Random communication issues

[szakreski]

I am requesting advice on an annoying problem.

 

I have over 20 Switchlincs distributed over a large house, (and another 35 soon to be installed).  When I initiate a scene command such as turn OFF a group of Switchlincs, either by way of a scene, or by way of a ISY program, invariably one or two of the devices fail to respond.  The log shows the command was sent and the status of the device as being in the desired state, (i.e.; OFF), however that state does not match the actual status of the device.  If I re-query the misbehaving devices they will update their state to the correct status (i.e.; device is still ON).

 

The device affected is completely random.  The misbehaving devices can be in various parts of the house at different times.

 

The fact there are 20 Dual-band Switchlincs pretty well rules out the possibility of one phase of the circuit panel being omitted and also rules out inadequate RF coverage.

 

The problem also occurs when turning the devices ON.  The problem occurs on various programs and scenes.

 

Some kind of interference seems likely, however I'm not sure what kind of interference would cause the above symptoms.  RF interference?  Line Side interference? Is this an Insteon problem, or ISY problem? Does the ISY participate when a scene command is executed?  What is being 'hit' by the interference, surely not the devices themselves since the problem is random all over the house.  The ISY?  

 

If I keep repeating the scene command, eventually all the devices will respond correctly, but it sometimes takes 4 or 5 repeats.

 

Some diagnostic guidance would be appreciated.

 

SteveZ

Edited November 10, 2014 by szakreski

[Techman]

Did the scenes ever work correctly?

 

Do you have any CFL or Florescent  bulbs in the house, the ballasts associated with these bulbs can slowly fail causing powerline interference.

 

Have you added any new electronics lately that could be causing powerline interference.

 

 

[LeeG]

Run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3.   From the Admin Console turn a specific device On then Off several times.  Watch the Hops Left=x count to see if it is at 0 or varies from command.  Dual Band devices (if all the existing SwitchLincs are Dual Band) may not have the RF coverage being inside a box, particularly if metal boxes.

 

Repeat the test on different devices around the house.  Post the trace if needed.

 

An ISY Scene invoked from the PLM (by a Program, from a remote app, Admin Console) does not have multiple retries so these tend to be where Insteon network issues show first. 

[oberkc]

In addition, the only test I know to isolate RF v Powerline is to perform the phase bridging test (forget exact name).  Typically, this involves putting one device into a broadcast mode, initiated by four very-rapid presses of the set button.  From there, observe the response of other dual-band devices.  Depending on device, you are generally looking for at least one green LED indication.

 

The ISY also includes some scene tests to guage the quality of communications.  Run a couple of times to be sure, on various scenes that you have.  Make sure programs are not being invoked as a result of status changes of any included device.  (Temporarily disable, if need be.)

 

Intermittent operation is, in my mind, a sign of marginal communications.  I do not believe your problem is an "ISY problem", rather, a more general "insteon" problem.

[szakreski]

Thanks for replies and suggestions.  The problem appeared to be related to the 2 second ramp rate I gave to each sequential device being turned ON or OFF in the program.  When I reduced the ramp rate to minimum, the problem went away immediately.  Odd, but I'll take it and move on.

 

SteveZ

[oberkc]

very odd.  I wonder if, during the two-second ramping, that the dimmed load was causing some type of interference.  If you are up for an experiment, you could temporarily remove the loads, re-apply the 2-second ramp rate, and see if the problem remains gone.

[stusviews]

What's the load?

[szakreski]

The load is a mixture of incandescent and LED lighting controlled mostly by 2477D's with a few LampLincs thrown in.  All the components are purchased in the last 3 months.  Over the last 2 days I ran and re-ran both scenes and programs of various combinations of devices trying to identify interference probably 50 times.  Invariably,  one or two of the devices would not respond correctly.   For example, I would have a scene to turn off a group of lights, and when I ran the scene either manually or with a program, one or two devices failed to turn off even though ISY reported the device was off.  When I queried the offending device, it updated its state correctly, showing it was in fact still ON.  Both the device and location of the offending device was random, no pattern.

 

On advice from Insteon tech support, I tried running a program with a time delay between each command, and it worked flawlessly.  I then deleted the 2 second ramp rate delay, and deleted the time delays, and suddenly everything started to work with 100% reliability. 

Edited November 12, 2014 by szakreski

[oberkc]

Sure sounds like some type of interference to me.  Hopefully, it won't come back.

 

Were this me, I would be trying to identify the cause and eliminating.