Remove the arbitrary limits, enable a pro script interface

[fahrvergnuugen]

First let me preface by saying that I'm pretty happy with how easy the ISY was to setup, link with all my devices and do some basic things with. The REST API is excellent, and I'm really happy about being able to easily trigger different ISY programs, devices, set variables, etc by making simple HTTP requests.

 

Bravo for that.

 

But now I'm discovering that the programming is severely limited. You can't - for example - make the porch light brighten to 100% when motion is detected then return to its original brightness, because the ISY programming interface has no way to store the brightness setting in a variable.

 

No big deal though, such a task is trivial with a PHP or Node.js script so I'll just have the ISY hand off the heavy lifting to my home server. Oh wait, now I've also discovered that I can't call the script from the ISY program unless I drop another $50 on the network module!

 

I'm also learning that the arbitrary 300 program limit is no where near as much as you might think because the capability of the ISY programs are so limited. Because there is no ELSEIF construct, you need three "programs" just to make a simple if, then, elseif, else script. Likewise with loops, there is no LOOP construct so you need three to five programs as a work around.

 

All of these work arounds also cause unnecessary overhead and slow the system down, yet it feels like they were left out on purpose to up-sell people on modules, and that's really too bad.

 

So my product suggestion is to remove these arbitrary limitations and create an "advanced" programming interface that allows you to write your own code and not be limited to the options in the GUI. Charge more up front if you have to, but don't cripple the device just to up sell people on licenses after they've shelled out a few hundred bucks on the hardware. There's no faster way to burn karma with customers in my opinion.

[LeeG]

There is a Repeat function that may give the Loop capability you are looking for. 

[stusviews]

But now I'm discovering that the programming is severely limited. You can't - for example - make the porch light brighten to 100% when motion is detected then return to its original brightness, because the ISY programming interface has no way to store the brightness setting in a variable.

 

The ISY may not "know" the previous On-level, but I do. So, it's not difficult to restore that level.

[Xathros]

The ability to store an on level to a variable and push it back to a device later is coming in 5.X due out in beta soon!  Stay tuned...

 

-Xathros

[MWareman]

Assuming the porch light was turned to the normal, dim level with a scene, just enable the scene after flashing the lights to 100%. That works for me most of the time.

[fahrvergnuugen]

I have no problem with the limited programming capability, I understand that this has to be consumer friendly (at the same time I'm happy they are enhancing its capabilities).

 

My main gripe is that I have to shell out another $50 just to get this thing to be able to make a simple HTTP get request when it already has a killer REST api.

[jwagner010]

You get what you pay for. Well worth the $50.

[MWareman]

You get what you pay for. Well worth the $50.

And when 5.0 drops, well be able to do variable substitution and this feature will get even better!

[Davonavo]

My program = 

Night Time Folder (after Sunset, before Sunrise) 

If

Yard Sensor or Porch Sensor switched On 

Then

Set Porch Light 90% 

Wait 15 minutes

Set Porch Light 40%

 

Assumes 40% normal On value for Porch Light

This has worked well for me for a long time = FYI

[ISYhbsh01]

Charge more up front if you have to, but don't cripple the device just to up sell people on licenses after they've shelled out a few hundred bucks on the hardware. There's no faster way to burn karma with customers in my opinion.

 

 

My main gripe is that I have to shell out another $50 just to get this thing to be able to make a simple HTTP get request when it already has a killer REST api.

 

Hi and welcome aboard,

 

I have one ISY-994 Pro, one ISY-994, and one older ISY-99. I use the ISY-994 Pro at home and the other two at my offices. Only at home do I need to use the Network Resources module & more than 300 programs. In my two offices my needs are rather simple & I don't need more than 300 programs & the Network Resources module. So I for one would not want UDI to charge more up front and include the modules in every ISY.

[fahrvergnuugen]

I'm on the fence here, as a programmer this product is a disappointment and about 2 seconds away from sending it back. I bought it thinking it would be less work than building my own from scratch but if I think about what it's actually doing for my home automation, and I think about the things that I have to spend more money to get it to do, I don't think I can justify the price.

 

If I think about it, for $200 the only thing it enables is the ability to set timers, delays and count how many times a switch was turned on. I've wasted several hours trying to understand the counter intuitive "programming" interface & events, only to come to the conclusion that it won't do half of what I thought it could do. To do anything more advanced I have to write my own code outside the ISY and spend $50 to enable it to trigger my code via network request - and we haven't even gotten to mobile access yet.

 

As someone who writes APIs, I might as well just write my own event driven control script and be happy.

[paulbates]

Assumptions should be avoided when choosing an HA system. Research is key. You've written some of your requirements in this thread.. write them all down and then use that as a shopping list and research and compare.

 

You are addressing an audience that, for the most part, are very happy with their ISYs and have years of stories about implementing a variety functionalities. To me, there's a lot more to "what is being done" as opposed to "how its being done". There are myriad rest interface possibilities with the network module, but taking time with the wiki an board are required to understand that.

 

Which brings me to price. HA SW capabilities cost money. If $50 for a network module is a concern, you should think hard about venturing into HA. Or, as you state, spend the time and develop your own system from scratch.

 

HomeSeer and its integration with .net might be a better choice for you. However, there are plugins and price considerations there as well.

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Teken]

There's also some free software solutions provided by various people on the Smarthome forum. All of them require a computer running 24/7/365 though.

 

If you already have one running in the back ground the energy needs are not an issue. If you expand on what the ISY Series Controller is able to support either via software plugins or hardware upgrades. For the long term its hard to find another HA Controller that offers so much at the price point of admission.

 

Anyone who has ever asked me which ISY model to get because they are simply testing the HA waters. I always tell them to buy the cheapest model and expand from there. This allows a low price point to test, play, and understand. If the controller and how it functions is to their liking and later they feel the need for more capability and power of control.

 

Its as easy as purchasing any of the 16 software plugins that meet their needs. If they see value in other technologies such as Zigbee, Z-Wave, again its as easy as purchasing the hardware / software module at your own pace and budget.

 

There are a few intangible things which I don't believe most people take into consideration when purchasing a HA Controller.

 

- How many people own these units and actually use them?

- What kind of support is provided and can you count on it?

- Is development ongoing and does it provide long term value?

- Is the community active and able to help?

- Will they be around or will they kick you to the curb when something else new comes along?

 

Its safe to say purchasing a Revolv controller was a epic mistake for some. Then, there are those who have purchased any Smartlabs controller. Every release has literally left the owners at a stand still and offered no direct contact with the vendor. No upgrades, no updates, no interaction on any level.

 

I may not always agree with everything that UDI does, or the pace at which they decide to do so. But, this does not counter the 99% of the excellent things they strive to do, bring, and develop for pretty much a one time purchase. They are by far the most dedicated company who is customer driven and focused.

 

They are outside of a few companies I deal with one of the few that actually engage the end users.

 

NOTE: You can try any software plugin at anytime and if you see no real value in it. They (UDI) will be more than happy to refund the total amount to you. That is a risk free purchase in my mind so you have nothing to lose except time in learning how to think and do things the ISY way.

[Xathros]

Most serious automation devices have a learning curve.  The ISY is no different in that regard.

 

The ISY programming is different from many other systems and the differences give it some very powerful capabilities.  There are things that other systems do that the ISY does not currently do.  Some of those things are coming, for some there are reasonable workarounds and some, the ISY will never address as they are outside of it's scope. 

 

As Paul said above, most of us here are very happy with the ISY and many of us arrived here after abandoning other platforms.

 

For the price, the ISY is quite capable in my opinion.  I would encourage you to stick with it for a bit longer and learn it's capabilities and the interface before throwing in the towel - at least hold on to it and keep playing up until your return period is nearing expiration.  There are many here that have had their own frustrations in their early days with the ISY.  Feel free to ask for help on these forums.  There is a userbase here like nowhere else ready to help and guide you as necessary.

 

If you have the skills that it takes to roll your own HA system, then you certainly have what it takes to master the ISY.  Just give it a chance.

 

-Xathros

[oberkc]

Xathros post is about how I see it.  I use some music software and video production software.  We have all seen it with products like MSWord and excel.  There is a relationship between power and complexity and I have seen nobody avoid this relationship.  The easy stuff is nice, but then the functional limitations come to bite you. 

 

I expect a learning curve on systems that provide power and flexibility.  In my experience, it is naive to think otherwise.  Having said this, I find that the ISY strikes a wonderful balance between these competing priorities.  Is there a better solution out there?  Maybe.  Unfortunately, I have not looked very hard because I am so satisfied with what I have I saw no need to look.