ptcolombo Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Happy to report that my PLM V1.0 is back up and working. Brian, your suggestion to tie the (-)'s of C7 & C13 worked. Although when I powered it up, I got nothing. No LED lights, nothing. Pulled the unit apart again and then proceeded to replace C11 and C3, primarily because they were the next two easiest to replace. When I plugged it in this time, Got a short red flash from the LED and then in a few seconds a continuous green. Plugged in the ISY and opened the Admin Consol. Low and behold, everything was registering and communicating. We'll wait and see how permanent the repair is. If I get another few years, I'll be thrilled. Thanks to all on this board and especially Brian and Shawn (plm.repair@gmail.com). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSalmonMousse Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I admit I do not have the skills to repair my dead 2413s I purchased in November of 2013. Does anyone know a place that will do the repair so I don't have to drop another $65? Any word on whether they have fixed the obvious issue? Thanks in advance for a reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSalmonMousse Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Any rumors if anything has been done to rectify the obvious shortcoming of this product over the last couple years? Have newer versions come out with more quality "innards" that might make the product life longer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Smartlabs has changed out several capacitors to help improve the two year failure rate. They have also removed the ALL ON / ALL OFF commands to help resolve that issue. All of the latest production hardware have also removed the same command sets. ========================= The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolsonB Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Version 1.B here, I have C7 and C13 as the older 10uF 35V. Should I switch them to 100uf / 35V? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Version 1.B here, I have C7 and C13 as the older 10uF 35V. Should I switch them to 100uf / 35V? If you make sure the 100uF 35V replacements are a Low ESR type . They should work. My new one from Smarthome seems to have the same questionable brand in it. Just changed from 10uF to 100uF. I did not see any other component changes in later one i have with the 100uF 35V ones. Using the original 10uF 35V Low ESR replacements would also be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolsonB Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 If you make sure the 100uF 35V replacements are a Low ESR type . They should work. My new one from Smarthome seems to have the same questionable brand in it. Just changed from 10uF to 100uF. I did not see any other component changes in later one i have with the 100uF 35V ones. Using the original 10uF 35V Low ESR replacements would also be fine. Digikey label a lot of them as "General Purpose", found one with impedance of 250 mOhm. Sweet, I love the internet. All is well now, back up and running. I also cleaned a lot of flux on the bottom side of board, pretty sloppy work Insteon ! Digikey C11 = 493-3276-ND (100uF @ 25V) C7,C13 = 1189-1860-ND (100uF @ 50V) C3 = 493-12079-1-ND (10uF @ 400V) C8 = 493-10329-1-ND (10uF @ 16V) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I also noticed that Digi-Key has some marked as General Purpose. Kind of confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
502ss Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 So nobody has been able to determine if this issue has been fixed yet with newer units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 So nobody has been able to determine if this issue has been fixed yet with newer units? They are just getting close to the age where older ones started to go bad. So there is not too much data yet. I do occasionally take the top off of mine and measure the unregulated 12 volt supply and look for swollen or leaking caps. So far nothing found. About time to look again. Firmware 9E {maybe higher now} was supposed to help with the All On events some where seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPB Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I just wanted to drop a note here... I replaced the caps on my old, broken 2413S (v1.5 with a build of 1130). I followed this whole thread and went to Mouser to pick the parts. Here's what I ended up getting which varied only slightly from the very first post: 1 x ESX106M400AH4AA 10uF 400V 2 x EEU-EB1H100S 10uF 50V 1 x USV1C100MFD 10uF 16V 1 x UHE1E101MED 100uF 25V The only one I had to find an alternate for was the 10uF 16V since the one from the original post is no longer available. The other ones were all in stock at Mouser when I ordered, and I got enough to replace 4 sets if I had to. Makes sense... the cost per cap isn't high and you're paying for shipping anyway... might as well spend a couple extra bucks for spares. The desoldering was the hardest part for me. I already had a solder sucker and desoldering braid, but my solder kung fu was weak and it just took longer than I thought it would. I did finally get all 5 done with some patience. I did one cap at a time and I started with C7 & C13 since it sounded like those are the most likely to be the bad ones. I was tempted to call it quits then and just see if it worked, but I figured I might as well persevere and replace the rest while I had everything setup. In the end, I have a working 2413S PLM which is great. It's been sitting in my parts bin for nearly 2 years (my new one is v2.0 dated 1444, so almost 2 years exactly). I tested the old one with Houselinc software just to make sure it was communicating okay. Paired it with a Lamplinc I had lying around and it seems fine. I now have a good spare I can use if/when my new v2.0 dies. There was one odd thing... when the repaired unit is sending signals, I can actually hear it. I had it plugged into an extension cord right next to my keyboard while I was testing, and it kind of "buzzes" in time with any data it's modulating onto the powerline. It's not super loud and if it wasn't right next to me I wouldn't have heard it. I don't know if it ever did that before, or if anyone else has ever noticed. I've heard electronics "buzz" in my experience and it could indeed be related to the caps. It's not going to hurt anything and it still worked, and like I said, it's actually pretty quiet unless your ear is right there, but it was strange. Anyway... chalk up another successful re-cap to this thread, and thanks to the original poster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apostolakisl Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I find the best way to un-solder is to use my air compressor. Of course you first get the solder liquefied, then "poof". I use blue tape to mask off stuff I don't want solder to spray on. But even if you don't the solder spray doesn't bond, you can just wipe it off with your finger. It works very well and gets the holes through the board essentially 100% clear of solder in a split second. Update on my repair. Still working, more than 6 months online now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruefood Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 First, let me say how much I love this thread and OP (danu1964) and Brian H for all their hard work. Second let me say how disappointed I was to see everyone say they could be added to the list of people with broken and fixed devices only to find out there was no actual list...so here's your list... danu1964 (OP) 3 failures at least 1 fixed Panda88 1 failed 1 fixed LeeFleishman 1 failed 1 fixed LeeFleishman 2 failed 2 fixed 1 Preventive fix Steven 1 failed 1 partial repair and fixed but didn't last LeeFleishman 0 failed 0 fixed 1 Preventive fixed apostolakisl 2 failed 2 fixed ergodic 1 failed 1 fixed fmark 1 failed 1 fixed GeorgeRufle 1 failed 0 fixed uy6n 1 failed 0 fixed ertyu 1 failed arw01 1 failed 1 fixed lithiumus 1 failed bfranske 1 failed 1 fixed dmwolff 1 failed 1 fixed taterb 1 failed 0 fixed mcheavens 2 failed 2 fixed whistlepigger 1 failed 1 fixed ixlr8 1 failed 1 fixed deaconwc 1 failed 0 fixed wojo 1 failed 1 fixed Kentinada 1 failed (I assume) jgorm 1 failed wrj0 1 failed 1 fixed BCreekDave 1 failed 1 fixed Jay 1 failed avwuff 1 failed 1 fixed tome 1 failed 1 fixed chelmite 1 failed jakekooser at least 2 failed (could have been a 3rd failed?) jumon 1 failed 1 fixed jackman 1 failed 1 fixed 2112 1 failed benderdave 2 failed 1 fixed dlorenzo 2 failed 2 fixed i814u2 1 failed 1 fixed dexterdom 1 failed 1 fixed MikeD 1 failed 1 fixed dacross 1 failed Harold 1 failed diggler 1 failed 1 fixed jackery 1 failed orrd 1 failed thehose 1 failed drinkwater 2 failed 1 fixed plm.repair 1 failed 1 fixed smbenson 1 failed gravymaker 1 failed 1 fixed franklyn7895 1 failed 1 fixed (You are way closer to the 66th than the 6th) rjbur 1 failed robr 1 failed 1 fixed Grizzy 1 failed eduardo_garcia 1 faied 1 fixed zurakowg 3 failed 3 fixed randyf 1 failed BMonfils 1 failed 1 fixed jondaddio 1 failed 1 fixed BMFurrButt 2 failed 1 fixed (Counting your brother) The_Penguin 1 failed 1 fixed dimensionzero 1 failed 1 fixed ptcolombo 1 failed 1 fixed scuba357 1 failed MolsonB 1 failed 1 fixed MPB 1 failed 1 fixed gruefood 1 failed Brian H 3 failed 3 fixed (including 2 2443 Hardware 2.5 Access Points) waffles 3 failed 2 fixed jch 3 failed (2 2413S and 1 2412S if I read that right (Updated by jch)) Breezyken 1 failed and 1 fixed. Morris Hansen 1 failed and 1 fixed IOlinc tomd 1 failed and 1 fixed EZIO40 4 Pat525 1 failed and 1 fixed jtara92101 1 failed 1 fixed JackL 1 failed (I don't think you actually fixed it but only used a spare) classicmac 1 failed 1 fixed MarkB 1 failed 1 fixed fmk2 1 failed 1 fixed billchurch 1 failed 1 fixed m6bigdog 1 failed and fixed PLM and 1 failed and fixed AP 98 total confirmed failed and 63 total confirmed fixed. If it wasn't completely obvious to me that you fixed yours I may have left yours off. Just send me a note if you want to be added! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruefood Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Seems R5 might have exceeded normal operating temperatures...I've ordered the caps for a fix but I'll probably have to replace R5 and maybe C6 as well. I also ordered a new PLM that should be here tomorrow, (I love Amazon's under promise over deliver mentality, it arrived today), but would be nice to fix this one as a back up. http://i.imgur.com/yZ1YEpn.jpg Of course, there may be way more wrong that just what you can see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Gee that doesn't look too good. Kind of burned stuff partially clouding the run layout in the photo. If C6 is in series with R5 and they are parallel to D6. It maybe a noise reducer across D6. I would definitely look at C6 is failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffles Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Hi gruefood; You can add me to the list: 3 failed, 2 fixed (for now) Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jch Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Add me to the list of folks with a failed 2413S. I ordered this one just about exactly three years ago. Before that I went through two 2412S units in five years. Caps are on order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jch Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Was looking in my cabinet of HA parts and found my last 2413S, it's a V1.0. When it died I opened it up looking at why it was damaged. Maybe I should try replacing the caps in that one too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teverk Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 I actually emailed INSTEON tech support on this issue,2 weeks later I received a reply stating they have replaced the capacitors in question with higher grade capacitors and this should no longer be an issue. I believe they are aware of this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwester Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Based on comments elsewhere in this thread, the newer Insteon PLMs appear to have higher value capacitors, but alas, there's no indication that they are any higher quality (same manufacturer, same type, same physical size, just higher capacitance). I, for one, am highly skeptical of their claim that the problem is fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Unless this upgraded capacitor brand is very recent. My V2.1 has the same questionable brand capacitors as my old V1.5. Just went from 10uF to 100uf for C7 and C13. Recently we have also seen a few reports of new 2413S PLMs failing in a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCreekDave Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Has anybody had s self repaired PLM fail yet? The repairs have been out there for two years now? I would think some would have failed by now. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Has anybody had s self repaired PLM fail yet? The repairs have been out there for two years now? I would think some would have failed by now. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I also have not seen any reports yet. If good quality name brand, low ESR capacitors where used. I would expect them to run much longer. Over the questionable brand Smartlabs used in the PLM. Where they failed. Making the power supply die. If the repair was not done well. With poor soldering, overheating PCB runs, solder shorts during capacitor replacement. Then I could see some early failures or the repair failed completely. If other parts where stressed due to the failing power supply. I could see some short time failures with the replacement capacitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumon Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 I also have not seen any reports yet. If good quality name brand, low ESR capacitors where used. I would expect them to run much longer. Over the questionable brand Smartlabs used in the PLM. Where they failed. Making the power supply die. If the repair was not done well. With poor soldering, overheating PCB runs, solder shorts during capacitor replacement. Then I could see some early failures or the repair failed completely. If other parts where stressed due to the failing power supply. I could see some short time failures with the replacement capacitors. Not sure if this applies but I had done only a partial repair of two caps. It lasted about a month before the others went. I have been running on the repaired plm since then. Added two vent holes top and bottom as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apostolakisl Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 First, let me say how much I love this thread and OP (danu1964) and Brian H for all their hard work. Second let me say how disappointed I was to see everyone say they could be added to the list of people with broken and fixed devices only to find out there was no actual list...so here's your list... danu1964 (OP) 3 failures at least 1 fixed Panda88 1 failed 1 fixed LeeFleishman 1 failed 1 fixed LeeFleishman 2 failed 2 fixed 1 Preventive fix Steven 1 failed 1 partial repair and fixed but didn't last LeeFleishman 0 failed 0 fixed 1 Preventive fixed apostolakisl 1 failed 1 fixed ergodic 1 failed 1 fixed fmark 1 failed 1 fixed GeorgeRufle 1 failed 0 fixed uy6n 1 failed 0 fixed ertyu 1 failed arw01 1 failed 1 fixed lithiumus 1 failed bfranske 1 failed 1 fixed dmwolff 1 failed 1 fixed taterb 1 failed 0 fixed mcheavens 2 failed 2 fixed whistlepigger 1 failed 1 fixed ixlr8 1 failed 1 fixed deaconwc 1 failed 0 fixed wojo 1 failed 1 fixed Kentinada 1 failed (I assume) jgorm 1 failed wrj0 1 failed 1 fixed BCreekDave 1 failed 1 fixed Jay 1 failed avwuff 1 failed 1 fixed tome 1 failed 1 fixed chelmite 1 failed jakekooser at least 2 failed (could have been a 3rd failed?) jumon 1 failed 1 fixed jackman 1 failed 1 fixed 2112 1 failed benderdave 2 failed 1 fixed dlorenzo 2 failed 2 fixed i814u2 1 failed 1 fixed dexterdom 1 failed 1 fixed MikeD 1 failed 1 fixed dacross 1 failed Harold 1 failed diggler 1 failed 1 fixed jackery 1 failed orrd 1 failed thehose 1 failed drinkwater 2 failed 1 fixed plm.repair 1 failed 1 fixed smbenson 1 failed apostolakisl 1 failed 1 fixed gravymaker 1 failed 1 fixed franklyn7895 1 failed 1 fixed (You are way closer to the 66th than the 6th) rjbur 1 failed robr 1 failed 1 fixed Grizzy 1 failed eduardo_garcia 1 faied 1 fixed zurakowg 3 failed 3 fixed randyf 1 failed BMonfils 1 failed 1 fixed jondaddio 1 failed 1 fixed BMFurrButt 2 failed 1 fixed (Counting your brother) The_Penguin 1 failed 1 fixed dimensionzero 1 failed 1 fixed ptcolombo 1 failed 1 fixed scuba357 1 failed MolsonB 1 failed 1 fixed MPB 1 failed 1 fixed gruefood 1 failed Brian H 3 failed 3 fixed (including 2 2443 Hardware 2.5 Access Points) waffles 3 failed 2 fixed jch 4 failed (2 2413S and 2 2412S if I read that right) 87 total confirmed failed and 52 total confirmed fixed. If it wasn't completely obvious to me that you fixed yours I may have left yours off. Just send me a note if you want to be added! You can update me to 2 failed and 2 fixed. I am running off of one of my fixed units for a while now, maybe 6 months. I repaired it in 4/2014, tested it for a month, and then put it away as a backup. The new one I purchased to replace it died after 2 years and 2 months, in June of this year. So I swapped it out with my repaired backup unit and have been going fine since. I then fixed the newer one and tested it for about a month before putting it in storage as a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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