LeeG Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 Could try a Factory Reset of KPL followed by a Restore device. Have you checked the wiring? A wire nut could have come lose.
Brian H Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 (edited) Not sure if the KPL also had tact switch issues. The early SwitchLinc Dimmer and Relay modules. Had the small tact switch the paddles activated not close when pushed. It would click but nothing happened. So one possibility is a bad tact switch. If all the verifying the Link Databases are correct and the wiring is all tight. I have not seen a KPL switch fix. I have seen one for the SwitchLincs Edited May 26, 2016 by Brian H
Algorithm Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 Not sure if the KPL also had tact switch issues. The early SwitchLinc Dimmer and Relay modules. Had the small tact switch the paddles activated not close when pushed. It would click but nothing happened. So one possibility is a bad tact switch. If all the verifying the Link Databases are correct and the wiring is all tight. I have not seen a KPL switch fix. I have seen one for the SwitchLincs I can confirm that (at least some) KPLs do have that issue. I had one KPL in a pedestal (long since replaced) on which several, but not all, of the buttons developed that very problem. Al
apostolakisl Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 Thanks LeeG - my KPL button problem started way before the PLM power issue. The button LED on the KPL does come on when pushed, but the light fixture it is controlling does not change. I'm with Lee on this. If the led comes on and off when you push the button, it is not the tact switch. If the light that is not turning on/off is the load of that switch, then it could be a loose connection on the load wire, or the KPL's switching function could be broken. If it is a light that you expect to come on because it is linked to a different Insteon device, then it is likely defective links or a com issue.
franklyn7895 Posted June 12, 2016 Posted June 12, 2016 So, I don't know if I'm the 6th person or the 66th person, but this does work. I just replaced all the caps in my device, plugged it in and everything works great. $10 for the parts and shipping, about 30 minutes in replacing them and all is good. Compared to a $50 new unit, I think it's worth it. As was stated before, if you feel comfortable in messing with PCBs, then you should be okay. If not, still get the stuff and ask a friend to help you out, you won't regret it.
kclenden Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 This works at least initially. I'll let this burn in a few days on my old isy99i just to make sure. Are you sure you used UPW2G100MHD1TO instead of ESX106M400AH4AA? I ask because the capacitors that I got when I ordered UPW2G100MHD1TO are twice as tall, and twice as wide as the original 6.8 uF 250V capacitor. Though I could probably make the leads fit, there's no way I'd ever be able to get the casing closed.
Brian H Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) Are you sure you used UPW2G100MHD1TO instead of ESX106M400AH4AA? I ask because the capacitors that I got when I ordered UPW2G100MHD1TO are twice as tall, and twice as wide as the original 6.8 uF 250V capacitor. Though I could probably make the leads fit, there's no way I'd ever be able to get the casing closed. All the replacement capacitors for the 6.8 uF 250V capacitors are physically larger. So they will stick up more from the PCB. The 6.8uF 250V measures around 10mm diameter and 12mm tall. The KEMET ESX106M400AH4AA 10uF 400V I used was 10mm diameter X 19mm tall. Most of the other ones where in approximately the same size. Do fit OK The UPW2G100MHD1T0 specifications sheet says it is larger physically. 12.5mm diameter 25mm tall. I would also be interested in knowing if it fits. Edited June 15, 2016 by Brian H
rjbur Posted June 21, 2016 Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) Well add yet another 2413S failure to the list. My wife said the power went out today and sure enough it blew my unit and it's been about 2-2.5 years.... Wait actually less since I first started with a 2413U.... Ok I found this thread and got exited, opened my unit and took it apart. Noted the daughter board design and though what the heck, I'll take my 2413U apart as well since I wasn't using it. Ends up they have the same main board! So I popped my Serial daughter board onto my 2413U main board, slapped the screws back in and IT WORKS!!! All I had to do was reboot my ISY unit. Ok, now comes the next move. I'll be ordering two sets of caps and replacing them on both my main boards. That way I'll have a hot swap ready to go. THANK YOU all, I actuall took the time to read through all 11 pages of this thread as I wanted to make sure the very first list of replacement caps was still valid. Unless I missed something, the list still looks to be the one to use. I'm going to have to post this reply and then come back and edit it as I truly want to thank the one who started all of this... BTW: someone else was going to try a daughter board swap and three was a comment about how it would show up as a U vs an S board. Show up where? My admin panel just seems to ID a 2413 without and S or U... Any how it's working... ------------ I'm back, should have just scrolled back to the top.... THANK YOU danu1964!!! It would be interesting to tally up all the saved money you have given back to all of us as these are defiantly not inexpensive units new. Edited June 21, 2016 by rjbur 1
Brian H Posted June 21, 2016 Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) I don't believe the Administrative Console will show the Serial or USB type for the 2413. Some programs check the Insteon device Category and Subcategory for the device. Both are Category 03 with the Subcategory 11 for serial and 15 for USB. Since the device type is in the main boards firmware. The USB model you chanced to the serial daughter board will report it is a USB type. Taking a serial daughter board from an older PLM like a 2412S would probably fail. As it used a different link database memory chip. That was slower in speed and in some models a different memory size capacity. It also had the fuse installed on it to provide power out of the RJ45 Serial Port Connector. Edited June 21, 2016 by Brian H
apostolakisl Posted June 21, 2016 Posted June 21, 2016 Well add yet another 2413S failure to the list. My wife said the power went out today and sure enough it blew my unit and it's been about 2-2.5 years.... Wait actually less since I first started with a 2413U.... Ok I found this thread and got exited, opened my unit and took it apart. Noted the daughter board design and though what the heck, I'll take my 2413U apart as well since I wasn't using it. Ends up they have the same main board! So I popped my Serial daughter board onto my 2413U main board, slapped the screws back in and IT WORKS!!! All I had to do was reboot my ISY unit. Ok, now comes the next move. I'll be ordering two sets of caps and replacing them on both my main boards. That way I'll have a hot swap ready to go. THANK YOU all, I actuall took the time to read through all 11 pages of this thread as I wanted to make sure the very first list of replacement caps was still valid. Unless I missed something, the list still looks to be the one to use. I'm going to have to post this reply and then come back and edit it as I truly want to thank the one who started all of this... BTW: someone else was going to try a daughter board swap and three was a comment about how it would show up as a U vs an S board. Show up where? My admin panel just seems to ID a 2413 without and S or U... Any how it's working... ------------ I'm back, should have just scrolled back to the top.... THANK YOU danu1964!!! It would be interesting to tally up all the saved money you have given back to all of us as these are defiantly not inexpensive units new. The original list of caps is no longer available. I posted substitutions a few weeks ago for the ones no longer available. I repaired mine using those substitutions and about a month into it, it still works.
apostolakisl Posted June 21, 2016 Posted June 21, 2016 Are you sure you used UPW2G100MHD1TO instead of ESX106M400AH4AA? I ask because the capacitors that I got when I ordered UPW2G100MHD1TO are twice as tall, and twice as wide as the original 6.8 uF 250V capacitor. Though I could probably make the leads fit, there's no way I'd ever be able to get the casing closed. Just saw this post and it is a week old, but yes, I am sure. The capacitor fits fine. And yes, it is a lot bigger and at first glance you are like "no way" but the thing drops right in perfectly, no jury rigging at all. 1
robr Posted June 22, 2016 Posted June 22, 2016 I just updated my PLM with the recent capacitor list and it is back in working order. That 400V capacitor is larger but it fits in with no problems. I have a bunch of spare caps! 1
danu1964 Posted June 22, 2016 Author Posted June 22, 2016 You are welcome apostolakisl . I'm glad my work has helped many of you spare the expense of another PLM. Brian H. does a great job of supporting this forum and I thank him for all his replies and help he gives everyone. If nothing else, I hope SmartHome has learned that customers care about quality engineering. The problem was clearly avoidable with a simple design review and reading the application notes for the power supply ICs. 1
plm.repair Posted June 29, 2016 Posted June 29, 2016 (edited) - REPAIR KIT- I recently re-capped my 4 year old 2413S Dual-band Powerlinc. On the suggestion of another user I put together a kit that contains the necessary components, instructions, and pictures. The kit is $18.45 and will be invoiced through PayPal so please make sure your ship to information is up to date. If you would like to order a kit and do the repair yourself just email me at plm.repair at gmail dot com Free shipping to the lower 48. Contact me for shipping outside the U.S. Edited July 1, 2016 by plm.repair
Grizzy Posted June 29, 2016 Posted June 29, 2016 - REPAIR KIT- I recently re-capped my 4 year old 2413S Dual-band Powerlinc. On the suggestion of another user I put together a kit that contains the necessary components, instructions, and pictures. If you would like to order a kit and do the repair yourself just email me at plm.repair at gmail dot com The kit is $18.45 Free shipping to the lower 48. Contact me for shipping outside the U.S. So glad you have taken the time and effort to take this on. I do have a couple questions prior to purchase. Does it matter which model PLM I have ? Are the caps the correct physical size so that I will not have to make modifications ? Are the caps rated at the higher temps as noted throughout this discussion ? Again Thanks
Brian H Posted June 29, 2016 Posted June 29, 2016 (edited) The caps are for the 2413S and 2413U. Not the old power transformer supply in the 2412S and 2412U. The kit should also work in the hardware 2.0 and above 2443 Access Points. They used the same base PLM board. Can't say about the caps now being used. As there where some different ones used depending on availability . I know mine fit though some may have been taller. The 10uf 400VDC I used was taller but was not so tall it was touching the top case or other components. Recent 2413S PLMs are supposed to have updated capacitors in them. Hardware 2.0 and above 2413 PLMs should have the updates already. The layout of the 1.0 hardware 2413S PLM had a rework to add the second capacitor and small coil in the filter. You will find the parts sticking out of the board and not soldered directly to the board. Photo in post #162 of this thread. The original RK caps in mine where rated at 105C life 2000 Hours. I am still not 100% sure the original RK capacitor was made for use in switching supplies. All the replacement I have seen are made for use in switching supplies. Most of the replacements are also 105C but may have a much higher rated life at 105C. Like 5000 Hours. Also every 10C lower than the maximum rating. Extends the life exponentially. Where you thinking about maximum working voltage? All the replacement ones I saw where a higher maximum working voltage. Edited June 30, 2016 by Brian H 1
Brian H Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) A few points.The electrolytic capacitors are polarizedThey have a + and - terminal. The capacitor will have a stripe to indicate the - terminal. The + lead on the new one should be slightly longer. Make note where the stripe is on the old one so you know the new ones orientation.The PC Board has a + screened next to the + solder pad and it is probably square.Message #132 has some nice internal photos of a V1.7 hardware PLM. I don't believe the boardhas been changed since V1.5. So it should be accurate for most PLM hardware revisions being repaired. Message #185 The file "PLM Repair.PDF" is a good set of instructions with good photos. I found a better way to handle the AC power wires in the instruction file. Just remember the capacitor polarity. Edited June 30, 2016 by Brian H 1
eduardo_garcia Posted July 4, 2016 Posted July 4, 2016 Guys Let me share my experience with 2413s repair. About 2 months ago, I started to experience several communication failures, specially when ISY should receive device status changes (to trigger programs). It was getting worst everyday, until I had a complete failure. My PLM led was on but it was not working. After unplug/plug PLM, the led turned off and never lit again. I replace the caps and the led lit again, I was able to send commands thru ISY but ISY status was not being updated. It seems that ISY was send commands but not receiving anything. I performed a restore all devices command, and after that everything started to work as designed ( I guess due to the PLM reset). To be honest, I think the communication is even faster now. I guess one of the caps is part of the powerline modem filter, and the bad cap was causing comms failure before the PLM complete failure. Bottom line, if your PLM is old (approaching 2 years of service) and you start to see comms failure, I think your should replace the caps. Dont wait for the complete plm failure. best regards ps: Michael, what about the universal devices PLM?
zurakowg Posted July 7, 2016 Posted July 7, 2016 (edited) Much cheaper alternative to Mouser as a source for capacitors, especially Canadians with extra shipping charges is Ebay (ships from Hong Kong to Ontario in about 25 days). I ordered three capacitor types from Ebay, shipping included, as follows in Canadian $ (US$ would be less): ITEM PRICE: C $1.7920PCS 50V 10uF Electrolytic Capacitor 5×11 Radial (Used this for C7, C8, C13) ITEM PRICE: C $1.79 20PCS 35V 100uF Electrolytic Capacitor 6×7 Radial (Used for C11) ITEM PRICE: C $2.3110PCS 400V 10uF Electrolytic Capacitor 10mm×13mm Radial (Used for C3) I repaired two 2413S PLM's, one older version V1.0 using the tack soldered capacitor/wire/coil combination and one newer PLM V1.B and also one 2443 Access Point V2.6. All three devices are functional now. Followup: As per valid comments from other forum members, a better choice for longevity of repairs for C7, C8, C13 might be an ultra low impedance ESR type such as 10pcs 10uF 35V Rubycon ZA 5x5mm 35V10uF Low Impedance Electrolytic Capacitor for a buck including shipping. Edited July 7, 2016 by zurakowg
Brian H Posted July 7, 2016 Posted July 7, 2016 (edited) Thanks for the information. I am glad you found a better C7,C13 and C8 replacement. Edited July 7, 2016 by Brian H
randyf Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 Count me among the (apparently long list of) folks with a failing PLM after 2-1/2 years. I'm more than capable of replacing the capacitors, but am also aware of the possibility of damage to other components. Has anyone investigated the newer PLM's to see if they are using more reliable components, or had any interaction with Smarthome/Insteon to believe that they have actually fixed the reliability in the modems? I would much prefer to replace my modem with a newer and more reliable one than to try and repair a poor quality one (note, I have a v1.B modem).
apostolakisl Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 Count me among the (apparently long list of) folks with a failing PLM after 2-1/2 years. I'm more than capable of replacing the capacitors, but am also aware of the possibility of damage to other components. Has anyone investigated the newer PLM's to see if they are using more reliable components, or had any interaction with Smarthome/Insteon to believe that they have actually fixed the reliability in the modems? I would much prefer to replace my modem with a newer and more reliable one than to try and repair a poor quality one (note, I have a v1.B modem). You might consider getting a new one and repairing the old one for a spare. Currently I have two, and I had to replace the caps on both of them. I bought a new one a little over two years ago and replaced the caps on the old one at that time. About 2 months ago, the new one died, right on schedule, and I dropped the old one with new caps in. It has worked perfectly for 2 months. The old one I recapped and "burned it in" for one month using my old ISY99 as the test vehicle and it survived the burn in. So now it sits in wait. Maybe I'll never need it.
Brian H Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) My last PLM is not that recent so things maybe even changed in the most latest ones. Hardware 2.1, Firmware 9E, 2413S PLM.C3 6.8Uf/250V, C11 100uF/25V and C8 10uF/16V. Same as hardware 1 models.C7 and C13. Now 100uF/35V Fujicon RK series capacitor.Fujicon RK specifications sheet says General Purpose, 105C Wide Temperature. Edited July 10, 2016 by Brian H
BMonfils Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 I faced a similar problem which was fixed thanks to you all on this blog. Following the change of capacitors the problem was fixed at a cost of 4$. Lets see how this one lasts. I purchased the Insteon PLM 2413S on 28 July 2013 and installed it in August 2013. It worked flawlessly until Feb 2016 when automation just stopped. I unplugged the unit for few minutes and reconnected, It worked for another 3 months then stopped working permanently. I asked for advice from www.AARTECH.ca from whom I purchased the unit. They have always been honest with their product support. On Ticket ID MWM-464-29274 - Mike from ARRTECH replied on 4 July 2016: "We have heard of people replacing the capacitors and be successfull, but as a company we can not suggest doing that. On a good note, the newer PLM's have been good for us and not failing as the older ones have. Kind Regards. " AARTECH sells the Insteon PLM 2413S just Under $100 Canadian plus shipping. Thans all!
Brian H Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 The updated 2413S PLM has not been in use for just over two years yet. That is when they typically failed. So longevity is still to be determined.
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