WayneUrso Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) I am having trouble in linking in 3 ToggleLink Switches (2466) to my ISY994i. First, my ISY has firmware, running version 4.2.18. The intent is for these 3 ToggleLink Switches to be used in a 4-way light switch situation (3 switches controlling one light from 3 different locations). After trying everything that I could think of (Reset the PLM, Reboot the ISY, set each switch back to factory settings, etc.) I am at an impasse. Despite everything that I have tried, when I try to add each of these switches, the result is the same – “Cannot determine Insteon Engine”. I have level 3 device communication events for each of the 3 switches. I would welcome any suggestions. Here are the logs: ToggleLink2C3ABD.txt ToggleLink2C39F1.txt ToggleLinkRelay2C3AC1.txt Edited March 5, 2015 by WayneUrso
WayneUrso Posted March 5, 2015 Author Posted March 5, 2015 I am having trouble in linking in 3 ToggleLink Switches (2466) to my ISY994i. First, my ISY has firmware, running version 4.2.18. The intent is for these 3 ToggleLink Switches to be used in a 4-way light switch situation (3 switches controlling one light from 3 different locations). After trying everything that I could think of (Reset the PLM, Reboot the ISY, set each switch back to factory settings, etc.) I am at an impasse. Despite everything that I have tried, when I try to add each of these switches, the result is the same – “Cannot determine Insteon Engine”. I have level 3 device communication events for each of the 3 switches. I would welcome any suggestions. Here are the logs:
LeeG Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Togglelincs are powerline only, no Dual Band. Device 2C.3A.C1 is not sending a response as though it is not receiving the commands. What devices are being used to couple the two 120v legs? Are the ToggleLincs on the same or opposite 120v leg as the PLM? Note that after resetting the PLM a File | Restore Modem (PLM) is required. Edited March 5, 2015 by LeeG
WayneUrso Posted March 5, 2015 Author Posted March 5, 2015 Thank you very much for getting back to me, Lee. I am using an Insteon 2406H Hard Wired Phase Coupler for bridging the two legs. I suspect that two of the ToggleLincs are on the same Leg s the PLM. The reason why I say this is that when I do a 'Start Linking' command from the controller software, the ISY994 recognizes 2 of the 3 ToggleLincs and never notices the 2C 3A C1 Toggle Link. Although two are seen during the Link Up process, they never complete due to "Cannot Determine Insteon Engine". For the 2C 3A C1 Toggle Link, I simply try to add a new Insteon Device by typing in the Insteon Address, but ultimately fail to add the device for the same reason as the other two that fail. I did do a restore Modem (PLM) after unplugging it and replugging it in. Thanks again, Lee. --Wayne
LeeG Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 The file for 2C.39.F1 has a trace for 2C.3A.F1 device. Not sure if the file is mislabeled or the wrong device address was used. 2C.3A.F1 did not respond.The file for 2C.3A.BD shows it took 5 seconds for the device to generate a response. The ISY considered that as no response and retried the command two more times with no response. It suggests there is enough noise on the powerline to delay the device response or not allow a response. Thu 03/05/2015 09:21:30 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 2C 3A BD 0F 10 00Thu 03/05/2015 09:21:30 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 2C.3A.BD 0F 10 00 06 ID-REQ (00)Thu 03/05/2015 09:21:31 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2C.3A.BD 2F.B9.DB 2B 10 00 ID-REQ (00)Thu 03/05/2015 09:21:31 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 2C.3A.BD-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2Thu 03/05/2015 09:21:36 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2C.3A.BD 02.1A.41 8B 01 61 (61)Thu 03/05/2015 09:21:36 AM : [std-Broadcast] 2C.3A.BD-->02.1A.41, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2Thu 03/05/2015 09:21:40 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 2C 3A BD 0F 10 00Thu 03/05/2015 09:21:40 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 2C.3A.BD 0F 10 00 06 ID-REQ (00)Thu 03/05/2015 09:21:40 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2C.3A.BD 2F.B9.DB 2B 10 00 ID-REQ (00)Thu 03/05/2015 09:21:40 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 2C.3A.BD-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2Thu 03/05/2015 09:21:49 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 2C 3A BD 0F 10 00Thu 03/05/2015 09:21:49 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 2C.3A.BD 0F 10 00 06 ID-REQ (00)Thu 03/05/2015 09:21:49 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2C.3A.BD 2F.B9.DB 2B 10 00 ID-REQ (00)Thu 03/05/2015 09:21:49 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 2C.3A.BD-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2Thu 03/05/2015 09:21:53 AM : [2C 3A BD 0 ] Cannot determine device typeThu 03/05/2015 09:21:53 AM : [2C 3A BD 0 ] Failed to add device, reason 2Thu 03/05/2015 09:21:53 AM : [All ] Writing 0 bytes to devices The trace file for 2C.3A.C1 shows no response from that Insteon address. I suggest using a pair of Range Extenders for coupling. The 2406H is a passive coupler. A signal that is reduced by the time it reaches the power panel will be placed on the other 120v leg in its reduced signal level
Teken Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 If you want to really add it and worry about the coupling later. Just wire it to an extension cord on the same leg as the PLM. Once it enrolls successfully you can take on the coupling / bridging. NOTE: Once you have enrolled the toggle linc expect unreliable command and control from scenes / programs until the above is solved.
stusviews Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 ToggleLincs are powerline only. If they're all on the same circuit, then that implies that there's something interfering with the signal on that circuit. A handy tool is a 2-wire extension cord cut in half and wired to power the device and connect a load. Use that to test a ToggleLinc with the extension cord plugged in near the PLM and a lamp at the other end. If that works, then you'll need to find to cause of the interference. BTW, on a 20wire extension cord, the neutral (wide blade) side has a rib, the line side is smooth.
LeeG Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 See this link for actual discussion of this situation. This in one of three duplicates http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/15598-cannot-determine-insteon-engine/
WayneUrso Posted March 5, 2015 Author Posted March 5, 2015 Thanks very much for the excellent suggestions. I have just ordered 2 range extenders in the hopes that they fix the problem. I will certainly let you know if this fixes the situation, or if I am still experiencing problems.
LeeG Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 What type of load is being controlled from the ToggleLinc (LED, CFL, incandescent) What types of load are being controlled by other Insteon devices? Is the PLM isolated from other devices on the same circuit that may be generating interference (UPS, surge/noise suppression power strip, etc)?
WayneUrso Posted March 6, 2015 Author Posted March 6, 2015 Thank you everyone for terrific support! The load is simply 1 light fixture that has two 60 watt equivalent CFL bulbs in it. I thought about possible noise in the line from those CFL's, and swapped them out for incandescent just to try something different. No change in results. That being said, the whole house is filled with both LED light bulbs, and also CFL bulbs with virtually no incandescents. Also, my home is within a 1/4 mile of the end of the electrical line as I live in a wilderness area. Drive 1/4 mile down the road, and there isn't any electricity to be found for several miles. I know that the home routinely gets hit with spikes and brownouts since it's such a rural area. Consequently there is a whole house surge protector wired into the service panel. The PLM is on a power strip located in my office, but there is nothing isolating it from the rest of the electrical system on it's hot leg. I should add that I have successfully used the very same ToggleLinc's in two other areas of the same home, and those two work reliably.
WayneUrso Posted March 10, 2015 Author Posted March 10, 2015 Well the Range Extenders did the trick. Everything is now working reliably. Thank you everyone who assisted.
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