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Repair of 2413S PLM When the Power Supply Fails

danu1964

By danu1964
in Insteon

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Brian H Advanced

Brian H

Posted
Posted (edited)

I may not have been clear.

It was from the unregulated +12 to earth ground on the outlet  and the common supply side to earth ground on the outlet the 2413S was plugged into. The resistors did not change the actual 20.4VDC from +12 to supply common.

Measured on the serial daughter board found in the below V2.3 PLM as the latest has a redesigned daughter board. Ground tab on the daughter boards +5 volt regulator chip and the supply side of the unpopulated  F1 fuse pad. That use to supply the voltage out the serial port in the 2412S PLM.

Edited by Brian H
Breezyken New

Breezyken

Posted
Posted

OK, now that makes sense since there is no common reference point between AC ground/neutral and the 12 (20) volt unregulated supply.  That can float almost anywhere referenced to "ground".  Let's hope these things keep working until a quality interface becomes available.

  • 3 weeks later...
bluerogueman Newbie

bluerogueman

Posted
Posted

Add me to the list of people who resurected their PLM V1.B. Great success!

Had to order the parts from Mouser because Digikey in Canada had a minimum order quantity. ? Took a while to receive my order in Quebec, but still much cheaper than buying a new unit.

In the meantime, I had ordered a new PLM anyway from Aartech. They were on back order.

Ironically, received the new PLM (rev. 2.6 unit) and the parts from Mouser on the same day. Will likely keep the PLM, just in case.

larryllix Advanced

larryllix

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Brian H said:

Glad it worked for you and the report on the latest revision 2.6. Last I saw was 2.5.

I received a v2.6 PLM today from aartech.ca

  • 5 months later...
hart2hart Advanced

hart2hart

Posted
Posted
USB-to-Serial converters, at least those I've seen and used, go the wrong direction.  If you have a link to one going the other way, I'm interested!
I had a need when last my Serial PLM died to put my USB PLM in service, exactly as you suggest.  I ended up writing some software on a Raspberry Pi to act as a middleman.  The RPi's serial port connected to the ISY, and the USB PLM plugged into the RPI's USB ports.  It worked fine for the period of time I needed it (until my replacement capacitors came in and I got the serial PLM repaired).
Since then I've wondered if it was possible to swap out the USB daughterboard inside the USB PLM for the serial one from an old (failed) Serial PLM... need to try that at some point.

I was about to look at writing same software. Do you still have it and would you share it? Several members are in need of PLM and only the usb version is in stock.
hart2hart Advanced

hart2hart

Posted
Posted


Brian. This thread has grown so long and you’re the expert. Would you consider a recap (pardon the pun) of which capacitors to be replaced and the best replacement parts from say mouser? It looks like the need to repair is going to increase and it would be a big help for first timers.
io_guy Advanced

io_guy

Posted
Posted
On 7/10/2021 at 6:48 PM, Brian H said:

I will see what I can find out.

That would be great.  My PLM is on the way out too.  If I have to read 500 posts to get the parts list I'm just throwing Insteon in the garbage and buying 50 zen77s. 

  • Like 1
Brian H Advanced

Brian H

Posted
Posted (edited)

Well many of the stock numbers on Mouser have a Zero in stock tag. With some expected next year and others are no date known.

This blog on a 2413U repair. Same main board in both. Seems to be a good read. https://1projectaweek.com/blog/2017/6/2/repairing-a-failed-insteon-powerlinc-power-line-modem-plm-2413u

All of the capacitors it called out are still in Mouser stock (yesterday) except the 100uF/50V. One is a general purpose but in a circuit that should be OK with it.

I may try the part numbers I used to see if they have any stock and find a 100uF/50V as I used the older 10uF/50V for C7 and C13.

Edited by Brian H
Brian H Advanced

Brian H

Posted
Posted (edited)

I did a few double checks and I don't think there are any errors.

C7 and C13. 100uF/50V or 10uF/50V.  Earlier ones where 10uF. Smarthome changed to 100uF. May have to lay 100uF on it size.  Most are using 100uF/50V for the 10uF/50V. https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/EPCOS-TDK/B41858C6107M000?qs=ziqVJVjjmkzaaRB22pWdiA%3D%3D.   https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/EEU-FR1H100?qs=tfZGHB2PWd1NAbdNSgjToQ%3D%3D

C3 10uF/400V  https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/647-UPW2G100MHD1TO?r=647-UPW2G100MHD1TO

C8 10uF/16V  https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/USV1C100MFD?qs=6UFrbFY2dcTclg9NCH6OBw%3D%3D

C11 100uF/25V  https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UTT1E101MPD?qs=isV%2BNJxyrb747oJy1YayIg%3D%3D

Edited by Brian H
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hart2hart Advanced

hart2hart

Posted
Posted

Thank you!I glad you located a good equivalent for the C7 and C13.
io_guy Advanced

io_guy

Posted
Posted

Thanks Brian,

FYI to all the Canucks.  All the parts are also available (currently in stock) on digikey with cheaper price and shipping.  

  • Thanks 1
io_guy Advanced

io_guy

Posted
Posted

So I received the parts, took apart my PLM (v2.1) and things don't quite match:

C7 (100/50V): Actual is 100/35V, new cap much bigger diameter.
C13 (100/50V): Actual is 100/35V, new cap much bigger diameter.
C3 (10/400V):  Actual is 8/250V, new cap is gigantic (1" long, 7/16" dia).  I doubt it will fit.
C8 (10/16V): OK
C11 (100/25V): Specs match, new cap much bigger diameter.

Is there a photo in the 25 pages of these things fitting?

Teken Advanced

Teken

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, io_guy said:

So I received the parts, took apart my PLM (v2.1) and things don't quite match:

C7 (100/50V): Actual is 100/35V, new cap much bigger diameter.
C13 (100/50V): Actual is 100/35V, new cap much bigger diameter.
C3 (10/400V):  Actual is 8/250V, new cap is gigantic (1" long, 7/16" dia).  I doubt it will fit.
C8 (10/16V): OK
C11 (100/25V): Specs match, new cap much bigger diameter.

Is there a photo in the 25 pages of these things fitting?

That giant 400V soda can indeed does fit inside of the casing. You have really two choices which is flush mount the cap as close as possible while leaving enough lead to adjust.

You can tell it just fits as the top board shows you the total clearance within the casing with a small amount of gap.

Or leave the entire length of the leads, solder, and bend so it lays on the board floating around.

Had photo's of both methods but got lost on my iPhone 5.

Brian H Advanced

Brian H

Posted
Posted (edited)

The capacitors especially C7 and C13. Have been changed by Smarthome many times. In an attempt to try and fix the power supply issues. They finally went to a 100uF/50V and rated for a switching power supply at V2.3, some earlier revisions had 100uF 35V or 50V. Your C7 and C13 100uF/35V caps where in some of the revisions. One of my original V1.0 has a 10uF/25V and rework to add the coil and both capacitors hanging off the PC Board with a fly wire to back of the PCB. Another common C7 and C13 where 10uF/35V.

The C7  and C13 100uF/50V where too big to fit the board space and hole pattern. In those right from the factory. Are laying bent flat on the board with their leads bent to fit into the original board solder pads. There maybe a photo buried in the thread showing them. You will probably have to lay them on the board and connect them to the solder pads. Being careful the leads don't short to things.

Edited by Brian H
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austin_john Member

austin_john

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi - I have browsed through quite a bit of this thread, but not every post.  It seems that it was suggested that you can get a PLM 2413U and replace the USB daughter board with a 2413S daughter board?  Did I understand that correctly?  It seems too easy to be true.

Edited by austin_john
Brian H Advanced

Brian H

Posted
Posted

It has been suggested. I don't know if anyone has tried it and reported back with results.

I did a quick test with a 2412U USB PLM and daughter board from a 2413S. The 2413 serial board has a faster link memory speed.  So putting it in a 2412 should not effect it. It did work in my brief tests with some PLM test software. I did not try it in any further tests. The USB PLM with a serial port daughter board. Will report it is a USB model not a serial model. As they have a different subcategory ID when they are interrogated by software or connected controller.  May or may not effect its use. Depends on what is connected to it and if it check for serial or USB.

Brian H Advanced

Brian H

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, austin_john said:

Ok, I ordered a 2413U, so we’ll see what happens.

Let us know if it works with an ISY994i controller.

I know the ISY994i checks for a connected PLM at startup. I don't think it uses the subcategory ID. So the serial connected 2413U reporting USB. Should not effect things.

Edited by Brian H
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