barrygordon Posted April 13, 2014 Posted April 13, 2014 I am starting to use Insteon 2441ZTH Wireless Thermostats with Insteon Wired 2441TH thermostats and have noted the following in the ISY99 configuration tables. I am running ISY firmware 4.1.2. 1) The state of the system (cooling, heating, off) does not show up in the entry for the wireless tstat, only in the entry for the wired tstat. 2) The designation of which is currently master, a wireless tstat (there may be up to 2) or the wired tstat. 3) There is no way to control from the ISY which is master, a specific wireless tstat or the wired tstat. Item (1) above is minor and not an issue. Item(2) and item (3) would greatly improve the usefulness of the wired/wireless tstats. For example I might want the wireless tstat in a bedroom to control temperature for the zone at night, but during the day the wired tstat in the main area to be the temperature control point for the zone. I know there is communications between the wired and wireless tstats as they coordinate the Master state based upon the "Master" button being pressed, and the temperature settings are also passed between them. This would be a very powerful capability to add.
Michel Kohanim Posted April 14, 2014 Posted April 14, 2014 Hi barrygordon, Unfortunately I do not think the APIs provide this information. With kind regards, Michel
barrygordon Posted April 14, 2014 Author Posted April 14, 2014 According to the technical staff at smarthome they stated that their hub can designate which thermostat, wired or either wireless, is the "Master" so it seems the API allows for it. The other problem I am having is that I make the wireless unit the master and it runs fine for a while and some time later the system reverts back to the wired unit being the master with no action on my part. The tech said that he is sure that if I take the Thermostats out of the ISY configuration this "reverting to master" will no longer occur. I will try that but then I loose the ability to show the HVAC status on my iPads which I am doing via the ISY. If this is the case (I will let you know after I try it) then somehow the ISY is directing the change in "Master" state; something I would like it to be able to do on command. Help and advice appreciated.
Michel Kohanim Posted April 15, 2014 Posted April 15, 2014 Hi barrygordon, It seems that there's a contradiction in what SH tech support is suggesting: if ISY can impact the master/slave mode, then we should already be able to support that feature. This said, ISY does not so how is it that removing the thermostat from ISY would fix it such that it does not revert to slave? Do you have more than one of these thermostats? With kind regards, Michel
barrygordon Posted April 15, 2014 Author Posted April 15, 2014 I have two complete set ups, each having a wired and a wireless thermostat. One set is working fine, and is in the ISY config. The other set, which periodically switches back to the wired one as master with no manual action, I took out of the ISY config. It is still failing. I believe this removes the ISY as the problem source. I will request a replacement thermostat from smarthome. I would appreciate your looking into the ability to set which unit of a wired/wireless thermostat setup is master from the ISY. this would enable me to control which room (thermostat) is controlling the HVAC system based upon time, occupancy, or other conditions via a program. I will keep you informed.
barrygordon Posted April 26, 2014 Author Posted April 26, 2014 Well I have not yet resolved the wired/wireless issue and intend to spend time next week with Smarthome. I also have another thread I started relating to an issue with the ISY reporting an incorrect state for thermostat system state using firmware 4.2.1. I reverted back to firmware 4.1.2 and it now reports the correct state. I would really like to understand the event logs at level three as they seem to contain a lot of info. LeeG has given me some info. Is there any reference manual or document that completely describes the make up of the event logs at their various levels. There is definitely wireless communications going on between a wire and linked wireless thermostat. Each knows who is master, and each shows the current temperature of the other unit. I only have a 1:1 setup (one wired and 1 wireless) so I am not sure what shows with a 1:2 setup. The biggest problem I have I do not believe is ISY related. If I make the wireless unit the Master, it will revert back to not being master at some time in the future. This should never happen. I have also seen where both units indicate they are currently the master. That makes no sense. These issues do not occur if the wireless unit is only powered by a battery. I have one wireless unit powered on battery only and when it is made master it stays master. The other wireless unit which is also powered by +5 volts (regulated source at 5.1 volts) is the one that self reverts from being master. I have exchanged the units and they both act the exact same way. Neither wireless unit is in the ISY configuration That's it for now
larryllix Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 Having owned a 2441ZTH unit for about a month now I would also like to see more support in the ISY for this thermostat/sensor. Many of the control features such as "SetPoint Up/Down 1" are available in the pulldown selection but do not function with this unit. If the ISY knows what the current temperature settings are and can set them when manually asked to then the programs should be capable of doing it also. Setpoint temperature (Heat/Cool) settings should also be settable and assignable from/to variable values as well as the current temperature should be available to save into variables for data manipulation or transmission to remote readouts etc. These are all features available to other devices inside ISY and should not be asking the supplied UPI to do anything more than what has already been implemented. The information is already inside the ISY. Currently there is no way to do any calculations from the current temperature making the 2441ZTH useless as a cheaper and commonly available sensor. Oh I can manually test for each and every temperature but it would take 100 repetitive programs and never be able to resolve the 0.5 degree resolution available in the communication events. More support for the information already communicated to/from the 2441ZTH to the ISY would be appreciated in the next release, if possible. This device seems to be not supported with a finished interface as other devices are.
barrygordon Posted May 16, 2014 Author Posted May 16, 2014 As a point of information, smarthome has informed me in an email that there is a bug in the wireless thermostat logic where it stops being the master after some period of time. This is what I observed and reported to them. They have not indicated when it will be resolved. Not being satisfied with the way these thermostats operate, alone or with the ISY, I am working on developing my own HVAC control system based on 1-wire sensors. I haves sensors installed in every room and am getting accurate temperature information. I am using unobtrusive metal disks flush mounted to the wall and painted to match. The thermostat is attached to the disk with thermal adhesive and sits in the Sheetrock. The reaction time to temperature change seems to be too slow, so I am going to test a different enclosure. The new enclosure is the one seen in many hotel rooms in the USA, and used by Johnson controls and RCS as their remote sensor enclosure. It is a small white vented enclosure which puts the sensor directly in room air in a manner similar to the thermostat's sensor. If this plan works out I wall have an issue with the ISY as I will not be able to send it HVAC related info until the network module accepts input. I will however be able to control and view the HVAC systems from my iPads. The control of the system will initially be from an always on PC but eventually through a micro controller like the Netduino or an Rpi and a relay bank.
PurdueGuy Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 ... If this plan works out I wall have an issue with the ISY as I will not be able to send it HVAC related info until the network module accepts input... You can send variable information to the ISY via the REST API. That would let you set different temperatures for each room. Or do you mean you will have the ISY poll a server and have the answer returned to in the network call?
barrygordon Posted May 16, 2014 Author Posted May 16, 2014 The more I think about it, I am not sure I will have any need for the ISY re the HVAC system. All my HVAC displays (Setpoints, mode, state, temperature etc.) and the control of all aspects of the HVAC systems is via the in-wall iPads. Right now they do that control Via the ISY to the Insteon Thermostats. I will only need the ISY if I keep the thermostats but I am thinking of removing them or leaving them on the wall just for resale. If I do the later there will be a manual control switch that well set the control of the HVAC systems and the associated dampers either under control of the wall thermostats plus the ISY or under control of the PC/Rpi that will be my HVAC control system handling the relays based upon the sensor values and the algorithms I use. I have 4 4PDT switches which allows me to switch 16 lines. currently I only need 6 total for the HVAC systems as R and C can always stay connected to both systems (thermostats and Relays). This leaves 10 relays for Dampers, and fan speed control, more than enough. These switches will only be thrown to Thermostat control when I sell the house or if I screw things up! I would really like the ISY to be able to poll a server and get the reply back so it can act on it, or react to a TCP or UDP message from a server sent asynchronously, but I do not believe that is possible at the current time
Michel Kohanim Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 Hi Barry, I would really like the ISY to be able to poll a server and get the reply back so it can act on it, or react to a TCP or UDP message from a server sent asynchronously, but I do not believe that is possible at the current time This is pretty generic since it implies that somehow ISY should be able to parse any feedback/payload from any server. Unfortunately, I am not sure if anything can do such a feat without some type of meta data. With kind regards, Michel
barrygordon Posted May 17, 2014 Author Posted May 17, 2014 I realize it is beyond the scope of what the ISY can do since it does not have a general programming language like JS as part of its capabilities. What it does do it does very well so I am not complaining just dreaming . . .
larryllix Posted May 17, 2014 Posted May 17, 2014 I realize it is beyond the scope of what the ISY can do since it does not have a general programming language like JS as part of its capabilities. What it does do it does very well so I am not complaining just dreaming . . . But the ISY could use the data it already has to be used in a variable. ISY could also implement the functions already supplied in the pulldown menus for the 2441ZTH unit. More controls are in the menus but not functional for programs, only manual operation. Probably a overlooked spillover from when it would be wirelessly connected as a slave to a wired unit.
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