"is on" status VS "turns on" control

[jkraus]

I have always had a little problem understanding the difference between "is on" status VS "turns on" control.

 

For Example, I have a program that turns on a garage light for motion sensor, and it stays on until the motion sensor times out.  There are a couple of conditions in the program:  Is is between dusk and dawn, and if a KPL switch is off meaning I have not already tuned the same light via the  KPL switch.

 

This program has worked well for years with the condition "turns on", but recently was intermittent.  so I replaced the motion sensor.  Works half the time, so may be a communication issue, but I wanted to make sure I had the conditions correct.

 

Should the program be for the  light turn on  be "if the motion sensor is on"  or "when the motion sensor is turned on", like I said, I always had a bit of confusion in this area

 

Thanks

 

Joe

[Techman]

Can you post a copy of your program.

 

If it's intermittent it's probably a communications issue.  Do you have any dual band devices or access points close to the motion sensor, if not you might want to add one to see if that helps.

[oberkc]

Like techman, my first reaction to most intermittent problems, including this one, tends to be to look at comm problems.

 

Regarding you specifion question re status vs control, there are a couple of factors come into play here that could favor one approach versus the other. The basic difference is that CONTROL is ON will trigger on receipt of every ON command, regardless of current state of the device. STATUS will not. So...if your motion sensor is currently ON (and past The timeout period) and senses motion again, it will send another ON command. If using CONTROL as a condition, the program would trigger upon receipt of the ON command. If using STATUS as a condition, it will not trigger, since there was no CHANGE in status, since the sensor was alreay ON.

 

Personally, I use an ISY program (not scenes) to control response to motion sensors. I like to reset my countdown timer at each ON command. This tends to suggest CONTROL as preferable to STATUS as a program condition.

[jkraus]

Techman

thanks for the response.

 I do have an access point quite close to the Motion sensor, but thought maybe a range extender would be better so ordered a couple.

 

Oberkc

for the program, I only want the motion sensor timer off to turn the light of IF it has not been turned on by an KPL switch that turned on that light.  so  the program on/off comand is something like:

 

IF receive motion on comand

And time is between dusk and dawn the next day

And the KPL A is off (a switch for a scene that has that light in it)

AND kpl D is off (a switch for another scene that has that light in it)

 

Then turn light on

 

 

 

IF receive motion off command

And time is between dusk and dawn the next day

And the KPL A is off (a switch for a scene that has that light in it)

AND kpl D is off (a switch for another scene that has that light in it)

 

Then turn light off

[oberkc]

Given your programmatic approach, I see a couple of basic concepts:

 

- you are relying on ON commands from the sensor to turn lights ON, and OFF commands from the sensor to turn lights OFF.  This is fine, but I choose to use a program WAIT command to turn off the lights, rather than a command from the sensor.  My approach tends to favor a CONTROL condition.  With your approach, I might choose STATUS, instead.  In a practical sense, it may not make a functional difference, but it should avoid some unnecessary insteon traffic over the powerlines.

- Your second program is curious to me...What happens if the sensor OFF command comes after dawn?  Does the light stay on indefinitely?

- are you concerned with denying yourself the ability to manually turn off the light if it were triggered on by the motion sensor.  Given the approach you take, I assume you would have to first turn on one of your KPL buttons, then turn it off. 

[jkraus]

"- Your second program is curious to me...What happens if the sensor OFF command comes after dawn?  Does the light stay on indefinitely?

- are you concerned with denying yourself the ability to manually turn off the light if it were triggered on by the motion sensor.  Given the approach you take, I assume you would have to first turn on one of your KPL buttons, then turn it off."

 

yes, you are correct on the off command, I really do not need the dawn/dusk criteria, has not been a problem, but could be in a very narrow window

 

yes, if the light is on from the sensor I can wait until time off or hit the kpl on then off, or hit off on a remote, works fine, no problem

Edited January 16, 2015 by jkraus

[stusviews]

CONTROL requires the the device itself issue the signal. The device will issue the signal every time, no matter the state of the device.

 

STATUS will issue the command only if the state of the device changes. But any device (i.e., controller) can change the state. It does not have to be the device itself.

[416to305]

Stu explained it best.  You can press up on a Switchlinc 5 times in a row if you want, and the system sees that as you pressing control ON 5 times.  Great for if you wanted to do something like increment a variable, such as every time I press up, disable the motion sensor for 20 minutes.  Press up 3 times, it's disabled for an hour type thing.  Status would be that the light was off, and just came on.  It doesn't care that you pressed On 100 times while it was on, status just sees that it is on.  Control is what sees you pressing it so many times.

 

I always got hung up on that when I started but it makes sense now.  A motion sensor, a switchlinc, a KPL etc they can all send control ON for a light, so the benefit is that control lets you define what happens based on how the light was turned on, vs status just caring that it's on or off.

 

Status is super helpful too for reminder type programs, because the IF is only true while the status is.  For example, say you want a notification if a light has been on for an hour.  You can simply do:

 

If status of Light is not off (allowing any level of dimness not just 100%)

Then wait 1 hour

Send notification that light is still on

 

Where this is great is that if the light is off and goes on, then IF is true, as status is light is on.  That means the 1 hour timer starts right then.  However, say you turn the light off after 15 minutes, well the status is no longer on, it's off, meaning this program IF statement is now false, meaning the Then programs all stop, as in no more waiting, and no notification is sent.  So you don't even have to write another program to be like "If light goes off, stop running program "Notification"" etc type thing.

Edited January 16, 2015 by 416to305