Any issue buying/using X10 wall switches vs Insteon?

[edokid]

For a bunch of rooms in my home I don't really want any fancy or crazy controls like dimming, just the ability to use them to control the light for motion or remotely.  On eBay it seems that X10 switches are a bit cheaper than Insteon ones even with shipping, usually $10-15 less, making them like $28 or so which is much better than $50.  Are there any issues or limitations to look out for or will this still work?  I'm thinking mostly in the areas where there won't be lots of programming, such as maybe a patio light where it's more just to control it on a timer or a motion light where motion turns it on or off.  I just checked super fast and saw this one X10 PRO Decorator Wall Dimmer Switch XPD3-IW PRO Version of WS12A .  There's others on there as well was just checking quick, a lot have high shipping to Canada.  Thought I'd check to see or if it's better to just spend the extra money on the Insteon one.  There's just many places I just want basic control, I don't need dimming etc, so wish there was a less expensive way for just basic control.  Thanks!

[Brian H]

Do you have the optional A10/X10 firmware add on for your ISY controller?

Insteon Modules have a power line transmitter in them. The transmitter will absorb some of the power line signal. Many have found X10 relability goes down as more Insteon Modules are added to the system.

X10 power line signals are not resent by Insteon Modules, Dual Band Devices like Access Points or the new Range Extender. The X10 power line signals are not coupled between the phases

So the X10 signals have to go from the sender to the X10 module in question.

Do you have a good X10 Phase Coupler in your system.

I have a JV Engineering XTB-IIR that blasts an X10 signal back on the power lines and respects Insteon messages that many other X10 repeaters will corrupt. I also have an optional X10 Primary Address in many of my Insteon Modules as I still have a nice 10 address Palm Pad in use. Along with a few Chime Modules.

 

Since X10 Wireless Technologies Inc. went bankrupt. The new owners had to reevaluate the actual costs of the modules. So most present stock is higher in cost than many are use to with the X10WTI blow out deals.

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Edited September 21, 2014 by Brian H

[paulbates]

There is some "you get what you pay for" involved. I started with X10. The oldest switches in my house are X10 brand. They still work x10 wise, but from a construction / operation point of view are showing their age. The decora style seem to suffer the most, and always had a cheap feel to them when operating them. I have one for the lights on my stairs; the signal seems to work all time when controlled, but it can take several presses to get it to register. It gets used every day, and I hear about it. I have keypad lincs to replace them soon. I would recommend against x10 for daily, high traffic areas.

 

Having said that, its been a long time since I bought any x10 brand items, so others may have a more optimistic view on build quality.

 

Another factor is how insteon affects X10 signalling. (as Brian pointed out) The more insteon you install, the more it impacts and reduces x10's signal ability to get around on your network. If the x10 switches are further away from the panel, or on a circuit with lots of insteon, they may not communicate 100%. Or over time, as you install more insteon, it might work less and less consistently. Or install devices like Brian discussed.

 

Not a straight answer to your question, but I think you're going to find that the design and build of insteon, though not perfect, buys you something. One thing to look for is "refurb" sales at Smarthome. It means "open box return". I buy as much as I can that way.

Edited September 21, 2014 by paulbates

[edokid]

Thanks everyone that helps, I'll definitely avoid it since it would be different if they were like $5-10 or something but they are close enough in price to the Insteon switches to not make it worth it.  I didn't realize the ISY needed an add on to do X10 as I saw it saying add X10 device on mine.  It would be nice if there was a cheaper Switchlinc that didn't dim.  Not sure why they are priced the same as the dimming one.  My issue is all the lights I've installed one on don't dim, it basically stays 100% until I go to maybe 40% then it goes a little dimmer but flickers, until 5% then it goes really dim and flickers like crazy.  

Edited September 21, 2014 by edokid

[paulbates]

You can talk to X10 devices without the module, but you can't name them... they would be A3, I5 etc... Not 'Patio Light'. I've gotten away with this approach due to the few and dwindling X10 devices on my system

[larryllix]

I have a box full of X10 modules. I use a few of them in things like China cabinet light and ornaments that have the "who cares?" level of security involved.

 

For the wall switches I won't bother to take the switch cover off to install them, They aren't worth it, piece of junk communication wise and mechanically.

 

I do still use about 7 motion sensors in bedrooms that are guest only status. I am slowly replacing them with Insteon motion detectors that don't require wireless to powerline translators that burn out every few years and only work about 98% of the time.

 

The X10 modules is not required if you don't mind running with X10 code names.

 

I find a delay needs to be inserted after every X10 command as the PLM can send an X10 signal that will clobber the next Insteon signal. They don't play nice with Insteon units. Also the PLM can get so behind on say a flashing light sequence that it can take 60 seconds to get the flashing stopped after stopping the running program.  Very slow and it becomes apparent after running Insteon modules.

 

Keep in mind I have these X10 units already so they are free of cost for me to use. If you are thinking of ordering these new and having these shipped, don't waste your money.

 

You can occasionally find people selling boxes of used X10 modules online for a few bucks.

 

I deal with aartech.ca in Canada. They ship fast, are cheaper than US counterparts, and stand behind any problems you have with warranties and investigation of problems with flakey items.

[edokid]

Thanks yeah I use aartech as well they are great and super fast, usually get the item the very next day.  Their pricing is good, but Canada Computers has had the best pricing so far, only issue is each of their stores have like 2 Insteon items only so that's where I got most my stuff, going to each their stores and buying it there.  Speaking of which though I just bought the Insteon wall plate adapter to let you use a Remotelinc on the wall and they are a piece of garbage!  They are too wide so the remote just pushes right through and they use these tiny bubbles of plastic to hold it in place which don't reach far enough.  The result is the same as if I had nothing there and just tried to hold a remote on the wall.

[stusviews]

X10 modules can be problematic in a home with a lot of electronics. Sometimes it takes a while for the difficulties to appear, such as lights turning on randomly or not working at all. That's often because an electronic device has aged or a particular combination of devices hasn't been on concurrently.

 

The general trend for someone with X10 devices is to replace them with newer technology as they fail. OTOH, X10 modules seem to have a lifespan considerably greater than the latest technologies.

[ravedog]

I have X10 modules 15 years old still work. Crazy!

 

 

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