Another ALL ON Event

[marvel]

Will do. Thank you.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi marvel,

 

I do not see anything strange in the logs.

 

Do you know approximately what time the event took place and is it the case that ALL your devices turned on or just a few?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[marvel]

Hi Michel. It happened at 8:51pm on 9/14. Yes, every device turned on immediately after I hit my "sleep" button on the bedroom KPL. 

 

This button triggers a KPL backlight dimming program, so I thought that was the issue. However, I'd inserted a 3 second delay into that program for troubleshooting purposes after a previous event and the All On didn't happen 3 seconds after hitting Sleep, it happened immediately. After reading the reply from stusviews, I realized I'd set that button to trigger a scene which activated that button. I think that is the catalyst for my troubles; all of my All Ons have happened after hitting that button, so I removed it from the scene. 

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi marvel,

 

Thanks so very much for the details. Yes, indeed the issue is the combination of INSTEON event->ISY->Program->Scene. Was this button a member of the same scene?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[marvel]

Yes, the button was a member of the same scene. The intent was to have the button light up regardless of where the scene was activated from, since it's also a status indicator that the house is in "sleep" mode. There are a few workarounds for this that I can implement.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi marvel,

 

That's pretty much the root cause.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[marvel]

Well, it just happened again. I hit "sleep" and immediately every device in the house turned on. I removed the device from the scene days ago and my backlight dimming program has a 5 second delay before it kicks in after the button is pressed, so I don't think that's the problem.

 

What now?!! I've replaced the PLM. I have no idea where to look next, except to try disabling the backlight dimming altogether. But that is NOT an option long term. I can't sleep with the KPLs bright like this.

 

edit: I just deleted the entire "sleep" scene and performed a restore of the master bedroom KPL in case there were some links in there that shouldn't be. I'm going to try leaving the backlight dimming enabled for now. I really depend on it and unless the program is completely ignoring my 5 second wait, which I doubt, then I don't see how it could be the problem given that this All On happens immediately. I barely had time to remove my finger from the button after pressing it before everything came on.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi marvel,

 

The wait only reduces the likelihood but doesn't eliminate it. This is especially the case if you have a large scene and the kpl is waiting for cleanup messages from all responders.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[marvel]

Thank you as always for your responses, Michel.

 

I'm struggling to understand how the KPL backlights could be a player in this one. The All On triggers immediately after the button press, but the KPL backlight program has a 5 second wait at the top. If it were the cause, wouldn't the All On trigger after the 5 seconds had elapsed (ie, when the actual backlight dimming commands began execution)? Surely the ISY is not executing commands in advance of that wait?

 

Also, I thought a new PLM was supposed to fix this issue. Did I misunderstand?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi marvel,

 

Here's the issue,

If the KPL button in question is not only a controller for a scene but also a program in ISY is used based on that button press to do anything INSTEON, then there's a likelihood for All On. So, this being said, do you have ANY programs that might get activated because of this button press that cause INSTEON traffic? If so, which?

 

Those with version 2c of the PLM have not reported All On events.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[stusviews]

My bedroom device LED dimming program is not triggered by a device that the program dims. The trigger button is on a KPL in a room on the way to the bedroom. The program does not include a delay. OTOH, the movie program's trigger is on a KPL that's dimmed. Neither has caused an All On although I've experienced several All On events. Both programs run daily. These results along with marvel's do not provide a clue, they make the culprit more elusive.

 

I've removed the 2 second delay from the movie programs (dim LEDs, restore LED brightness). Unless I experience an All On as a result, I'll report back in about a week.

[larryllix]

I have 9 MS units and no time delays and never experienced an All On yet. (please don't jinx me now).

 

I dim my LEDs on a dark/light report count from my MSes unrelated to buttons similar to Stu. I do use 2 second delays between each LED set though as they tie up my ISY badly. I have one KPL that does get dimmed also.

 

The sequence starts right after the fifth MS reports dark or light so do synchronise with a recent MS dark report signal.

[Techman]

Well, it just happened again. I hit "sleep" and immediately every device in the house turned on. I removed the device from the scene days ago and my backlight dimming program has a 5 second delay before it kicks in after the button is pressed, so I don't think that's the problem.

 

 

Being that your dimming 9 KPL's at the same time try putting a 5 second wait in between each KPL dim statement.

[marvel]

So, this being said, do you have ANY programs that might get activated because of this button press that cause INSTEON traffic? If so, which?

 

I do. When sleep mode is enabled, a "sleep" variable gets set to 1 and this triggers another program to dim the exterior lights (via a Set Scene event) if certain other conditions are met. Please tell me there is a workaround... if I can't press a button to trigger a program that conditionally executes Insteon commands, this would be most unfortunate. 

 

For what it's worth, I've been running this exact program for years and it has only recently (in the past several months) been a problem.

 

 

Being that your dimming 9 KPL's at the same time try putting a 5 second wait in between each KPL dim statement.

 

 

Done, thank you.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi marvel,

 

Are any of the buttons on this KPL involved through what you've explained above?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[marvel]

No, not anymore. The KPL button triggers a scene to dim the exterior lights (13 devices), but this KPL is not a part of that scene in any way. 

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi marvel,

 

Is that the only scene impacted by this program?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[marvel]

Yep. Here's the workflow:

 

When the "sleep" KPL button is "switched on", OR if the $sleep variable is set to 1 by some other means, the program sets $sleep = 1 and $kpbacklights = 0. This triggers two more programs:

 

1. One program sets the backlight levels for 9 KPLs to 1. There is currently a five second delay at the top of the program and between each Set command.

2. Another program sets the Exterior Lights Dim scene (if it's also night time and the house is not in party mode). I added a 2 second delay prior to the Set Scene command in hopes of remedying this.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi marvel,

 

What's in the #2 scene?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[stusviews]

It's just over a week since I deleted any and all delays from my device LED dimming programs. We've not experienced an All On as a result.

[marvel]

Michel,

 

There are 13 devices in the Exterior Lights Dim scene. None are KPLs. Image attached.

 

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi marvel,

 

Can you please post the program that you think is causing the All On/Off?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[marvel]

Well, there's a little collection of programs involved that play off one another based on the changing of state variables, but yes I can post them. Is there a way to copy & paste these, or do I have to take screenshots/type them out by hand?

[LeeG]

Right click on Program name, select Copy to Clipboard (last option).  Paste to reply, then Copy to Clipboard and paste next, and so on.    

[marvel]

Hah. Ridiculously obvious, I should have seen that. Thank you. So here's the work flow:

 

I use state variables to put the house into different modes. Here's the program to set $sleep:

Sleep on (Set) - [ID 0006][Parent 002A]

If
        Control 'Interior / Upstairs / Master suite / Bed / MstrBed KP:H sleep' is switched On
     Or $Sleep is 1
 
Then
        $Sleep  = 1
        $KPBacklights  = 0
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 
 

I used to have a "Set Scene" command in the Then block that triggered a scene to turn "MstrBed KP:H sleep" On. That way I could set $sleep = 1 anywhere else in the code and the button would light up. I took this out because of the concerns it was triggering All On. This was the first fix I implemented in attempting to resolve this problem, but it did not help.

 

Next, we dim the KPLs:

 

KP Backlights - [ID 000C][Parent 0001]

If
        $KPBacklights is 1
 
Then
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Interior / Upstairs / Master suite / Bath / MstrBath KP:A fan' On 15 / Off 7 (Backlight Level)
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Interior / Upstairs / Master suite / Bath / MstrToilet KP:A fan' On 15 / Off 7 (Backlight Level)
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Interior / Upstairs / Master suite / Bed / MstrBed KP:A fanhigh' On 15 / Off 7 (Backlight Level)
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Interior / Upstairs / TinyHall KP:A kitchen' On 15 / Off 7 (Backlight Level)
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Interior / Upstairs / BackDoor KP:A kitchen' On 15 / Off 7 (Backlight Level)
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Interior / Upstairs / Laundry / LaundryLeft KP:A' On 15 / Off 7 (Backlight Level)
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Interior / Upstairs / Laundry / LaundryCenter KP:A GarageLts' On 15 / Off 7 (Backlight Level)
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Interior / Upstairs / Laundry / LaundryRight KP:A' On 15 / Off 7 (Backlight Level)
 
Else
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Interior / Upstairs / Master suite / Bath / MstrBath KP:A fan' On  1 / Off 1 (Backlight Level)
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Interior / Upstairs / Master suite / Bath / MstrToilet KP:A fan' On  1 / Off 1 (Backlight Level)
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Interior / Upstairs / Master suite / Bed / MstrBed KP:A fanhigh' On  1 / Off 1 (Backlight Level)
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Interior / Upstairs / TinyHall KP:A kitchen' On  1 / Off 1 (Backlight Level)
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Interior / Upstairs / BackDoor KP:A kitchen' On  1 / Off 1 (Backlight Level)
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Interior / Upstairs / Laundry / LaundryLeft KP:A' On  1 / Off 1 (Backlight Level)
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Interior / Upstairs / Laundry / LaundryCenter KP:A GarageLts' On  1 / Off 1 (Backlight Level)
        Wait  5 seconds
        Set 'Interior / Upstairs / Laundry / LaundryRight KP:A' On  1 / Off 1 (Backlight Level)
 

When removing the Set Scene from the first program did not resolve the problem, I initially added a single five second delay to the top of the Then and Else blocks in this program. However, I continued to experience All Ons, and they happened immediately when pressing the KPL button that triggers all of this. If the KPL dimming had been the issue, the All On should have happened five seconds after pressing Sleep, when this program began its Insteon traffic. Still, based on the feedback here I added delays between each Set command. I still experienced All Ons.

 

Next we dim the exterior lights, and I think this may be the program that was to blame:

Night ext lights dim - [ID 0005][Parent 002C]

If
        $Night is 1
    And $Party is not 1
    And (
             Time is 10:00:00PM
          Or $Sleep is 1
        )
 
Then
        Wait  2 seconds
        Set Scene 'Exterior / Exterior lights dim' 100%
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

Most of the time I hit "sleep" it is night time and I'm not having a party, so this program usually executes. That 2 second wait before the Set Scene was not there previously. I have not experienced another All On since adding this wait.

 

So this is where I currently stand. It seems I just have to be very careful in managing Insteon traffic by using Waits to keep things from stomping on one another.