Sunrise/Sunset is too early/late

[stusviews]

Some times of the year, turning on lights or closing window coverings at sunset is too early. Other times of the year, it's too late. And yet other times sunset is just right. Sunrise, too. The reason is that the interval between sunset (sunrise) and "dark" ("light") varies based on the declination of the sun.

 

Depending on your location, you may want to try advancing or retarding to on or off time by 15 or 30 minutes or not at all based on the following dates through 2020:

 

vernal equinox: March 20

summer solstice: June 20 or 21

autumnal equinox: September 22 or 23

winter solstice: December 22 or 23

 

To create four sunset/sunrise schedules, deselect Daily. A calendar appears.

 

Set up seasonal lighting in advance, too

[Mike Ippolito]

Thanks for the tip!  I had to read this topic.. because frankly sometimes sunrise is just "too early"

 

One additional tip that I've implemented is using 'light' as a factor. This turns my outside lights on if light levels reach a certain point.  Frankly I'm still fiddling with it since we've moved to HAM because their algorithm is different than weatherbug - but it's worth a try.  I understand this potentially will trigger twice, but call it fail safe to make sure the lights turn on.

If
        Time is Sunset  + 15 minutes
     Or (
             Time is Sunset  -  1 hour
         And Module 'Climate' Light is 4
        )
 
Then
        Set Scene 'garage outdoor lights' On
        Set 'Outside Front Door Lights' On
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

[larryllix]

I have 10 MS with light/dark sensors that report in and base many of my dark based conditional on a constant. $cDARK_THESHOLD.

Note that the counter has a saturation point less than the number of inputs so it can self correct for comm problems.

If
        (
             Control 'Afternoon Bedroom / Dark.Afternoon BR' is switched On
          Or Control 'Evening Bedroom / Dark.Evening BR' is switched On
          Or Control 'Gathering Room / Dark.GathRm' is switched On
          Or Control 'Library / Dark.Libr' is switched On
          Or Control 'Lower Landing / Dark.LLand' is switched On
          Or Control 'Master Bedroom / Motion.MBR / Dark.MBR' is switched On
          Or Control 'Mudroom / Motion.MudRm / Dark.MudRm' is switched On
          Or Control 'Rec Room / Motion.RecRm / Dark.RecRm' is switched On
          Or Control 'Utility Room / Dark.Utility' is switched On
          Or Control 'Workshop / Motion.Shop / Dark.Shop' is switched On
        )
    And $Dark_Counter < 7
 
Then
        $Dark_Counter += 1
        $Dark_Counter Init To $Dark_Counter
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 
Libr and Util are not likely to ever indicate Not Dark.

If
        $Dark_Counter > $cDARK_THESHOLD
 
Then
        Wait  1 second
        Set 'Gathering Room / PotLight over Table' 5% (Backlight Level)
        Wait  2 seconds
        Set 'Gathering Room / PotLights over Chairs' 7% (Backlight Level)
        Wait  2 seconds
        Set 'Gathering Room / PotLight over Desk' 5% (Backlight Level)
        Wait  2 seconds
        Set 'Foyer / Front Porch Lights' 5% (Backlight Level)
        Wait  2 seconds
        Set 'Gathering Room / PotLights over TV' 5% (Backlight Level)
        Wait  2 seconds
        Set 'Mudroom / Mudroom Potlights' 5% (Backlight Level)
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

Edited October 17, 2014 by larryllix

[stusviews]

I neglected to include an example:

 

If
        From    12:01:00AM on 2014/09/20
        To      11:59:00PM on 2020/12/22
    And Time is Sunset  - 15 minutes
 

 

Edit: ending year correction.

Edited October 17, 2014 by stusviews

[larryllix]

Nice stu!

 

Good reminder. I had forgotten those calendar options were even there. I have only used them once as the year has no wild card option so the user has to update them every year or they won't work.

 

I guess a series of Season based time blocks ORed together covers some compensation of declination of the sun travel path (ecliptic).

 

 

Now can we compensate for full solar eclipses with some ISY program math? 

Edited October 17, 2014 by larryllix

[bernieb]

Good idea Stu,

 

For some of us less knowledgable, would you mind sharing when we should advance (earlier), delay (later) or leave alone for the following time for each of the seasons?

[stusviews]

That depends on your location, but in general, the sun sets quicker in winter (turn on lights earlier) and slower during the summer (turn on lights later). Unless you're in the southern hemisphere

[bipto]

Thanks for the tip - I can think of a couple uses I could make of that...

 

FYI, I too have tried to factor Climate::Light in to my lighting programs but have found that the HAM light percentage reporting is far too inconsistent / erratic for me to rely on for this purpose.  Sometimes the value seems completely wrong for the current light condition, other times the value seems to "stick" for hours and then jump.  Not sure if this is an issue with HAM, or with the stations themselves, though I have tried several different stations within a reasonable radius and have yet to find one that I can rely on.  Given that this behavior seems to have gotten worse over the past weeks, I'm not convinced that this doesn't have something to do with the seasonal angle of the sun, either...  I just know that I am not able to reliably use that value to indicate internal lighting requirements... 

[paulbates]

.....  Given that this behavior seems to have gotten worse over the past weeks, I'm not convinced that this doesn't have something to do with the seasonal angle of the sun, either...  

 

FYI. The earth's axis changed a few degrees. Oh, and the sun moved.too . 

[bipto]

FYI. The earth's axis changed a few degrees. Oh, and the sun moved.too . 

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was eluding to with "seasonal angle"... but thanks   ... I'm just not sure whether that alone explains the (mis)behavior I'm seeing.  On many bright, mostly-sunny days the light level remains in single digits until well after noon, and then will abruptly increase to 80+ percent. I'd almost be inclined to believe that the sensors on some of these stations are now in the shade most of the day - except that this behavior is not necessarily consistent from day to day...

[paulbates]

It's been an ongoing struggle for me too. I've used several light sensor methods. Got close but never perfect.

[larryllix]

It's been an ongoing struggle for me too. I've used several light sensor methods. Got close but never perfect.

If you want the light density at a given point you have to detect it at that spot.

[paulbates]

If you want the light density at a given point you have to detect it at that spot.

Yeh, I went through a period when I had an WGL receiver putting X10 Motion sensors around to gather light levels. I've compromised on one spot that seems to get it right most of the time. The techniques in this post have me thinking about adding a seasonal program layer to it

 

Thanks Larry

[bernieb]

So is there a way to put this logic into only one program or would you have to create 4 programs (one for each season) to turn your lights on?

I would rather keep it to one single program if i could.  An example would be appreciated if this is possible.  Thanks

[larryllix]

So is there a way to put this logic into only one program or would you have to create 4 programs (one for each season) to turn your lights on?

I would rather keep it to one single program if i could.  An example would be appreciated if this is possible.  Thanks

No. One simple or compound logic "If" per program.

With no date or time  wildcards in ISY, yet, you will have to update your programs ever year.

 

Create a folder and drop them all into that folder for tidy.

[stusviews]

I use six programs, one for each season, one for lighting, both interior and exterior and one for window coverings.

 

Sunset Winter

If
        From    12:01:00AM on 2014/09/20
        To      11:59:00PM on 2020/12/22
    And Time is Sunset  + 15 minutes
 
Then
        Run Program 'Sunset Lighting' (Then Path)
        Run Program 'Sunset Shading' (Then Path)
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

[Xathros]

        From    12:01:00AM on 2014/09/20

        To      11:59:00PM on 2020/12/22

 

 

Am I missing something? Wouldn'tl this be TRUE for ALL seasons between Sept 2014 and Dec 2020, not just fall?

 

-Xathros

[larryllix]

Am I missing something? Wouldn'tl this be TRUE for ALL seasons between Sept 2014 and Dec 2020, not just fall?

 

-Xathros

If it doesn't (trigger all seasons) many people have been spending way too much time, writing complex and massive programs, and asking to implement wildcards in dates in ISY updates.

 

By the textual logic demonstrated it shouldn't be seasonal but it wouldn't be the first time I have been surprised by some ISY syntax.

Edited October 20, 2014 by larryllix

[stusviews]

Am I missing something? Wouldn'tl this be TRUE for ALL seasons between Sept 2014 and Dec 2020, not just fall?

 

-Xathros

You are absolutely correct. Another conditional need for a date without a year. And the months I posted aren't even winter months