Guest Digger Posted November 16, 2014 Posted November 16, 2014 First love the Avatar and screen name! I do agree as a successful company you need to identify products / services that are bleeding you out. My point is that I have watched from a far both extremely large companies (Microsoft / Google) enter a space put around for a few years then jump ship. One could say perhaps the market and the demand was too low and they were way too early in entering the space. That is one thing I have to concede and perhaps this new effort to enter the HA space will bring back the energy monitoring aspect that both were champions for. At the end of the day time is the victor as it has always been. Lets see how it all unfolds and perhaps we all will be on the winning end of things! What bothers me is when SH is not forthcoming. A switch I opened today to replace the TACT switches that are corroded. Looking at the micro label it says "Beta". Yet its not upgradeable in the field and they ship Beta's as real product to people that don't even know it.
Brian H Posted November 16, 2014 Posted November 16, 2014 I got an early Icon On/Off module. The label on the micro said Beta. I was told that the firmware in it was a released version and the labels had not been reprinted removing the Beta designation.
blueman2 Posted November 16, 2014 Posted November 16, 2014 Lets see how it all unfolds and perhaps we all will be on the winning end of things! Thumbs up. Actually, we are on the winning team. Insteon today is the best when you consider also the support by ISY/UD. So while it is fun to debate the future, I am confident we have installed the right system for today. No debate there (from me anyway).
Guest Digger Posted November 16, 2014 Posted November 16, 2014 I got an early Icon On/Off module. The label on the micro said Beta. I was told that the firmware in it was a released version and the labels had not been reprinted removing the Beta designation. Mine was an internal label. I have no way of knowing if the firmware in it was released or not at the time or if ever. Granted most people don't open their switches but I prefer to repair then replace.
oberkc Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 So while it is fun to debate the future, I am confident we have installed the right system for today. That is, in the end, how I see it as well. I remain very satisfied with my insteon house. The continued introduction of new-and-improved insteon devices makes me think that things are working out for smarthome. I have no intention of wholesale changes to z-wave, but if I see a z-wave device on a clearance table somewhere, it is nice being able to take advantage of that savings. Other than that, it will be insteon for me.
apostolakisl Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 That is, in the end, how I see it as well. I remain very satisfied with my insteon house. The continued introduction of new-and-improved insteon devices makes me think that things are working out for smarthome. I have no intention of wholesale changes to z-wave, but if I see a z-wave device on a clearance table somewhere, it is nice being able to take advantage of that savings. Other than that, it will be insteon for me. That is a reasonable statement. And even if SH were to falter, they have a pretty big market established that is too valuable to just get ignored. Someone would buy the patents and keep it going. The only possible exception to that is if some other technology showed up that was just a huge game changer. The fact is that 99.999% of the world is already wired the way it is wired so that really only leaves performance and price as game changing categories. And at current Insteon price/performance levels, there is only so much room for improvement, probably not "game changing" room.
scubaguyjohn Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) Smarthome (for me) is very good for sales and technical questions (but still not as good as UDI!) and most products are reliable. However, I've been burned on buying insteon keypad lincs...I now have about 10 that have all failed in 3-4 years...that's $800 out the window and no alternative solution, and no real offer to replace them by smarthome other than a discount on new units. If i could start over, I wouldn't use Insteon as I'm locked into a sole supplier and I strongly dislike the lack of flexibility. My insteon/homeseer (homeseer, a very expensive disaster) decision 2-3 years ago would not be the same today. With the recent advances in isy and zwave, that would be the route I'd take. John Edited November 19, 2014 by scubaguyjohn
larryllix Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Smarthome (for me) is very good for sales and technical questions (but still not as good as UDI!) and most products are reliable. However, I've been burned on buying insteon keypad lincs...I now have about 10 that have all failed in 3-4 years...that's $800 out the window and no alternative solution, and no real offer to replace them by smarthome other than a discount on new units. If i could start over, I wouldn't use Insteon as I'm locked into a sole supplier and I strongly dislike the lack of flexibility. My insteon/homeseer (homeseer, a very expensive disaster) decision 2-3 years ago would not be the same today. With the recent advances in isy and zwave, that would be the route I'd take. John How is the Insteon sales chain any different than X10 was or other protocols are? Is there actually different manufacturers making the devices or just different suppliers selling it? Insteon devices have their problems but read some other protocol forums and see. The grass on the other side of the fence always looks greener, especially when you look from a distance and an acute angle.
scubaguyjohn Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) How is the Insteon sales chain any different than X10 was or other protocols are? Is there actually different manufacturers making the devices or just different suppliers selling it? Insteon devices have their problems but read some other protocol forums and see. The grass on the other side of the fence always looks greener, especially when you look from a distance and an acute angle. Zwave products come from multiple suppliers, for example. Open platforms tend to be better supported, offer greater choices at lower price points. Same reasoning I don't buy Apple PC's....typically, substantially higher prices for less performance on a closed platform. I've used zwave fairly extensively so I'm not looking at it from a distance. As you say, however, i'm sure there are detractors on both sides. Edited November 19, 2014 by scubaguyjohn
Teken Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Zwave products come from multiple suppliers, for example. Open platforms tend to be better supported, offer greater choices at lower price points. Same reasoning I don't buy Apple PC's....typically, substantially higher prices for less performance on a closed platform. I've used zwave fairly extensively so I'm not looking at it from a distance. As you say, however, i'm sure there are detractors on both sides. The one thing I will give Apple is that the frames of their laptops are excellent quality. They too have hardware related issues (video card defect, fan issue, over heating) in various model years etc. As you stated clearly there are more than ten separate companies making and selling Z-Wave products. Even though most of them look like aszz and feel even worse, the key thing is that there is not one single vendor making them. Back to Insteon / Smartlabs, I am hoping very much that the partnership with Microsoft will help their R&D, finance, or at the very least help market penetration. Its safe to say that it was a Godsend that UDI decided to offer dual use (Insteon / Z-Wave) in one box. I have high hopes for 5.XX firmware so I can finally bridge two ISY Series Controllers to have X10, Insteon, Z-Wave, Zigbee, all in one home.
scubaguyjohn Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 The one thing I will give Apple is that the frames of their laptops are excellent quality. They too have hardware related issues (video card defect, fan issue, over heating) in various model years etc. As you stated clearly there are more than ten separate companies making and selling Z-Wave products. Even though most of them look like aszz and feel even worse, the key thing is that there is not one single vendor making them. Back to Insteon / Smartlabs, I am hoping very much that the partnership with Microsoft will help their R&D, finance, or at the very least help market penetration. Its safe to say that it was a Godsend that UDI decided to offer dual use (Insteon / Z-Wave) in one box. I have high hopes for 5.XX firmware so I can finally bridge two ISY Series Controllers to have X10, Insteon, Z-Wave, Zigbee, all in one home. I hear you... On Smarthome, if they had taken care of my keypad linc failures better, I would likely have a different opinion because they are, in general, very good. However, I believe they knew the parts had a high failure rate due to a design flaw and they didn't step up and support their customers (who have no other choice). In the long run, I do believe that one or more of the big boys must get involved as the average consumer can't deal with setting up isy, homeseer, etc...I'm constantly amazed at how much i have to rely on my tech background to get this stuff working properly....I feel like i'm still programming in machine language sometimes!
Teken Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 I hear you... On Smarthome, if they had taken care of my keypad linc failures better, I would likely have a different opinion because they are, in general, very good. However, I believe they knew the parts had a high failure rate due to a design flaw and they didn't step up and support their customers (who have no other choice). In the long run, I do believe that one or more of the big boys must get involved as the average consumer can't deal with setting up isy, homeseer, etc...I'm constantly amazed at how much i have to rely on my tech background to get this stuff working properly....I feel like i'm still programming in machine language sometimes! That is where I do have to give credit to Smartlabs HUB II device. As far as I can tell its pretty much plug and play. The UI and the App are quite polished (even if limited in features) but does allow everyone to get up and running very quickly. I was quite sadden to read from another Insteon member that the newly released HUB II has deprecated X10 support. On the surface it was noted that House Linc (HL) software has also been removed in terms of integration. My hopes was that someone at Smartlabs was going to integrate all the great features of the HL software (diagnostics) and conditional programming into the HUB. Based on a very quick review from others that actually own the device the above features have been removed. I know lots of folks were excited about the $39.99 price point but come on . . . That is probably why its only $39.99 because it can't do a damn thing!
larryllix Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Zwave products come from multiple suppliers, for example. Open platforms tend to be better supported, offer greater choices at lower price points. Same reasoning I don't buy Apple PC's....typically, substantially higher prices for less performance on a closed platform. I've used zwave fairly extensively so I'm not looking at it from a distance. As you say, however, i'm sure there are detractors on both sides. Agreed but on repeated research I only see wall switches, plug-in modules and MS units from $10 more to double the Insteon prices. Not completely true. I did find one plug-in that was slightly cheaper than Insteon. Without any repeaters required for Insteon that tips the scales somewhat also. ISY with it's choice is a real good place to be right now, for sure. Who knows what will happen to Insteon. Would be real nice if they licensed it to another manufacturer. It's all made by Intertek in China, anyway, and probably would be from another manufacturer too. Hopefully a different flavour and quality spec though. However, I do see much more selection, which is nice.
Teken Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 It's all made by Intertek in China, anyway, and probably would be from another manufacturer too. Hopefully a different flavour and quality spec though. Intertek is the testing lab similar to UL /cUL which assists the company in compliance, and meeting safety guidelines for the product. They are not the makers of the Insteon device(s). As an aside even when people joke about it. I am extremely surprised not one Chinese manufacturer has tried to release a copy cat device. As this has been done to millions of other products from sneakers, to electronics. Very surprised this has never happen . . .
larryllix Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) Intertek is the testing lab similar to UL /cUL which assists the company in compliance, and meeting safety guidelines for the product. They are not the makers of the Insteon device(s). As an aside even when people joke about it. I am extremely surprised not one Chinese manufacturer has tried to release a copy cat device. As this has been done to millions of other products from sneakers, to electronics. Very surprised this has never happen . . . Intertek testing labs? LOL Glad you cleared that up! I guess that is the symbol with incomplete circle with ETL in it. New glasses coming! The are made in China, according to the label. Perhaps some politics/culture are in play to stop one Chinese manufacturer attempting to undermine the other manufacturer and side-sell the clone product. The original mfg. loses out and you piss off the world marketers, namely SmartLabs/Home in this case. The net for China would be negative gain in the end. There are lots of other products the world wants made in China. Edited November 19, 2014 by larryllix
Teken Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Intertek testing labs? LOL Glad you cleared that up! I guess that is the symbol with incomplete circle with ETL in it. New glasses coming! The are made in China, according to the label. Perhaps some politics/culture are in play to stop one Chinese manufacturer attempting to undermine the other manufacturer and side-sell the clone product. The original mfg. loses out and you piss off the world marketers, namely SmartLabs/Home in this case. The net for China would be negative gain in the end. There are lots of other products the world wants made in China. Yes the product is indeed made in China. I was simply clarifying who Intertek (ETL) was for the benefit of others who may be reading this thread.
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