propman07 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Hello- I recently became the victim of a failing PLM. I came home from work a few weeks ago, and noticed that the outside lights were not on. When I checked, the green LED on the PLM was out. I thought that was odd, so I unplugged it, plugged it back in, and the LED was on. I checked the ISY device, and everything seemed to be okay. Fast forward to a couple of nights ago....same issue...green LED on PLM was out. I did the same thing, and was able to get the LED to come back on. I contacted Insteon, and they said that it sounded like the PLM was failing. They offered to ship me a replacement, provided that I returned the failing unit. I figured that was great, so I went ahead and placed the order. I got the new PLM today in the mail. I followed the instructions on the Wiki on replacing the PLM. When I went to restore the PLM in the admin console, I got a bunch of "cannot communicate with device" errors on devices that were working before. I let it go through the restore process, then attempted to restore the connection to each individual device. I was able to get things restored, or so I thought, until I tried some programs that I have. I would check to see if a program ran, and the log said it did, but nothing would happen. I have several programs that run at sunrise/sunset that do not appear to work. I can run the then/else statements manually, and they seem to work then, but they do not work programatically. I even tried to replace the new PLM with the old one, thinking that might fix things, but I'm in the same boat. I wanted to see if anyone could offer some trouble shooting advice. I've gone into diagnostics to see if the PLM has links in the table. The count shows 24. I am assuming that refers to the number of devices that I have in the system, but I wanted to confirm that. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 The count should be much higher. A single KPL has at least 5 for a 6 button, 8 for an 8 button. That does not include Scenes that use those buttons. The ISY needs to be powered down when changing PLMs. After the PLM and ISY have been powered then the Restore Modem (PLM) is issued to build/rebuild the PLM link database. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propman07 Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 LeeG Once again, thanks for the reply. I thought that the link count was low. I couldn't figure out how to get it to re-write the database. It sounds like I should do the following (in order) 1) power down PLM 2) power down ISY 3) power up PLM 4) wait 1-2 minutes 5) power up ISY 6) wait 1-2 minutes 7) log into admin console issue restore modem command I can give that a try tomorrow, if it is correct. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 The sequence is fine. The PLM will come up quickly so no need to wait 2 minutes. 30 seconds is fine before plugging in ISY. It will take a minute or so to come up fully. The PWR LED will be the only one On when the ISY is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propman07 Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 Thanks. I'll give that a try. If I run through this with the new PLM, and the count is still low, what are my options at that point? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pc8888 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I had the same issue. See my post in Insteon forum http://forum.smarthome.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15430 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propman07 Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 I had the same issue. See my post in Insteon forum http://forum.smarthome.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15430 Thanks for the link. All of the switches that I have are Insteon, so I don't have any Icon switches in my setup. I may look into adding a pair of access points once they come back in stock. I happened to have an old topology file that has most of the switches in my setup. Here's part of my overall setup. (2475D) In-LineLinc Dimmable v.38 Qty: 1 (2475S) In-LineLinc Relay v.38 Qty:1 (2476S) SwitchLinc Relay - Remote Control On/Off Switch v.3A Qty:6 (2476ST) SwitchLinc Relay v.2C Qty:1 (2477D) Dual Band SwitchLinc Dimmer v.40 Qty:5 (2486S/WH6) KeypadLinc Relay v.36 Qty:3 (2487S) Dual Band KeypadLinc Relay v.40 Qty:5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurdueGuy Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Thanks for the link. All of the switches that I have are Insteon, so I don't have any Icon switches in my setup. I may look into adding a pair of access points once they come back in stock. I happened to have an old topology file that has most of the switches in my setup. Here's part of my overall setup. The new Range Extenders (2992-222) are in stock, shipping today. http://www.smarthome.com/2992-222/INSTEON-Range-Extender/p.aspx They also have a 2-pack refurbished access points, for the price of 1 Range Extender, but that is out of stock, but given they have a new model, it may never be in-stock again. http://www.smarthome.com/2563-222R/2-Pack-Refurbished-Access-Point-INSTEON-Range-Extender-Dual-Band/p.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymondh Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 The new Range Extenders (2992-222) are in stock, shipping today. http://www.smarthome.com/2992-222/INSTEON-Range-Extender/p.aspx They also have a 2-pack refurbished access points, for the price of 1 Range Extender, but that is out of stock, but given they have a new model, it may never be in-stock again. http://www.smarthome.com/2563-222R/2-Pack-Refurbished-Access-Point-INSTEON-Range-Extender-Dual-Band/p.aspx This is off topic but why would someone choose a range extender over a Lamplinc or on/off module? Don't they accomplish the same thing as a range extender but with the added benefit of controlling something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurdueGuy Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 This is off topic but why would someone choose a range extender over a Lamplinc or on/off module? Don't they accomplish the same thing as a range extender but with the added benefit of controlling something? I believe the feeling used to be that the older Access Points were more capable (more sensitive to receiving and more power at transmitting?). I don't know about the new ones. Also, they are a little cheaper, although not by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 You can put a Range Extender or Access Point anywhere it works best. With Dual Band Lamplinc or any other module. You use it where you have a load to control or waste the extra feature in a place with no loads. I have no information on the new Range Extender that looks like a 2457D2 LampLinc with half its guts removed and has the same FCC ID as the 2457D2 LampLinc. My tests show the Hardware revision 1.? 2443 Access Points work better than the revision 2.? ones that have the same base board as the 2413S PLM. Dual Band modules like SwitchLincs can also have limited range. Depending on where mounted, anything in its path to another module and mounted in a metal electrical box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propman07 Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 LeeG Once again, thanks for the reply. I thought that the link count was low. I couldn't figure out how to get it to re-write the database. It sounds like I should do the following (in order) 1) power down PLM 2) power down ISY 3) power up PLM 4) wait 1-2 minutes 5) power up ISY 6) wait 1-2 minutes 7) log into admin console 8 issue restore modem command I can give that a try tomorrow, if it is correct. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD LeeG- I was able to give this a try today. I followed the steps above, and went into the admin console to restore the modem. I received four errors in comminicating to devices in my system that never gave me trouble before. I went into tool>diagnostics>show plm links table and hit start. The count returned only 24 items. I'm attaching a few snapshots of the error messages for reference. I also added the info from help>about for UI version info. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 The link count is low. It should be in the 70's not counting Scenes that are defined. Is it possible a Delete Modem (PLM) was issued at some point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propman07 Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 The link count is low. It should be in the 70's not counting Scenes that are defined. Is it possible a Delete Modem (PLM) was issued at some point? LeeG- Yes, it is possible. In following the instructions on the wiki to replace a modem, I looked at the instructions to delete a modem thinking that might help solve the problem I was having. I did make a backup ISY file, but at this point, I'm not sure if I had the new modem connected or the old one. I still have the old modem, as I have not sent that back to Insteon if that helps. I'm not even sure how to move forward at this point because I tried to add a new device, and was unsuccessful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Once a Delete Modem (PLM) has been issued the PLM link information has been removed from the ISY. It is necessary to restore an ISY backup that was taken before the Delete Modem (PLM) was issued. Then do another Restore Modem (PLM) to build the PLM link database. If there is no ISY backup to go back to then the devices need to be Deleted and added back to the ISY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propman07 Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Once a Delete Modem (PLM) has been issued the PLM link information has been removed from the ISY. It is necessary to restore an ISY backup that was taken before the Delete Modem (PLM) was issued. Then do another Restore Modem (PLM) to build the PLM link database. If there is no ISY backup to go back to then the devices need to be Deleted and added back to the ISY. LeeG- Do I need to connect the old modem before restoring the ISY backup, or should I leave the new modem connected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Leave the new PLM connected. Restoring an ISY backup changes the data in the ISY itself. Does not affect the PLM, A Restore Modem (PLM) is required to rebuild/build PLM. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propman07 Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 I will leave it connected. I have an older backup from an older version. Would that be okay to restore the older version? I think it is a backup from 3.3.10. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 One can migrate from 3.3.10 to 4.0.5 so I think so but I have been on a 994i for a long time and don't remember the migration path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xathros Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Restoring a 3.3.10 backup to 4.0.5 is OK. Restore the backup then do a Restore PLM. -Xathros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propman07 Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Thanks for the replies. I was able to restore the ISY with the backup I knew to be good from earlier this year (although it was 3.3.10). After restoring the ISY, I proceeded to restore the PLM. I was able to restore the PLM, but I encountered an error in communicating with one device. I went into tool>diagnostics>show plm links table and hit start. The count returned 128 items. I think that I'm a lot closer to getting my system back to where it was before all of this started. Any suggestions on how to get the system to "see" the one device? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propman07 Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 I was able to establish communication with the one problem device. Now, for some reason, a lot of my programs no longer work. Through the admin console, I can control devices that are in programs that I've written. When the programs try to run on their own, they fail to control the devices. Here is a sample program. This program is pretty simple. I have an Insteon switch (2477D) that controls the overhead lighting. I have under cabinet lighting that are controlled by a LampLinc relay (2457D). If Control 'Hardware / Kitchen Lighting' is switched On Then Set 'Hardware / Kitchen Lighting' 100% Wait 4 seconds Set 'Hardware / Cabinet Lighting' 100% Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Before I had PLM issues, this program ran without issue. If I tapped the light switch in the kitchen, the overhead lights would slowly ramp up, and the under cabinet lighting would come on. With the new PLM, the overhead lights turn on, but the under cabinet lighting does not. I can control the under cabinet lighting by issuing commands from the admin console, and they respond as expected. For some reason, they do not respond as they used to with the new PLM. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 First I would look at the Ramp Rate for 'Hardware / Cabinet Lighting'. The same command is used by the Admin Console and the Program to turn On 'Hardware / Cabinet Lighting' which suggests the issue is related to the specific Program. Create a new Program from scratch doing the same processing. Disable the existing Program so there will not be two Programs triggered by the switch activation. Since Direct commands are being used PLM link records are not involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xathros Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Also, be aware that when showing the PLM links table, any insteon traffic received by the PLM will reset the pointer and throw off the count high or low. You need to do the show/count process a few times and receive the same result for the result to be considered valid. -Xathros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propman07 Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 First I would look at the Ramp Rate for 'Hardware / Cabinet Lighting'. The same command is used by the Admin Console and the Program to turn On 'Hardware / Cabinet Lighting' which suggests the issue is related to the specific Program. Create a new Program from scratch doing the same processing. Disable the existing Program so there will not be two Programs triggered by the switch activation. Since Direct commands are being used PLM link records are not involved. LeeG- Understood. I created a new program, and disabled the old one. I received the same results. I can control the lights via the admin console, but when the program runs, nothing happens. It is starting to look like I will need to remove all of my devices, and add them back to the system again. I will have to export all of the programs that I have to try to same some time in restoring the system to normal operation. The failing PLM has really been a pain in the neck to replace. Thanks for the replies. Xathros- I will run the count again, and see if I get the same results. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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