Now what have I done??

[YW84U]

Hi All,

 

In an attempt to resolve some iffy communications with a switch off in the 'electrical distance', I decided to install 4 extra 2476D's around the house. The one switch would not respond faithfully to ISY programs, and was less than 50% reliable with a link to a KPL button.

 

I've added all the new switches, (performed factory resets), and have found that ISY cannot see any of them. In fact, I now notice that ISY cannot see any of the previously working switches either The current states are just a mess! I receive the 'cannot communicate' alerts whenever I query a device, and no response to on/off. I have rebooted PLM/ISY, airgapped all new switches one by one to remove them from the equation........ My comms outside of the PLM seem better, as the distant switch now responds to 99% of the KPL strikes. The device to device links appear to work (I just tested by linking a KPL to a new switch with success, although it does not control it 100%), but nada from the PLM side of things....I had noticed that over the last week or so even some of the IR events would have to be tried two or three times to get them to work as well.

 

Is my PLM toasted? Is there a way to check? I still get the odd LED wink here and there when nothing should be on the powerline either (one of my earlier posts). When listening closely to it, it has a slight hum....methinks that cannot be a good sign.

 

Any ideas as to what I can try to resolve it? I miss my ISY, and was looking forward to playing with four new devices!

 

Thanks in Advance,

[Brian H]

A slight hum maybe normal. The PLM does have a power transformer in it that may hum slightly. Is it hot or smelling like something is burning?

 

Have you done anything to find the signals being randomly sent. Could be power line noise that is making the communications strange.

[Sub-Routine]

I would disconnect (air gap) all four new switches and see if you are back to normal.

 

You don't say how many links you might have. Could you have hit the limit?

 

Rand

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi YW84U,

 

Most importantly: what version of PLM do you have (you can check this using Tools->Diagnostics->PLM Status/Info).

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Hi All,

 

In an attempt to resolve some iffy communications with a switch off in the 'electrical distance', I decided to install 4 extra 2476D's around the house. The one switch would not respond faithfully to ISY programs, and was less than 50% reliable with a link to a KPL button.

 

I've added all the new switches, (performed factory resets), and have found that ISY cannot see any of them. In fact, I now notice that ISY cannot see any of the previously working switches either The current states are just a mess! I receive the 'cannot communicate' alerts whenever I query a device, and no response to on/off. I have rebooted PLM/ISY, airgapped all new switches one by one to remove them from the equation........ My comms outside of the PLM seem better, as the distant switch now responds to 99% of the KPL strikes. The device to device links appear to work (I just tested by linking a KPL to a new switch with success, although it does not control it 100%), but nada from the PLM side of things....I had noticed that over the last week or so even some of the IR events would have to be tried two or three times to get them to work as well.

 

Is my PLM toasted? Is there a way to check? I still get the odd LED wink here and there when nothing should be on the powerline either (one of my earlier posts). When listening closely to it, it has a slight hum....methinks that cannot be a good sign.

 

Any ideas as to what I can try to resolve it? I miss my ISY, and was looking forward to playing with four new devices!

 

Thanks in Advance,

[YW84U]

Hi All,

 

Sorry for the delay....

 

If 'busy beyond all belief'

and 'work is driving you crazy'

or 'daytime equals less than 24 hours'

 

Then 'cannot respond to posts'

 

Else 'Relax'

 

 

Anyways, enough ISY humor! Back to the problematic comms.....

The version on my PLM that shipped with the unit is listed as v63, and it has a Rev 2.75 decal on the rear. It does not smell hot or electrical; it has just a slight hum when you put your ear up against it. Temp is warm towards the bottom, but nothing near what a cup of coffee would be.

 

Here's a bit better background:

 

Equipment:

- 1 version 1.5 KPL

- 8 2476D SWLs, v3.2 (The 4 new SWLS were all air-gapped for at least 30 seconds immediately after install to ensure no stray links or X10 was afoot.)

- PLM as listed above

- 2 AP's

- One ISY 99IRPRO <-- world's best invention BTW!!

 

Where are they?

The AP's are actually on the same leg as each other, and I had installed them in the hopes of boosting the signal between 3 SWLs in a 4 gang box on one branch circuit, and the KPL that was alone on another. The APs seemed to make things way more reliable, nearly 100% for keypresses and IR commands (Home Theater). The next addition to the mix was a SWL for an exterior light - on a different branch circuit, same leg. The newly added four are distributed by adding to currently Insteon-ed branch cricuits and only one is off by its lonesome.....

 

Electrical:

100Amp service in a 2800 sq ft 1967 house, all copper. All lighting is on the same switch leg - there are no devices on the other leg worth controlling (furnace, HW Tank, dryer, microwave, dishwasher, one GCFI outlet, range, and one kitchen outlet).

 

On the other leg is the rest of the house - plugs, lighting et al. 4 computers, miscellaneous TVs and other electronics, fridge, freezer etc.

 

** Electrical Caution of the Day***

 

Last week, in an attempt to decide on where to place the four new SWLs, I went to my panel for a survey. It was the usual 2am poking around and playing with ISY and other computer stuff, so it was quiet - quiet enough to hear what sounded like buzzing/arcing in the panel! When I opened the door, I could hear an ever-so-slight buzzing sound! Knowing that generally electricity is a quiet process, I began listening harder and it appeared to be coming from the 100 amp main. I popped off the lower panel portion for the branch circuits to have a looky, but did not see anything overtly wrong. I was hesitant to remove the upper portion that housed the main breaker - having 10 perfectly good reasons at the end of my wrists not to touch it! I called in an electrician friend immediately. What we found was a veritable ticking time bomb:

 

 

 

 

The wire from the meter base service to the main breaker had been degrading over a long period of time (40 years, actually....) - the insulation was beginning to disintegrate and creep up towards nearly contacting the inside of the panel - you can see the flat spot on the top loop of the wire.....

 

Needless to say, I had the service cut and the issue dealt with ASAP! But, thinking about it, how often when we are building that we never think of checking up on connections and the condition of the mains? Even in newer homes, if the mains were not torqued properly, this process of arcing or degeneration could occur and none of us would be the wiser until perhaps too late

 

Everyone, please check your panels periodically!!!

 

/ End Caution of the Day

 

Anyway, back onto my dilemma. (PS - I also had all of the neutrals tightened while electric guy was in there). I was hoping that this was the original cause of my intermittent issue, and all would be well. But alas, not so much!

 

Behaviors Observed

Both APs and PLM LEDs appear to periodically 'wink off' briefly, followed by what appears to be rather intermittent series of bright flashes. Definitely not what you see when you monitor actual Insteon traffic. This can go on for several hours, and then all of a sudden stop - with no change in the devices I have on in the home. I'm almost suspecting maybe a neighbor has some sort of evil lab in their basement with big electrical insulator-zarky-things......

 

Programs: I have the exterior light ISY'd for a sunset to ~3 hours. Prior to the addition of the 4 SWLs, the KPL button link would work less than 50% of the time to that switch. ISY would only see it infrequently - less than 25% of the time. ISY and the associated KPL button would be 100% (likely since the APs have ensured good comms between them). I figured by adding another SWL in the circuit, it would perhaps boost things to better reach that switch. KPL presses now are near 95% success, but the ISY still loses contact - light comes on, sometimes never goes off...... Changes to ramp rates never seem to make it through reliably (although sitting here right this minute, I'm able to have ISY touch every device 100%). This might change in an hour, I just never know. I also have programs to have the KPL LEDs follow along with SWL status, and the odd one is missed here and there. I have not setup scenes or programs for the new switches as of yet. I've unplugged a UPS and all of the computers / home electronics stuff to try and isolate them as suspects, but have not found any positive change just yet. Maybe a clock radio is going nuts somewhere? Wall wart for sprinkler timer?

 

Event viewer: Watched it lots, and for the most part unless I press a switch, nothing else shows up. Sometimes switch presses won't show either, depending on the whims of the mysterious comms issue at work here

 

I am completely stumped as to why everything went off the rails by adding the 4 new SWLs....ISY began reporting the dreaded cannot communicate alert with every single device, despite unplugging PLM, Telnet & reboot ISY, and even tried going at it with my Blackberry (that HTML page sure hangs when ISY can't see the device). Today, things seem better for some unknown reason...

 

I suppose a next step is to completely unplug everything in the house, then re-plug and see. Sure seems like a rather arduous task considering how many things we all have plugged into our walls!! Or perhaps, if anyone wants to come over and host a seance or some sort of Insteon Healing Circle, you are more than welcome to stop by!!

 

Anyways, I very much appreciate all of the feedback and the sharing of expertise here on the forum! If anyone can point me in the right direction, I would be very grateful.

 

Cheers,

 

Tom

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Tom,

 

Thanks so very much! Your post was not only quite informational but also very entertaining.

 

May I humbly suggest one more test; please unplug your KPL 1.5 and let me know if you still experience comm problems.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Brian H]

Could be that the very poor connections arcing where adding noise to your system.

Besides being a fire waiting to happen. Glad you caught it in time.