Brian H Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 Saw this link on the Smarthome Forums. Lots of Insteon devices not supported at least in the early implementations. http://www.thedigitalmediazone.com/2015/06/04/insteon-hub-pro-adds-homekit-loses-lots-of-insteon/
paulbates Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 Thanks Brian, This is a pretty chilling list of 'not supported'. Some fairly egregious omissions from my point of view. "While adding Insteon devices using Insteon+, you may encounter an alert informing you that Insteon+ does not currently support the a particular type of device. Insteon+ supports many of our most popular Insteon devices. Use the table below to identify if your device is supported." I skipped the items that are supported, complete list here Device Not Supported in Insteon+ App Open/Close Micro Module WiFi Cameras Open/Close Sensor Hidden Door Sensor Motion Sensor Leak Sensor Smoke Bridge IO Module Mini Remotes Door Lock and Deadbolt Controller IR Transmitter IR Receiever Serial Bridge iMeter Solo SynchroLinc Wondering what this means: Dimmer Keypad (6-Button) -- Controls connected light only Dimmer Keypad (8-Button) -- Controls connected light only On/Off Keypad (6-Button) -- Controls connected light only On/Off Keypad (8-Button) -- Controls connected light only And... On/Off Outlet (2014) -- Controls top outlet only
paulbates Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 One guy's opinion: they're just supporting things that allow using a phone as a simple remote control, as HomeKit will. However, the over simplicity of Homekit approach is essentially punishing longer term customers.
stusviews Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 Wondering what this means:Dimmer Keypad (6-Button) -- Controls connected light only Dimmer Keypad (8-Button) -- Controls connected light only On/Off Keypad (6-Button) -- Controls connected light only On/Off Keypad (8-Button) -- Controls connected light only And... On/Off Outlet (2014) -- Controls top outlet only The secondary buttons are currently not available to include in a scene Each the top and bottom outlets can normally be controlled separately. One Beta tester found that the On/Off Module does, in fact, work. The device is still being tested. I'm sure more devices and features will be added before it's released.
Teken Posted June 5, 2015 Author Posted June 5, 2015 I had indicated the list in post 50 I guess no one took the time to read it. I am at a complete loss as to how this HUB Pro will move forward now all of these limitations have been fleshed out. I think the humble HUB II is looking better each day given it supports most of the Insteon line up and also has Apple Watch Support. I was really hoping to be dead wrong about how this HUB Pro was going to be. Maybe this whole Apple Home Kit isn't worth the effort to support in the long run???
Scottmichaelj Posted June 6, 2015 Posted June 6, 2015 I had indicated the list in post 50 I guess no one took the time to read it. I am at a complete loss as to how this HUB Pro will move forward now all of these limitations have been fleshed out. I think the humble HUB II is looking better each day given it supports most of the Insteon line up and also has Apple Watch Support. I was really hoping to be dead wrong about how this HUB Pro was going to be. Maybe this whole Apple Home Kit isn't worth the effort to support in the long run??? Quite possibly, however I think they sent the app very early to Apple who sat on it for a while before signing off on it. So there could be a firmware/update coming but then again you and I both seem to agree "this is Smarthome we're talking about" and saw this coming. Sounds like Michel isnt interested in getting the ISY working directly with AppleKit either. So this leaves us with Mobilinc or another app to integrate with Siri if thats what everyone wants. At this point I am unimpressed so far what I seen from the Smarthome Hub Pro and have no interest in it any longer.
Teken Posted June 6, 2015 Author Posted June 6, 2015 Quite possibly, however I think they sent the app very early to Apple who sat on it for a while before signing off on it. So there could be a firmware/update coming but then again you and I both seem to agree "this is Smarthome we're talking about" and saw this coming. Sounds like Michel isnt interested in getting the ISY working directly with AppleKit either. So this leaves us with Mobilinc or another app to integrate with Siri if thats what everyone wants. At this point I am unimpressed so far what I seen from the Smarthome Hub Pro and have no interest in it any longer. To be fair to Smarthome / Smartlabs the exclusion of sensors is a Apple Home Kit issue. Since the (sensors) do not have a Apple Home Kit chip more than likely this is why its not allowed to be included. This is why I asked the question of (IF) newer Insteon devices would included the embedded chips to allow them to operate with Apple Home Kit. Of course the deafening silence at Smarthome / Smartlabs is ever present . . . There is a major silver liner here in my eyes: This will push forward the International UDI PLM in my mind for the release of the Insteon chips so this can get back on track. Once people see the limitations and the lack of supported devices people will be asking what is the time line for said products. I feel sorry for all of those early adopters who laid out all that cash with so limited functions. I was really hoping to see some inkling of conditional features and diagnostics. Hoping someone who gets one in this forum can shed some light as to what it can do.
lilyoyo1 Posted June 6, 2015 Posted June 6, 2015 From what I have heard the way homekit works, I don't think the chips would be embedded in devices Unless Insteon comes out with a homekit only line which I don't foresee them doing. Putting a homekit chip in it, would prevent other devices from using. Since Apple wants to control the security of homekit, no other device would be able to control that particular device. I actually prefer Insteon taking the approach that they are doing. The more I read and see, the limitations of homekit needs to be expanded more before added certain classes of devices. For example, homekit customers would expect to be able to trigger other devices with a sensor but they can't. Why include them right now which could cause confusion when there is not much you can do with them. Homekit does not handle "scenes" the way insteo does so why add additional button support at this time. With a brand new system and the amount of control i'm certain was exerted over development, not pushing the envelope early on probably the best decision.
xKing Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Nice article about the HomeKit compatibility problems. Did't know it requires special hardware to support.
Teken Posted June 10, 2015 Author Posted June 10, 2015 Nice article about the HomeKit compatibility problems. Did't know it requires special hardware to support. That was stated many times in several threads and in a few articles. In the big picture all of this should have been hashed out long before Apple Home Kit was even announced. Sounds to me Apple did not consider and validate what a gong show it would be with just a standard being issued. Versus making every maker follow specs and hardware requirements. I am all in favor for the above and won't throw a stone at Apple for doing so. However, this tight lip BS is exactly what got them into the situation they are facing now. Lets see what happens in the next 24 months . . .
Teken Posted June 10, 2015 Author Posted June 10, 2015 The Insteon Hub Pro is the special hardware. LOL . . . I don't think stating the HUB Pro is *special* is exactly the phrase those who own this product now would call it!
G W Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 LOL . . . I don't think stating the HUB Pro is *special* is exactly the phrase those who own this product now would call it! It's very 'special.' So special, it rides the short bus.
Scottmichaelj Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 The Insteon Hub Pro is the special hardware. Maybe the chip is in the hub and then the hub just communicates via Insteon communications to the other devices like normal?
Teken Posted June 10, 2015 Author Posted June 10, 2015 Maybe the chip is in the hub and then the hub just communicates via Insteon communications to the other devices like normal? See this is what I thought but this doesn't explain why it doesn't allow any of the sensors to be used or included? I really can't understand why a sensor can't send its state to a controller? It's not like it has command & control over the HA Controller. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent
lilyoyo1 Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 It doesn't communicate like normal. It picks up the device, goes through apples servers which spits out the commands. That's why there aren't true inteon scenes. The hub isn't writing to devices. Apple's servers are handling everything
xKing Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 By the special hardware I meant the co-processor which handles the encryption between hub and apple servers. It not possible to make an existing hub HomeKit compliant without installing that special co-processor. Wondering what would Philips do with the Hue bridge?
csddavies Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I just got mine today. Horrible experience. Here's my issues so far (I sent this in a support ticket). I am a computer programmer, so I feel I am at an expert level, but too many issues to address. 1) Does this hub/app support the 2441TH wired thermostat? I can not get it to recognize it. THE SIDE of the hub box shows it supporting the thermostat. 2) Is there no sunrise/sunset setting for scheduling? If not, this is a deal breaker for me. 3) I had a hell of a time getting it to recognize plugin modules (x01x0Ex41 and x01x0Ex43). It finally did. 4) Can't you configure devices with the SET button? I had to use the 6 digit code for all devices. 5) It seems like once the power is lost to the hub the app stops controlling devices. 6) I had one device I tried to remove and it failed 1/2 way through. Now whenever I try to add it the app says it lost connection to the hub. I've tried factory resetting the device (but not the hub yet) 7) Will the hub ever support the wifi cameras? Overall this is a very unpleasant experience. I'm thinking of sending this hub back and sticking with my old one until they figure this all out.
Teken Posted June 18, 2015 Author Posted June 18, 2015 Who are you talking to? Ideals are peaceful - History is violent
G W Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Who are you talking to? Ideals are peaceful - History is violent He's telling the forum members.
Teken Posted June 18, 2015 Author Posted June 18, 2015 He's telling the forum members. For what ever reason the top portion of his reply was cut off from TT?? Now that I logged into a computer I can see he sent in a request and outlined the issues he was seeing. Number 5 on his list doesn't make sense to me? Why would he expect the App to operate if the HUB Pro lost power? The Apple Home Kit server still has to connect to the HUB Pro?
csddavies Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I meant after power resumes it seems to be unable to communicate with any devices. So if I unplug it and plug it back in (reset) any on/off commands are not getting through (at least for me).
Teken Posted June 18, 2015 Author Posted June 18, 2015 I would suggest you wait a few minutes for the device to reconnect to the cloud. Then see if the same behavior is seen. This is one of many reasons having a cloud based controller is simply a disaster waiting to happen. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent
lilyoyo1 Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Smarthome has a list of supported devices on the hubpro's webpage. It does not list the thermostat so I assume it's not supported yet. http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2243-222-hub-pro.html Homekit handles schedules like the old revolv system. It does not do timers in the normal sense. You set an "on" time and an "off" scene based on specific times. Sunset/sunrise may be added as homekit evolves but for now thats how its set up. As Teken stated, once you cut power to the hub you should lose connection the the devices. Once the hub is off there is not way for the devices to talk to apples servers to get their commands. Homekit and the hub just came out. it would be foolish of us to believe that support for additional features/devices would not continue. The first generation iphone and IOS didn't have everything IOS has now.
lilyoyo1 Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 another thing, because of going through apples servers, homekit does not keep true status of devices. If you changed the status while the hub was unplugged, the app may not be aware that a device status has changed. For example, a device is on when you unplug the hub and you turn it off while unplugged. Apple won't know that so it will not issue an "on" command.
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