Thermostat FAQ ?

[telljcl]

I'm still a little confused over the Thermostat options that will communicate with the ISY.

 

I've tried several that I know work (to some extent) - Venstar wifi, Aprilaire rs-485 via ELK.

 

But is there a place that has comprehensive information on the current options and what the requirements / limitations of each is?

 

For example:

 

For each connection type: (Wifi, Z-wave (does it ever work?), Insteon (does it ever work?), wired, Zigbee, Proprietary, etc....

 

Who makes one, what is it called, what can you do / not do, is it cloud-based or local and cloud, only cloud,  what other components (HW or SW) do you need to make it work?

 

What are the future possibilities in terms of potential - i.e. with ISY version 5.0 (not sure what this will bring but I see references to it a lot).  

 

What is REST and how does it apply to current thermostats?

 

 

At this point I can't find a great thermostat that the ISY can control reliably.  I can find one that it supposedly controls (not reliable), I can find one that it does control (but isn't a very good thermostat), and I can find one that is a good thermostat and can be controlled only somewhat (not what I want to spend a lot of time and money to achieve).  Maybe that's the lay of the land right now, but before I revert back to my 8 year old Honeywell VisionPro non-communicating 'stats, I just want to be sure I'm considering all the possibilities.

 

Thanks for any additional insight.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello telljcl,

 

I am so very sorry for the dearth of information.

 

Official and built-in support for thermostats is limited to:

1. INSTEON - It works

2. Z-Wave - It works (any)

3. Zigbee/RCS - It works

 

All have been tested and work pretty well (except for SmartLabs thermostat).

 

All others require third party integration. Our plans for the future are limited to protocols we support. For instance, supporting NEST would be quite problematic since a) we are denied developer access because we do energy management and it's a proprietary protocol only for one thermostat. The same applies to Aprilaire. This said, 5.0, will make it easier for third parties to integrate these devices into ISY such that it would actually look like a thermostat in ISY.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[telljcl]

Thanks Michel,

 

So "5.0" is going to add what exactly?  Pardon my ignorance, but I have been a more casual user but have had my ISY system for quite some time and enjoy its functionality.  I don't quite know what REST commands are, or what uses them.

 

I guess I say "does z-wave work" because I see so many with connection  /  range issues, that I don't want to fight that fight along with whatever other hurdles might be related.  I have a lot of Insteon, but the Insteon RF in my experience is really really bad - I don't want it to have anything to do with something I depend on to work.

 

So while I'm sure they can work, I guess I'm looking for a very sound and bullet-proof type scenario where I do it and its done, and my wife isn't calling me to say the air conditioner is broken etc...

 

How would I go about finding out what features / controls are available with, say Zigbee / RCS?  (What can I monitor, what can I change).  Is there a "list" of z-wave units that work with ISY?

 

Thanks

[bmercier]

If that can help, I do use zwave thermostat, a Trane TZEMT400BB3NX.

 

I have absolutely no range issue with it. My ISY is in the basement, and the thermostat is on the second floor. I have very little zwave devices here.

 

I find that zwave range issues are mostly related to doorlocks, and other battery operated devices. Doorlocks in particular require a secure connection to the ISY, either directly or through the use of another secure device.

 

Also, if reliabiality is a concern, it's not worse than a regular thermostat. I mean, even if there is no zwave connection, the thermostat will still continue to work by itself.

 

But I agree, there does not seem to be great thermostats available which you can use and control by the ISY.

 

The best I could find is a Trane XL624, which I just ordered. I was looking for a zwave thermostat to which I can hook up an outdoor temp sensor, to use on the main floor.

 

Beware, the high-end trane thermostats like the XL824 and XL950 do not seem to have an exposed zwave interface.

[MikeD]

If that can help, I do use zwave thermostat, a Trane TZEMT400BB3NX.

I have this thermostat also and it has performed flawlessly since installed back in April. Cannot comment on the range, it is only 6 feet away from my ISY through one interior wall.

 

~Mike

[telljcl]

Thanks for the comments - I guess I should at least get the z-wave module (and external antenna, I guess, since my ISY is in a network wall enclosure and I don't really want to re-locate it).  I've spent way more time playing with thermostats than I ever thought I would or should already - what's another few hours.

 

Looks really basic, but what about the cheap 2gig CT100 units? Anybody have any experience with these?  I"m not really about the color screens and backgrounds so much as just getting things done competently and being able to program / communicate reliably and then forget it.

 

Also, since I don't have Z-wave, would all the z-wave thermostats have the same functions (as far as ISY / z-wave is concerned)?  I.e. would the "things you can control" (temp set point, fan on/off, humidity set point, schedule on/off etc...) and the "things you can monitor" (room temp, remote sensor temp, humidity, current set point, current schedule status (yes / no) etc...) be the same with any of these thermostats?  And do they allow programming / setting of setup parameters via zwave or must all that be done at the 'stat?  

 

Just so many questions.

 

I need to find something else to worry about I think.

 

Thanks

[rrathke]

Each thermostat can have different functions supported in z-wave. I have a Honeywell YTH8320ZW1007/U which functions quite well. Make sure you get the technical information on what exact functions are supported via z-wave, not all thermostats are created equal. There is a lot of information posted other places on this forum about other thermostats, I would be careful of the less expensive ones watching the forum posts.

[telljcl]

bmercier,

 

With the Trane unit XL624 you mention, do you have to have the Nexia bridge and account or can you enroll the t-stat directly to the ISY z-wave module?  I would assume you would need the Nexia bridge / account for any app or web-based access that is outside what can be done via ISY / z-wave?  What does the Nexia bridge / account let you do that you can't with just the ISY?  I assume they probably charge monthly for this? (Venstar does not). A little fuzzy on all this z-wave stuff.

 

Thanks!

Edited September 9, 2014 by telljcl

[bmercier]

With the Trane unit XL624 you mention, do you have to have the Nexia bridge and account or can you enroll the t-stat directly to the ISY z-wave module? 

 

There is no need for the nexia bridge as it will communicate directly with the zwave module, and therefore can be accessed and controlled by ISY.

 

 

I would assume you would need the Nexia bridge / account for any app or web-based access that is outside what can be done via ISY / z-wave? 

 

 

 

Your assumption is right, in the sense that you would need nexia if you want a web-based access outside of ISY. However, you can have a web interface to ISY that will give you access to your thermostat. Out of the box, the standard ISY web based interface (UDAjax) allows to access/control the thermostat. And so does the Home Automation Dashboard (HAD), which allows you to customize yourself a web interface to your ISY

 

HAD partial screen shot with thermostat controls:

 

ISY UDAjax (ISY standard web interface) partial screen shot:

 

 

 

What does the Nexia bridge / account let you do that you can't with just the ISY?  I assume they probably charge monthly for this? (Venstar does not).

 

 

I'm not familiar with the Nexia bridge/account. I assume it may possibly be simpler for someone to get remote access to the thermostat, outside of your home. But personnally I would not want to have a separate web interface limited to thermostat and other nexia accessible devices like doorlocks. I want a web interface to control everything.

 

I don't think you can do anything more than you could with ISY.

[telljcl]

Thanks for all that info!

[guedesluz]

I just started thinking about using an Insteon Thermostat and had some similar doubts:

 

 - Could the thermostat be used to control a convencional air conditioner like a split? Today I use an Globa Cache iTach to send the IR codes to it. Is it possible to make the Insteon thermostat control it, throught the ISY?

 

 - What are the REST commands that I could send/read in communication with the Thermostat? Is there any library?

[builderb]

For instance, supporting NEST would be quite problematic since a) we are denied developer access because we do energy management and it's a proprietary protocol only for one thermostat.

I was wondering about this. I had enough success with my Hue lights that I wanted to try my hand at basic Nest communication, so I signed up as a Nest developer so I'd have access to their API documentation. One of their "don'ts" was create demand response programs.

 

A rather unfortunate situation. I assume this means no Nest module will be forthcoming, even with the new firmware capabilities.

[Teken]

 One of their "don'ts" was create demand response programs.

 

A rather unfortunate situation. I assume this means no Nest module will be forthcoming, even with the new firmware capabilities.

 

Can you please expand on what this means in laymen's terms? I believe I know what it means in a general sense but don't understand why NEST would not allow 3rd party device to reduce power consumption??

[builderb]

I assume it's because they have their own plans for something similar? Or possibly because that would compete with the Nest's own energy-reducing potential?

 

Not sure. That was the one "don't" that jumped out at me. The rest were pretty understandable, don't write malicious code, don't copy Nest functions and present them as your own, don't develope software that smears the Nest brand, etc.

[Teken]

I assume it's because they have their own plans for something similar? Or possibly because that would compete with the Nest's own energy-reducing potential?

 

Not sure. That was the one "don't" that jumped out at me. The rest were pretty understandable, don't write malicious code, don't copy Nest functions and present them as your own, don't develope software that smears the Nest brand, etc.

 

OK, so I am glad I understood the basic principle as I knew them. But, what is stopping you from actually making some kind of On Demand Response widget, feature, thing a ma jig in your App? 

 

Excluding any potential legal ramifications etc. 

[builderb]

OK, so I am glad I understood the basic principle as I knew them. But, what is stopping you from actually making some kind of On Demand Response widget, feature, thing a ma jig in your App?

 

Excluding any potential legal ramifications etc.

Nothing stopping me . But I can see why it stops UDI.

 

Plus, all I really want is to be able to access and set the home/away state, and read the temp and humidity data. I have no plans to develop anything for sale. I figure I'm pretty safe.

[guedesluz]

Maybe someone could help me plz with my earlier post?

[builderb]

The Nest should be able to control a split system. I believe it can control pretty much any system, with the exception of line-voltage and millivolt systems.

 

Regarding the REST stuff, I'm looking into that now. Sign up for a Nest dev account, and you too can peruse their API info. I'll probably spend some time looking into it myself this weekend.

Edited November 13, 2014 by builderb

[416to305]

Hey everyone, what is wrong with the Insteon thermostat?  Was going to buy it or a Z-Wave one haven't decided yet so was searching here and came across this thread.  I have a normal furnace not a heat pump or anything.  We have a programmable thermostat but never program it, normally it's in manual mode 99.99% of the time, where I'll just adjust the temperature myself.  I don't have a C wire but could run one, or thought of maybe the RadioThermostat which takes a battery.   I work from home so programs aren't helpful for me.  I mostly wanted it so that when I wake up I could warm the house before I actually head downstairs, or if I'm at the airport after a flight, I could heat the house while driving home or things like that.  I see a lot of negative reviews on the Insteon thermostat or people talking about reliability so was just wondering if it's really bad or?  Like what kind of reliability?  Like a program that's set to make it 72 at 8am or something only actually changes the temp 4 out of 5 days type thing or?

[Jason Miller]

I am confused by all this as well. I have an older trane unit with a honeywell 7 day programmable thermostat now. I was going to put an Insteon on it, to use off the ISY, but read that the Insteon one doesn't work with a heat pump?

[stusviews]

The Insteon thermostat does not work with a heat pump, but of the Venstar T1700, T1800, T1900 thermostats will. You'll also need an Insteon thermostat adapter.