrong I found somewhere that Automatic ts the default so I changed it.

 

Click Help | About. What is displayed for Firmware? What is displayed for UI?

 

Firmware is 4.1.2. UI is 4.1.3 - Michel asked me to try the UI because of appearing and disappearing automatic write icons. I am still using it. I believe this problem was there with either .2 or .3.

 

What is the KeypadLinc firmware level? It is displayed on line 2 on the right side of the KeypadLinc node display.

 

V.2D

 

Several link records were written into the KeypadLinc. There were some errors throughout the process that were successfully retried and recovered. Eventually two commands failed in a row and the update process was stopped. It gives the appearance that commands are not reaching the KeypadLinc. Look for something plugged into the same circuit as the PLM.

 

The thing with that, and why I included the light on/off from console to demonstrate, is that the ISP communicates just fine with the .1 connection. This particular switch has been working just fine for years with the same hardware/power line configuration. The load switching (.1) button is only operated locally, but it is set up from the ISY. When this started happening I put two new access points on circuits I was sure covered both legs of the 240V service. No change. Then bought and added the passive bridge at the breaker box. Positive it bridges the legs. Also no change. And it is always and only the first button it kicks the error message about.

 

Are there power strips with noise/surge suppression plugged into the same circuit?

 

There are many power strips with surge protection around the house. No paths between the PLM and an Insteon device go through that type of device. No changes to any of these devices were made between the time this device worked, and when it did not. There is a surge arrestor at the service entrance meter at the end of the driveway. Been there for a couple of years. Function lights are unchanged.

 

Is a UPS or other electronic equipment powered from the same circuit?

 

For the lights: no. All lighting circuits are on breakers specifically for lighting. There are couple of UPSs, same for years.

 

Other devices and power strips should be isolated with a FilterLinc to avoid Insteon signal interference.

 

That would be annoying, but doable if necessary. Again, no changes in any of these things.

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:31 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 10 01 8E 0F 28 0F

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:31 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 10.01.8E 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:40 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 10 01 8E 0F 28 0F

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:40 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 10.01.8E 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:41 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.01.8E 1B.FD.F5 2B 28 0F SET-MSB(0F)

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:41 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 10.01.8E-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:41 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 10 01 8E 0F 2B C9

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:41 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 10.01.8E 0F 2B C9 06 NO RESPONSE PEEK (C9)

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:50 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 10 01 8E 0F 28 0F

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:50 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 10.01.8E 0F 28 0F 06 NO RESPONSE SET-MSB(0F)

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:54 AM : [10 1 8E 1 ] Link 6 : 0FC8 [E2051BFDF5FF1F05] *Failed Writing [E2051BFDF5FF1F05]

 

Tue 04/01/2014 11:25:54 AM : [ 10 1 8E 1] ERR 1

[LeeG]

How you go about fixing this is up to you (as far as using FilterLincs for example).

 

The fact that the Advanced Options had been changed to something other than the expected value is somewhat troubling. Were other changes made that have not been restored to the default values.

 

Cannot compare the few On/Off tests to the update. I have not counted them but I would expect the update command count to be 15/20 times the 4 On/Off sequence.

[Michel Kohanim]

Thanks LeeG.

 

Harold, I can tell you from experience that KPL versions 2A and 2D were wrought with bugs. I actually dubbed KPL v2D "the Christmas Tree" effect since it would randomly turn some of other devices to which it was connected on/off. 2A had the same behavior but a little less.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Harold]

Gee Michel, you certainly know how to brighten my day.

 

I have at least three of them. And I may have more in a box of yet to be installed switches. I don't have many dimmers planned so I may not have any more or any that are not V2. I am guessing I really should replace all of them? I will have to talk to Insteon and see if they will do anything. If they were really bad they may have some sort of deal.

 

Thanks Michel and thank you as well LeeG for taking the time to help.

[Xathros]

Harold-

 

I note that you have both Access points and a passive bridge installed. I would recommend removing the passive bridge in favor of the access points. The passive bridge can actually bridge noise from one phase to the other and does not retransmit signals at full strength where the access points will only pass valid Insteon traffic and at full strength.

 

-Xathros

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Harold,

 

I am so very sorry. Again, I would like to offer assistance via our tech support line. SteveL is the master of all things INSTEON and he would be able to figure out whatever problems there may be in rather quickly.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Harold]

What about KeypadLinks before V2. I have a V1.2 I removed while working on this system and it fixed that part of my problem. It behaved like you said. Flaky control. Sometimes it would work, sometimes it would do something else. Not associated with the problem I am trying to resolve in this thread.

 

Even odder. All of rest of the KeypadLincs have stickers on the front of the device saying they are V1.2. But they are reporting themselves as V.33 (yes V.33) on My Lighting. These are all involved in the scene I am having all the trouble with.

[LeeG]

The paper sticker on the device is the hardware revision.

 

The value on line 2 of the node information is the device firmware level.

[Harold]

Michel, were you talking about hardware versions in you post earlier in this thread? The numbers you were using appeared to be hardware versions.

[LeeG]

The v.2A and v.2C are firmware levels, not hardware revisions.

[Harold]

OK Lee. I remain somewhat confused. An example of one of my switches:

 

Top left under the part number - 0903 (manufacture date?)

 

Bottom left

 

V1.2

0213 (or maybe manufacturing date?)

 

Version number shown at the end of the line when looking at the device from the admin console.

 

V.33

 

So we (us and Michel) are talking about the Firmware version as V.33 in this case. So there is no way to know what the firmware version is unless the switch is on the power line and recognized by the UD controller?

 

Is the V1.2 on the paper label of the switch then the hardware version. My gut feeling is that this would also be an important factor in knowing if a switch is like to be trouble prone.

 

Is there a list somewhere showing some sort of acceptability factors for both hardware and firmware levels. I held off for several years waiting for things to stabilize. I would really like to know if I have any devices that are much more likely to cause problems than later hardware of firmware releases. I have enough problems without mixing random junk. I have a fairly large number of Insteon devices sitting in a box waiting for me to finish the house control system.

[Brian H]

This is an unofficial list of many of the Insteon devices.

Mostly from what users have provided and known issues maybe listed.

http://www.madreporite.com/insteon/Inst ... e_list.htm

[LeeG]

"is no way to know what the firmware version is unless the switch is on the power line and recognized by the UD controller?"

 

Adding a device is the best way. No need to use it if you do not like the firmware level. There are usually various methods of getting information on firmware level but why have to learn some other method. They are all dependent on accessing the device. Use an appliance cord to power the device and add it to the ISY. No need to install in a box.

 

"V1.2" is the hardware revision. The device hardware level is established when the device is manufactured. SmartLabs will use the latest firmware so the firmware level could well evolve over the life of a particular hardware revision. Hardware revision has not been used to identify an issue with a device. Since SmartLabs publishes nothing about issues with any level of hardware/firmware there could be an issue with a particular hardware revison but likely that would not be known.

 

The latest devices are usually faster to manage because they use Extended commands for link management and configuration. Also the latest devices usually have features that older devices do not have.