rayzor Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I've had the Insteon Garage Door Switch/Relay/Sensor setup for a while. Recently, the ISY is reporting communication failures with it. If I Query the device it responds with no issues. Most of the time it works. It also seems that rarely the scene gets out of sync and a Query fixes it as well. is the garage door module going bad? Should I request a replacement from Smarthome?
oberkc Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Failure of the IOLinc is not my first guess. I would try a few simple troubleshooting steps first. Is the IOLinc plugged into the same outlet or circuit as the opener? Does unplugging the opener solve the problems? What is plugged into the same outlet and circuit as the PLM? Does moving it to another circuit solve the problems?
rayzor Posted February 24, 2015 Author Posted February 24, 2015 The IOLinc is plugged into the same outlet as the opener. It has always been this way and has worked for 6 months in the past until just recently. Nothing else is plugged into that outlet. Not sure about the circuit, but nothing has changed recently either. I know this is no guarantee obviously. I will try unplugging the IOLinc for a few and plug it back in and see if it helps.
SteveL Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 rayzor, It sounds like the I/O Linc might be right on the edge of consistent communication. You can try to open the Event Viewer in the Admin Console and set it to Level 3. Now query the I/O Linc and see how many hops away it is. If it says 0 hops remaining then all it takes is a little noise and the I/O Linc may not get the signal back to the PLM. Since the I/O Linc is a signal band device you are limited to the powerline only. Sometimes plugging a Range Extender into the pass through outlet of the I/O Linc can help with signal propagation.
rayzor Posted February 25, 2015 Author Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) rayzor, It sounds like the I/O Linc might be right on the edge of consistent communication. You can try to open the Event Viewer in the Admin Console and set it to Level 3. Now query the I/O Linc and see how many hops away it is. If it says 0 hops remaining then all it takes is a little noise and the I/O Linc may not get the signal back to the PLM. Since the I/O Linc is a signal band device you are limited to the powerline only. Sometimes plugging a Range Extender into the pass through outlet of the I/O Linc can help with signal propagation. Yes most of the time it says Hops Left=1 but every couple of queries it says Hops Left=0. Any idea why one time it would have 1 and the next it would have 0? I actually have an INSTEON 2663-222 ON/OFF OUTLET, WHITE on a different circuit in the garage, and it is literally 2 inches away from an outlet on the same circuit. Rather than purchasing the range extender, would it make more sense to just plug the IOLinc in the outlet next to the 2663-222 On/Off Outlet? Here is what I see when it goes to 0 Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:07 PM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 2B F8 FE 0F 19 01 Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:07 PM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 2B.F8.FE 0F 19 01 06 LTSREQ (01) Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:08 PM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.F8.FE 2A.A2.D3 27 00 01 (01) Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:08 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 2B.F8.FE-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:08 PM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 2B F8 FE 0F 19 00 Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:08 PM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 2B.F8.FE 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:10 PM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.F8.FE 2A.A2.D3 27 00 00 (00) Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:10 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 2B.F8.FE-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:10 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2B F8 FE 2] [ST] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:10 PM : [ 2B F8 FE 2] ST 0 Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:10 PM : [D2D-CMP 0008] STS [2B F8 FE 2] ST op=1 Event(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=255 uom=0 prec=-1) --> false Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:10 PM : [D2D-CMP 0008] STS [2B F8 FE 2] ST op=1 Event(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:10 PM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.F8.FE 2A.A2.D3 23 00 00 (00) Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:10 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 2B.F8.FE-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:10 PM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 2B F8 FE 0F 19 01 Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:11 PM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 2B.F8.FE 0F 19 01 06 LTSREQ (01) Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:11 PM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.F8.FE 2A.A2.D3 27 00 01 (01) Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:11 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 2B.F8.FE-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:11 PM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 2B F8 FE 0F 19 00 Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:11 PM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 2B.F8.FE 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:12 PM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.F8.FE 2A.A2.D3 27 00 00 (00) Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:12 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 2B.F8.FE-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:12 PM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.F8.FE 2A.A2.D3 23 00 00 (00) Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:12 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 2B.F8.FE-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Edited February 25, 2015 by rayzor
LeeG Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 That 2663-222 OutletLinc is also powerline only. The Hops Left=x number changing frequently indicates poor comm to the I/O Linc. A Dual Band device may help as was already suggested. It would have to be in RF range of another Dual Band device.
rayzor Posted February 25, 2015 Author Posted February 25, 2015 That 2663-222 OutletLinc is also powerline only. What?! When I bought this it read that it is both Powerline and RF and checking the specs now mentions it: RF Beacon Yes Radio Frequency 915.0 MHz US/Canada Radio Frequency Range Up to 250 feet
LeeG Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 My mistake, sorry. That is the newest OutletLinc that controls both outlets and is Dual Band. The older OutletLinc 2472D (dimmer) is also Dual band. The 2473S relay is powerline only.
stusviews Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 The 2663 Outlet is dual-band. The 2450 I/O Linc is powerline only.
rayzor Posted February 25, 2015 Author Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) So out of curiosity, I am surprised that communication could be bad. When I consider my garage, there is about 15 feet between where I have the IO Linc plugged in to the Panel, and about 20 feet between the panel and the OutletLinc, so a total of 35 feet of electrical line between the two devices (I still have pictures of my house wired before insulation/sheetrock got put on to verify). Isn't 35 feet close enough that this shouldn't be a concern? I have many other devices in the house that I know are more than 50 feet of line in between the 2 devices and I have never had an issue. Or does the OutletLinc not rebroadcast the signal sent by the IOLinc over the powerline? Edited February 25, 2015 by rayzor
rayzor Posted February 25, 2015 Author Posted February 25, 2015 Here I captured the failure of the IOLinc when I click 'On' in ISYAdmin Console every once in a while: Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:43 PM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 2B F8 FE 0F 11 02 Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:43 PM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 2B.F8.FE 0F 11 02 06 LTONRR (02) Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:44 PM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.F8.FE 2A.A2.D3 27 11 02 LTONRR (02) Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:44 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 2B.F8.FE-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:44 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2B F8 FE 1] [ERR] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:44 PM : [ 2B F8 FE 1] ERR 0 Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:49 PM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 2B F8 FE 0F 11 02 Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:49 PM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 2B.F8.FE 0F 11 02 06 LTONRR (02) Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:50 PM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.F8.FE 2A.A2.D3 27 11 02 LTONRR (02) Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:50 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 2B.F8.FE-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:50 PM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.F8.FE 2A.A2.D3 23 11 02 LTONRR (02) Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:50 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 2B.F8.FE-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:54 PM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 2B F8 FE 0F 11 02 Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:54 PM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 2B.F8.FE 0F 11 02 06 LTONRR (02) Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:56 PM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.F8.FE 2A.A2.D3 27 11 02 LTONRR (02) Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:56 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 2B.F8.FE-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:57 PM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 2B F8 FE 0F 11 02 Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:57 PM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 2B.F8.FE 0F 11 02 06 LTONRR (02) Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:59 PM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.F8.FE 2A.A2.D3 23 11 02 LTONRR (02) Tue 02/24/2015 05:23:59 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 2B.F8.FE-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Tue 02/24/2015 05:24:02 PM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 2B F8 FE 0F 11 02 Tue 02/24/2015 05:24:02 PM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 2B.F8.FE 0F 11 02 06 LTONRR (02) Tue 02/24/2015 05:24:03 PM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.F8.FE 2A.A2.D3 2B 11 02 LTONRR (02) Tue 02/24/2015 05:24:03 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 2B.F8.FE-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 02/24/2015 05:24:09 PM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 2B F8 FE 0F 11 02 Tue 02/24/2015 05:24:09 PM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 2B.F8.FE 0F 11 02 06 LTONRR (02) Tue 02/24/2015 05:24:09 PM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.F8.FE 2A.A2.D3 27 11 02 LTONRR (02) Tue 02/24/2015 05:24:09 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 2B.F8.FE-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Tue 02/24/2015 05:24:12 PM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 2B F8 FE 0F 11 02 Tue 02/24/2015 05:24:12 PM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 2B.F8.FE 0F 11 02 06 LTONRR (02) Tue 02/24/2015 05:24:16 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2B F8 FE 1] [ERR] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Tue 02/24/2015 05:24:16 PM : [ 2B F8 FE 1] ERR 1 Is that helpful to understand why it failed?
LeeG Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Feet does not mean much. My detached garage is some 300 wire feet away and works okay. Has more to do with what is also powered from that circuit. The event trace is showing Max Hops Hops=3, Hops Left=1 which is fine if on the opposite 120v leg as the PLM. Run the 4 tap Set button beacon test to see if OutletLinc is on opposite 120v leg. The Hops Left=0 is a duplicate copy of the message from the I/O Linc. The Hops Left count is 1 on the primary response. Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:11 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 2B F8 FE 0F 19 00 Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:11 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 2B.F8.FE 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:12 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.F8.FE 2A.A2.D3 27 00 00 (00) Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:12 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 2B.F8.FE-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:12 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.F8.FE 2A.A2.D3 23 00 00 (00) Tue 02/24/2015 04:44:12 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 2B.F8.FE-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0
stusviews Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 The I/O Linc colud be 2' from the panel, but if it's on the opposite leg of the split, single-phase electric supply as the controller, then it may as well be a few hundred feet away if you don't have good coupling. Or something on the same circuit as the I/O Linc of controller is interfering with the Insteon signal. Start by determining what else is on the same circuit as the I/O Linc. Alternatively, use a long extension cord to power the I/O Linc form an outlet that you know is on a different circuit. Another choice is to plug any dual-band device into the I/O Linc pass-through outlet. BTW, the 2663 Outlet does rebroadcast the Insteon signal.
oberkc Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 It has always been this way and has worked for 6 months in the past until just recently. Yes. I have a couple of fluorescent lights controlled by a switchlinc. For the past two years, this has worked flawlessly. Now...not so much. Things happen. Devices age. Electrical gadgets are added to your house. I am with the others. I suspect your communications is marginal. My suggestion, like the others, is to start with the basics. Do you have communication across the legs of your electrical system? Do you have your PLM plugged into an outlet and circuit that is relatively free of signal-disruptive devices? Is your garage door opener causing the problem?
rayzor Posted February 25, 2015 Author Posted February 25, 2015 Run the 4 tap Set button beacon test to see if OutletLinc is on opposite 120v leg. Do I do this from the OutletLinc or the IOLinc? If I do it from the IOLinc it just opens the garage door, and no devices in the house blink. If I do it from the OutletLinc, some devices in my house blink green, some blink red as suspected. However, the IOLinc does not blink at all.
oberkc Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 IOLinc is not dual-band, so it will not respond, at all. The fact that some blink green is good and, I believe, sufficient confirmation that you have communication across legs of your electrical system.
Xathros Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 What else is plugged in in your garage? Battery chargers for tools and things like that can have an adverse effect on comms. Unplug everything other than the IOLinc, test again. If comms improve, add back items till the problem returns. Anything that kills your comms should be put on a filter. -Xathros
LeeG Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Tap the PLM Set button 4 times to start the RF beacon test. Look at the color of the LED blinking on the OutletLinc. I would expect it to be blinking Green. This test is to explain why the Hops Left=1 is occurring. When done tap the PLM Set button once to complete the beacon test. If not blinking or blinking Red there is something to look at. Edited February 25, 2015 by LeeG
larryllix Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 I had one of those cheap CFL bulbs drive me crazy for a while. This was not Insteon but my rf remote in the car. The range to open was hundreds of feet but the range to close was only about 15-20 feet.
rayzor Posted February 25, 2015 Author Posted February 25, 2015 I had one of those cheap CFL bulbs drive me crazy for a while. This was not Insteon but my rf remote in the car. The range to open was hundreds of feet but the range to close was only about 15-20 feet. I'm just going to have to go through and unplug and test as someone else mentioned. My whole house is LED lights but it has always been.
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