Super frustrating 99i -> 994 upgrade!

[creeble]

Ugh.  This is unbelievably frustrating.

 

First, my PLM went out.  It happens; I ordered another, and hooked it up to my old 99i and everything started working fine again.  But I've had a 994 in a box for the better part of a year, so decided it was time to upgrade.

 

I upgraded the 99i to 3.3.10, and then saved the configuration, as instructed elsewhere here.  Then I replaced the 99i with the 994.  Plugged in the PLM, then waited 10s and applied power to the 994.  I go to the admin console of the new 994, and it gives me an error when trying to run the Java:

 

Missing required Permissions manifest in main jar:

 

Okay, well, something still screwed up there (and this is my fault somehow?), so I go to the admin console from some remote Java link posted around here somehwere.  I can see all my devices / programs.

 

I do some link updating (not specified in the upgrade notes I found) to get some controllers working.  That seems to work.  But none of my programs or scenes seem to work.  I decide to try running the "then" statements on a few programs -- nothing.

 

The new PLM is working fine, I can control individual lights from the admin console.  But nothing having to do with scenes or programs works.  FRUSTRATING!!

 

Can anyone help?  I'm about ready to heave this *#^$ thing.

[LeeG]

I did not see mention of doing a Restore ISY of the 99i information to the 994i.

 

Also did not see mention of clearing the Java cache including Applications nor changing the URL to invoke the 994i level Admin Console.

 

With the 994i being that old what level ISY firmware is running on the 994i and was the 994i updated to 4.2.10?  

[LeeG]

This Wiki section on migration may be of some assistance

 

http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-994i_Series:Migrating_To_Your_ISY-994i 

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi creeble,

 

I am so very sorry to hear. LeeG is 100% correct. If you are still having problems, please do not hesitate to contact our support team (links below) and we'd be delighted to help you get your 994 up and running.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[creeble]

Yes, of course I did a restore, or there would be no programs to attempt to run. The 994 is running 4.2.10. Changing url? Where do the instructions say anything about that?

 

I'll look at the link you sent, then contact support.

[LeeG]

The URL that runs 3.3.10 on a 99i does not support 4.2.10 on a 994i.  The 4.2.10 announcement (page 1) has the URL to bring up the 4.2.10 Admin Console.  Be sure to clear Java cache including Applications before running 4.2.10 URL.

[stusviews]

Step 6. http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/13892-release-4210-rc4-is-now-available/

[creeble]

Okay, I'm running the UI from this url:

 

http://isy.universal-devices.com/994i/4.2.10/admin.jnlp

 

and it finds my 994i fine (clicking on the Admin Console link on the device's web page always give me a security error.  My Java is 7-67).  It says the firmware version is 4.0.5, and the UI is 4.2.10.  There is no notice of a newer firmware version in the UI, and the main support page at Universal Devices says that this version (4.0.5) is current.

 

Tonight, several programs ran fine -- several lights came on at sunset-30, like they should.  But two scenes didn't, and both scenes are controllable from the UI (manually) fine.  Programs that were linked to a controller action don't run when the controller button is pressed.  Running the "then" section of programs doesn't work for any programs.

 

I don't understand -- why does nothing run from the UI, and only some programs run automatically?

[LeeG]

Apparently something was not success during the upgrade to 4.2.10.  Rather than installing 4.2.10 again I suggest installing the just released 4.2.15 which will likely be the next official release.  That also means a change to a new URL for 4.2.15 and clearing the Java cache again including Applications.

[LeeG]

If the ISY was running 4.2.10 then it would be a good platform to analyze the various symptoms.   I ran 4.2.10 until 4.2.15 came out tonight.

 

Now that it has been determined the ISY is actually running 4.0.5 that is not a good environment to evaluate symptoms.  4.0.5 is some 16 months old with many updates along the path to 4.2.10.   It would not be a good  use of resources to debug something that old.

[creeble]

Okay, I'm back on this, trying to figure out why some of my programs run fine on my new 994i and others don't seem to run at all.

 

I've upgraded to 4.2.18, and Java 8.25.  I get the UI fine, and I can run the "then" statements of the programs that run automatically just fine.

 

Of the programs that don't run, most have to do with one scene -- the Bedroom scene, which has 2 LampLinc 2-pin V.38 dimmers and a ToggleLinc v.3A dimmer.  I can control these each separately from the UI, but when I select the entire scene and use On/Off/etc, nothing happens.  The scene also has two controllers in it, a Controlinc and a Remotelinc.

 

One of the Controlincs in the bedroom is also mostly dead -- two of the switches that were linked to Bedroom lights work, but the other switches (which were used to run programs) don't do anything.

 

I can't figure why these scenes / programs don't run if the individual lights work fine from the UI?

[stusviews]

I can't figure why these scenes / programs don't run if the individual lights work fine from the UI?

If a remote control is broken or has dead batteries. then it won't turn on the TV even though you can do that at the TV. Scenes and programs, although they may have the same result, can have entirely different reasons for not responding as expected. Each situation is different.

 

Describe the scene that doesn't do what it should (i.e, controllers, responders)? Describe the program that doesn't do what it should (i.e., IF conditions, THEN actions).

[creeble]

The Bedroom scene has three lights (responders), as mentioned in the previous post.  It also has two controllers: a button on a Controlinc, and a button on a RemoteLinc.  Both of these buttons control the scene fine.  However, when I select the Bedroom scene in the Admin Console (what I was calling the "UI"), none of the buttons (On, FastOn, Off, etc) do anything at all (although the "Current state" column changes).  Controlling the individual lights from the scene works fine.

 

The program that doesn't run (one of a couple) is:

If

     Time is Sunset

[creeble]

oops, didn't mean to hit Post...

 

If

    Time is Sunset - 40 minutes

Then

    Set Scene 'Bedroom' 100%

Else

    Set Scene 'Bedroom' Off

 

A similar program is used to control a single Insteon light (not used in a Scene), and it works fine.  Actually, several programs that control Insteon individual lights with exactly the same program all work fine.  But not the program that controls the 'Bedroom' Scene.

 

So, the "remote" (Admin Console) can control all the lights in the Bedroom scene individually, but it can't control the whole scene, either with the manual buttons or through a program.

[creeble]

It would appear that all my Scenes are basically broken:  The individual lights can be controlled from the Admin Console, but not the Scenes.  The Controlinc and RemoteLinc can turn the scenes on and off, but not the 994i.

 

I have another Scene with just two lights, both LampLinc 2-wire V.3B.  It has one controller, a button on a RemoteLinc.  This button works fine.  The 994i Admin Console can't control the scene at all.

[stusviews]

Help. About

 

What is the firmware? What is the UI?

[larryllix]

oops, didn't mean to hit Post...

 

If

    Time is Sunset - 40 minutes

Then

    Set Scene 'Bedroom' 100%

Else

    Set Scene 'Bedroom' Off

 

A similar program is used to control a single Insteon light (not used in a Scene), and it works fine.  Actually, several programs that control Insteon individual lights with exactly the same program all work fine.  But not the program that controls the 'Bedroom' Scene.

 

So, the "remote" (Admin Console) can control all the lights in the Bedroom scene individually, but it can't control the whole scene, either with the manual buttons or through a program.

A few observations

 - Scenes do not have 100% - did you mean 'On'?

     Perhaps cut and paste your exact program here so people can help most effectively.

 

- Your program has an "Else" included and yet no trigger to ever activate the 'Else' part of the program.

      Many use the dual time 'From-To' in their triggers that can run the 'Else' section to turn off lights.

 

- Are your bedroom devices wired on a circuit leg with an AFCI?

     Arc-fault breakers are a requirement in newer wired homes for bedrooms and can block signals somewhat.

     At least one device may need to be dual band to inject powerline signals to older devices on that leg and phase of your electrical service.

[oberkc]

It would appear that all my Scenes are basically broken:

 

When I read your symptoms, it makes me suspect that, somehow, the insteon devices did not get fully linked back to the new PLM.  Have you recently tried restoring some of the individual devices?  Prior to that, perhaps show the device links table (right-click a given device, choose "show..."), and compare.  Are there any mismatches?

[creeble]

A few observations

 - Scenes do not have 100% - did you mean 'On'?

     Perhaps cut and paste your exact program here so people can help most effectively.

 

- Your program has an "Else" included and yet no trigger to ever activate the 'Else' part of the program.

      Many use the dual time 'From-To' in their triggers that can run the 'Else' section to turn off lights.

 

- Are your bedroom devices wired on a circuit leg with an AFCI?

     Arc-fault breakers are a requirement in newer wired homes for bedrooms and can block signals somewhat.

     At least one device may need to be dual band to inject powerline signals to older devices on that leg and phase of your electrical service.

All of these exact programs ran fine on my ISY-99 before.  There have been no wiring changes to the house since replacing it with the 994i, not even any new appliances.

 

I have programs that use the dual-time setting in the "IF" statement and "Else ... Off", and I have others with a blank Else (like for a Sunset+30 "Dim" command).  Why is it that you can't remove the Else part of a program if it's not needed?  Anyway, as I mentioned, all of these programs ran fine on my ISY-99.

 

I have correlated the program failures with Scenes (containing more than one light).  None of my programs can control a Scene, but all programs that work with a single light work fine.  Controllers (like RemoteLinc and Controlinc) are able to control multi-light scenes.

 

@oberkc:  I haven't restored any individual devices; I'm not even sure what that means or how to do it.  I did just look at the Diagnostics/Show Device Links Table and hit "compare" -- but all I see is two tables of hex numbers, I have no idea what they mean (I guess "Diagnostics" isn't for regular users).  But when I compare, the ISY Links Table has a line 0FE0 followed by all zeros, whereas the Device Links Table shows [ignore] 0FE0 00 10 00.00.00 FF 1F 00.  The other lines say [identical].  This probably means something.

 

I'm tempted to do a "Restore devices" -- but I don't know if that will just break all my controllers and not solve the Scenes problem.  I think the easiest thing (which may not do anything) is to recreate all my Scenes.  But if I delete a Scene, what happens to programs that reference it?

 

FWIW, and as I said in #11, firmware is 4.2.18 and UI is 4.2.18.

[creeble]

A few observations

 - Scenes do not have 100% - did you mean 'On'?

     Perhaps cut and paste your exact program here so people can help most effectively.

I would love to be able to cut and paste the program.  Can anyone tell me how to do this from the Admin Console?  I can't seem to select any text.

 

The "Program Content" window for 'Bedroom - evening on' shows exacly what I said in #14 (with "Set Scene 'Bedroom' 100%" in the "Then" statement).

 

Below it, in the "Action" box, it shows:

Insteon                Set [bedroom]             [on]

 

I don't know why the "Program Content" window shows "100%" while the "Action" window shows "On".

[stusviews]

Right click on the program name, select Copy to Clipboard.

[larryllix]

I have had devices that I deleted and then reinstalled. Programs and scenes did not have proper links in them and had to be rebuilt from scratch or at least reselected in the device tree and saved. 

 

I would start by taking one device out and deleting it from ISY. Then factory reset the device to clean out all old links and relink it. Then go a rebuild the scenes and programs it was involved in. Seeing the same device name in a program or scene does not work for me occasionally. I have to reselect the device, update and then save. ISY seems to not notice the removal of devices and loses the proper link during this process occasionally.

 

If this works for the first one then keep going with the rest.

 

It seems like the scene links in the devices are not compatible with your new ISY994i. Something messed up in the upgrade process.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello creeble,

 

I am so very sorry for all the problems you have been having. One thing that sticks out is this:

I have correlated the program failures with Scenes (containing more than one light). None of my programs can control a Scene, but all programs that work with a single light work fine. Controllers (like RemoteLinc and Controlinc) are able to control multi-light scenes.

This basically means that the PLM does not have the correct links for the scenes. Did you also get a new PLM? If so, did you do a File | Restore Modem (PLM) afterwards.

 

What you might want to do:

1. Right mouse click on any of your scenes | Diagnostics | Scene Test ... do they fail?

2. Go to Tools | Diagnostics | Show PLM Links Table, click on Start, wait for completion and then click the Count button. You should have around the same number of links as what you can estimate here http://www.universal-devices.com/tools/insteon/calc_plm_links.htm

 

In both cases above, doing a File | Restore Modem (PLM) should fix the issues unless the PLM is bad.

 

And, as always, we are here to help (links below).

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[creeble]

I have had devices that I deleted and then reinstalled. Programs and scenes did not have proper links in them and had to be rebuilt from scratch or at least reselected in the device tree and saved. 

Thanks, Larry.  I finally got it all back -- I had to delete all the scenes and rebuild them.  Though tedious, this took less time than all the Restore Devices / Restore PLM nonsense (that had no effect) that I had done before.

 

Of course, after deleting the Scenes all the programs that referenced them had to be fixed.  Not terrible, just annoying.

 

So now, after all that work (and $99 gone), I'm back to where i was with the old ISY.  I'm sure I'll find some reason that the "upgrade" was worth it besides not being able to use newer versions of the software.

[LeeG]

If you ever have to replace a KPL or use some of the newer type devices that came out after 3.3.10 the change will be worth while.