Repair of 2413S PLM When the Power Supply Fails

[Brian H]

Thank you for the information. Even if not being openly sold . As least we finally got confirmation eventually they will be selling them.

100uF/35V started in my V2.1. A V2.3 changed to 100uF/50V laying sideways due to physical size.

If you can read the manufactures name and capacitor series on them. They may have not changed the values from V2.4 but hopefully ones made to be in switching power supplies. Since they are fastened down with component glue. If you can't read them maybe what you will find out.

It probably also has the updated serial port daughter board with more static protective parts on it.

[apostolakisl]

I got a 2.5 today from SH.  Build date was 4718 (End of Nov 2018)

[Brian H]

Sounds like they may finally have the V2.5 in the stock chain. I would not be too surprised if some V2.4 modules may get mixed in for awhile.

[ELA]

EZ-Flora Resurrected

Replaced C7 & C13 and back working again.   Many thanks to the pioneers of this issue.

 

[Brian H]

Glad you EZ-Flora is back up and running.

From what I saw on the Smartenit Forum before it was discontinued. They where having the same power supply issues we have with the 2413S. As they used a base 2413 board for their later Dual Band modules. I now see them saying they are back on a base power line only 2412 main board. Manufactured for them by by Smarthome.

[ELA]

Hi Brian,

I looked at their site and saw they sell for $125 but I did not know they had gone back to the 2412 main board.   I do like the dual band aspect and so am now extra happy with the $3 fix.

My grass is happy too!

[Brian H]

Using a 2412 main board is not pointed out. Just sales site saying unit may not look the same as the photo. So my thoughts where it is now a 2412 just not exactly pointed out.

Their model PLM does specify it may look different and is on a 2412 main board. The pass through outlet on the front is back and specified as power  line only.

Glad your lawn is happy. Mine is kind of dried out.

[brians]

On 8/17/2019 at 12:35 PM, ELA said:

EZ-Flora Resurrected

Replaced C7 & C13 and back working again.   Many thanks to the pioneers of this issue.

 

I may try this. Mine just died. Just the two caps?

[Brian H]

I would take the top cover off of the EZ-Flora and see if the main board is a 2413 board. As shown in the photo.

If it is the older 2412 main board. With the power transformer power supply. It is completely different. Layout and capacitors.

From the Developers Guide. C1 1000uF/25V, C5 100uF/6.3V and C8 470uf/50V. C1 and C8 are in the main power supply and C5 is in the Zero Crossing Detector.

[brians]

I took my failed EZFlora apart and seems to be a 2412 board.  You think I should change the capacitors anyways - do these fail the same way as a 2413?

Can I also take the Ez rain board and plug it into any other working plm or do the revisions have to be same as original?

[Brian H]

The power supplies are different between the 2413 and 2412 main boards. Replacing the capacitors may help. As over time they can dry out.

From what I have seen. The firmware on the main board is the same as in a PLM and the custom daughter board has the  modules features on it. So plugging the daughter board from the EZFlora into another main PLM board may work. Unless the daughter board is the part with an issue.

[ELA]

Hello Brian,

This made me think...

I know you can use any PLM for an EZIOCOMM ( as used with the separate 8SA module) and that was because the 8SA module writes the Category and sub-Cat. to the PLM when attached serially.

I do not know where the Category and sub. Cat. values get stored in memory, do you?  

The Links are stored in EEProm on the daughterbrd.  I wonder if Category and sub Cat are there also or in the Micro-Controller memory space?

 

[Brian H]

Not too sure where it is stored. I know there is a 0x66 code you can send to the PLM to Set the Host Device Category and a 0x60 Get IM Info that reports the the information.

I have seen some of the Smartenit all in one modules. When powered up the Set LED flashes On and Off a few times. Probably the daughter board setting the Category and Subcategory for the Smartenit model and not the standard ones for a PLM.

[Ltek]

Guys, I have an old 2413S v 1.B that doesn't power up.  Which cap is most likely died on mine? 

At home I have 10uF 50v (enough to replace all the 10uF caps) and also have 100uF 25v but not any 6.8uF caps and no caps above 50v.

What I gathered, here's the list of the existing caps...

C3    6.8uF    250v
C11    100uF    25v
C13    10uF    35v
C7    10uF    35v
C8    10uF    16v
C2    10uF    16v
C5    10uF    16v

thx!

 

[Brian H]

C7 and C13 are the ones in the switching power supply and the ones I would suspect. They should be a capacitor designed for switching power supplies. The V2.3 and above have  a 100uF/50VDC laying sideways  and now a Fujicon TY series made for switching power supplies. I have used a 10uF 50V cap in both the C7 and C13 positions with good results.

C2 and C5 are they the ones on the serial port daughter board?

[MFBra]

Sorry if you consider it off topic, but i had 2 Dimmers failing exactly in the same way. Lost comm with PLM and when i try to switch on the light it “ramp up” but stops, turn off light and ramp up again indefinitely... 

The first failed probably 2 months ago, and the second just did. Everything else is working reliably. I’m wondering if it can be some sort of capacitor failure... Unfortunately I’m not experienced to replace them but i can find someone here in Brazil to do it.

Extras : Both were operating with incandescent load, one of them with 2x50w lamps and the other with 4x50w, one of them with ~10years and the other ~2years. None of them with constant usage, I’d say around 1-2hs/day maximum.

Thanks!

[apostolakisl]

9 hours ago, MFBra said:

Sorry if you consider it off topic, but i had 2 Dimmers failing exactly in the same way. Lost comm with PLM and when i try to switch on the light it “ramp up” but stops, turn off light and ramp up again indefinitely... 

The first failed probably 2 months ago, and the second just did. Everything else is working reliably. I’m wondering if it can be some sort of capacitor failure... Unfortunately I’m not experienced to replace them but i can find someone here in Brazil to do it.

Extras : Both were operating with incandescent load, one of them with 2x50w lamps and the other with 4x50w, one of them with ~10years and the other ~2years. None of them with constant usage, I’d say around 1-2hs/day maximum.

Thanks!

I fixed several misbehaving 2476d switches by replacing capacitors.  I still have them but they are in retirement.  I don't recall which caps I replaced.

[BobMic]

I had one of my  EZFlora Controllers stop responding so swapped it out with my spare and pulled out my kit of 2413-x capacitors and changed them out.  When I try to link it to teat it fails with the "can not determine Insteon engine".  I checked the power supplies and they seem fine at about 22v and 5v.  I left my scope at work so can't check the ripple right now but am starting to think it may have not been a power supply poroblem.  An added twist is that the address tag is missing so I restored an old backup to get the address but I am as sure I one can be that I have the correct address.  I have done a reset in the EZFlora several times and it does what it's supposed to do , red LED and buzzer for about 10 seconds then LED goes green when I release.  Is there anything else that I can check? 

 

Thanks,

Bob

[Brian H]

If you are unsure of the six digit Insteon ID. You could try the Start Linking method to try and add it as a test.

You did put the Daughter Board back and it is not one pin off or pin is bent  in the plug?

[BobMic]

Yes I made sure the pins engaged properly and even tested the voltage on the daughter card to male sure they were electrically engaged. 

I tried to auto link with the event viewer open on level 3 but the EZFlora doesn't go into "link mode" when I hold the set button.  I tried one of my other EZFloras and it goes into link mode when the button is held but also didn't show up on the log or linking GUI.  Thanks for the try, at least I know it is acting different than the good one by not entering linking mode.  Pretty sure linking is a function of the 2413X and not the EZFlora daughter card.  I may take the good one apart and test that by swapping the daughter cards.

[Brian H]

When you first power it up. The LED on the side should flicker a few times. That should be the daughter board setting up the PLM base board. To report its Category and Subcategory  numbers to identify it as a EZFlora and not a 2413 PLM.

I believe linking is done on the 2413 base board. Though it could be the daughter board setting something like ignore the set button linking.

Before Smartenit shutdown their Forums. I did see them indicate they had issues with the dual band base board. Power supply is high on my list. They now use the older 2412 base board. That is power line only and made for them by Smarthome.

[BobMic]

It doesn't look like it does the handshake when I plug it in, LED just goes green solid.

 

I have one of their units with the 2412.  I thought it was an older version, it's labeled EZRain V1, has a blue LED and doesn't have a removable connector.  It's the one I used to replace the problem one.  It has a different daughter board also.  Much smaller to leave room for the big transformer of the 2412.

 

[Brian H]

EZRain was the name of the older model. Before the Rain Sensor and  Water Meter Sensor interface was added. They also changed their name from originally  Compacta to SimpleHomeNet and now Smartenit.

The presently sold 5010A EZFlora and 5010Z Rain Bee 8 {adds ZigBee to the module along with X10 and Insteon}. Both are specified as Power Line Only, Though the Dual Band module photos seem to be what is shown. Both  are marked, Product appearance maybe different than what is shown.

If you have a spare PLM. You could try the Smartenit Utility available in the resources tab for the EZFlora. To see it it responds and reports. It is version 2.0. I have the later one 2.03b but that seems to have disappeared.

My flashing of the LED may not be right for the Dual Band Ones. I only have used their older models on the 2412 base board.

If you have not looked in the section for the EZRain/EZIO/EZSnSRF section here. You may find something there. https://forum.universal-devices.com/forum/5-ezrainezioezsnsrf/

[EngMarc]

On 9/16/2014 at 3:59 PM, Brian H said:

If your PLM is real new. It may have the updated brand capacitors and larger capacity C7/C13 in it already.

Maybe a peek under the top cover may reveal something.

What should we use for the C7/C13 change out (has Fujicon 100uF 35v in there)?

 

Also, I tried using the EKY 10uF 50v  to replace the FUJICON 100uF 35v. At first it lit up the side light but then there was a flash and it went dead. On dissembly, the below pic shows the resistors which straddle the black 110v lead. I can’t quite tell if its  Red-Violet-Black-Gold or not as it burned the bands. The other resistor next to it is Red-Violet-Black-Gold. Does anyone have any experience with these and ideas why one shorted? 

 

I’m sniffing around the circuit but haven’t found anything off yet. Without a circuit diagram it’s kind of just hunt and peck so to speak. 

[Brian H]

There is a power supply area schematic in page 12 of this very long thread.  Post 282. The rev 1.1 is the later of the two.

Yes it is a 27 Ohm resistor. Red Violet Black 27 Ohms Gold 5%. Used as a fuse and surge reducing. Maybe dark but can you verify it is actually open or very high in resistance. It may have some flame rating and don't know the wattage off hand.

Depends on which resistor is burned as to what it was protecting.  My guess is R2 in the schematic as it is in the main power supply. R10 in the schematic is for the small Zero Crossing supply.

Was the 10uF/35V you used for C7. The input for the filter? My thought are it was not a good capacitor for switching power supply use. It failed and maybe overloading the R2 protective  resistor. Or you had a short from replacement soldering.

Can't say to what 100uF/50V capacitors being used lately. As some of the originals use are no longer manufactured. One made for switching supplies, 105C or higher and long life ratings would be best.