A/C Shutoff When Windows/Doors Open

[amlucia]

Hi,

 

I am about to purchase the ISY-994i, what I am trying to accomplish is shutting off the AC, no heat pump, just typical residential AC and electric heat, (new installed system, 5 wire etc) system when the windows or doors are opened.

 

Can someone recommend which version of the ISY I need and two compatible thermostats other than the insteon version? I am familiar with the door sensor I need.

 

Thank you!

Edited March 26, 2015 by amlucia

[stusviews]

An important concern is programming the door sensors. You don't want the compressor to cycle every time someone enters or leaves, so you'll need to include a delay. But, that can wait for now.

 

Virtually every thermostat is compatible with residential AC systems. If you use the same thermostat(s) for both and you don't want Insteon, then either a Z-Wave or ZigBee thermostat will work. Which ISY you select then depends on which protocol thermostat you select. If you have separate thermostats for cooling and heating, then there is more to consider.

 

Which particular thermostats are currently installed?

Edited March 27, 2015 by stusviews

[amlucia]

An important concern is programming the door sensors. You don't want the compressor to cycle every time someone enters or leaves, so you'll need to include a delay. But, that can wait for now.

 

Virtually every thermostat is compatible with residential AC systems. If you use the same thermostat(s) for both and you don't want Insteon, then either a Z-Wave or ZigBee thermostat will work. Which ISY you select then depends on which protocol thermostat you select. If you have separate thermostats for cooling and heating, then there is more to consider.

 

Which particular thermostats are currently installed?

Thank you,

 

The HVAC unit is new, not installed yet (new house being built) so I have my options open, I really would like to go with something reliable and easy. I wouldn't mind using the Insteon thermostat, but the others seemed to look nicer and have more features (not that I need them). I do not have thermostats yet.  

 

I just want to shut the A/C down when people leave windows and doors open.  I would prefer one thermostat that controls both heating and cooling. Also I would like to access the ISY remotely. The property is a vacation rental and I live out of state from it. Thank you again.

[stusviews]

Because you will have electric heat, you'll need to know the specifics about the thermostat(s) first. That's because "standard" thermostats are designed to control 24VAC circuits and electric heat uses line power. Your HVAC contractor is the person to contact.

Edited March 27, 2015 by stusviews

[amlucia]

Because you will have electric heat, you'll need to know the specifics about the thermostat(s) first. That's because "standard" thermostats are designed to control 24VAC circuits and electric heat uses line power. Your HVAC contractor is the person to contact.

Ok. thanks, I will research that. Might be a week or two before I get….thx again

[apostolakisl]

If you say "5 wire" and you are talking about a 5 conductor low voltage wire all sheaved together in a single jacket, and it is controlling your heating and cooling, then you do not have line voltage going to your thermostat and most any thermostat will do the trick.  

[amlucia]

If you say "5 wire" and you are talking about a 5 conductor low voltage wire all sheaved together in a single jacket, and it is controlling your heating and cooling, then you do not have line voltage going to your thermostat and most any thermostat will do the trick.  

I maybe in error….I do not know the system they are putting in, I just assumed since it was a new system it would be a 5 wire….but there is no natural gas where I am, so it is an electric heat system, that I do know, some folks said it they use zwave to accomplish this, so I don't know at this point. thank u

[apostolakisl]

Are you sure you don't have a heat pump?  It is rare to put in regular resistance electric heat since it is such an expensive way to make heat.  You usually only see that where it almost is never cold enough to need heat.

[amlucia]

Are you sure you don't have a heat pump?  It is rare to put in regular resistance electric heat since it is such an expensive way to make heat.  You usually only see that where it almost is never cold enough to need heat.

That I don't know, I will have separate system on each floor, 2 thermostats, that I know….assuming I have a heat pump, what thermostats and systems should I start looking at until I find out?

[Teken]

That I don't know, I will have separate system on each floor, 2 thermostats, that I know….assuming I have a heat pump, what thermostats and systems should I start looking at until I find out?

I think before you get too far ahead with the whole TSTAT. You really should engage the HVAC installer and confirm you haven't locked yourself into a proprietary system.

 

Many of the Crane, Lennox, Carrier, York systems depending on model of AC use a bus system.

 

Ask them before you waste anymore time in this endeavor.

 

 

Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

[apostolakisl]

I think before you get too far ahead with the whole TSTAT. You really should engage the HVAC installer and confirm you haven't locked yourself into a proprietary system.

 

Many of the Crane, Lennox, Carrier, York systems depending on model of AC use a bus system.

 

Ask them before you waste anymore time in this endeavor.

 

 

Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

 

Good Point.  Although, speaking at least for Carrier, you don't have to use their proprietary bus.  I have one of those carrier systems and you can install a conventional thermostat.  However, you lose the ability to run the diagnostic and configuration tools from a thermostat.  For whatever that is worth.

[apostolakisl]

That I don't know, I will have separate system on each floor, 2 thermostats, that I know….assuming I have a heat pump, what thermostats and systems should I start looking at until I find out?

 

That is common.  As Teken said, you really just need to ask your hvac guy what it is your are installing before you can get much further.

[Teken]

Good Point. Although, speaking at least for Carrier, you don't have to use their proprietary bus. I have one of those carrier systems and you can install a conventional thermostat. However, you lose the ability to run the diagnostic and configuration tools from a thermostat. For whatever that is worth.

For the diagnostic & configuration tool what do they do exactly? I believe when I first looked at similar units the diagnostic simply allowed some kind of health check.

 

One was like check the filter which seems pretty basic, no? Another system did a POST of sorts where it measures that all key board, motors, pump, etc were within voltage, RPM, temperature specs.

 

That would appeal to me more. But find the reality is the more electronics in the system the more failure points and potential costs down the line.

 

I've made it my mantra in 2015 to find the most advanced, robust, and efficient devices which are as dumb as possible in terms of how they are made and designed for long term use.

 

Seen too many situations where homes are unusable due to over complexity in their endeavor to automate all.

 

 

 

 

Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

[Teken]

OMFG what happen to my reply?

 

 

Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

[paulbates]

Good Point.  Although, speaking at least for Carrier, you don't have to use their proprietary bus.  I have one of those carrier systems and you can install a conventional thermostat.  However, you lose the ability to run the diagnostic and configuration tools from a thermostat.  For whatever that is worth.

 

Agreed. I have 2 new carriers, and my assessment of their proprietary system on my model is that there is not much to the proprietary side. I looked at the Carrier stats and a number of others and could not justify the expense in my case for the functionality I wanted, in fact some stats offer more functionality for less.

 

Per other comments I worked this out in detail and consulted the HVAC installer several times before signing the agreement. I looked at the furnace manual and wrote up a powerpoint wiring diagram for the installer so that we were in agreement on how it would installed. We agreed on pulling an 8 wire bundle out of which 7 were used: 2 for each heat stage, 1 cool, fan, humidifier, common plus red to power the thermostat.

 

Some Thermostats use batteries, some use furnace power. I really recommend having the HVAC vendor pull the wiring to the stat and installing enough wires for  what you need, plus an additional one or two for growth. Running those wires should be a one time experience

Edited March 27, 2015 by paulbates

[Teken]

Agreed. I have 2 new carriers, and my assessment of their system on my model is that there is not much to the proprietary side. I looked at their stats and a number of others and could not justify the expense in my case for the functionality I wanted, in fact some stats offer more functionality for less.

 

Per other comments I worked this out in detail and consulted the HVAC installer several times before signing the agreement. I looked at the furnace manual and wrote up a powerpoint wiring diagram for the installer so that we were in agreement on how it would installed. We agreed on pulling an 8 wire bundle out of which 7 were used: 2 for each heat stage, 1 cool, fan, humidifier, common plus red to power the thermostat.

 

Some Thermostats use batteries, some use furnace power. I really recommend having the HVAC vendor pull the wiring to the stat and installing enough wires for  what you need, plus an additional one or two for growth. Running those wires should be a one time experience

 

Paul,

 

What exactly did you get with their bus system? I also agree pull more wires for future proofing because the cost wont change besides the wire.

 

Trying to pull new wires after a house is built is simply a bear and you don't want to be doing that a year down the line. I would also pull a CAT5e / CAT6 to the location for future considerations. 

[paulbates]

Teken, The more advanced model has advanced zone control, which some might need. If its a new house and the HVAC installer has a multizone plan, it would be worth discussing Carrier's thermostat. My setup requires two furnaces (without major surgery to the house) so the zoning wasn't needed.

 

It provides zone and other statistics at the stat. Not sure those go through to a cloud app like the venstar colortouch, but I don't really want to go to the thermostat for data points.

 

Carrier's thermostat also automatically manages fan speed. But on both my units, anything above the slowest speed is noticeable. I have it set to the slowest speed and keep it there. With 2 stage, the purpose is to run the unit longer cycles, which means adjusting air temperature while keeping the fan speed down. To keep the air clean, I have an ISY program that manually cycles the fan after an hour of no other HVAC activity. I have HEPA 13 filters and running the program keeps the allergens and dust down.

 

Other features like schedule programming, humidity control, automatic fan for air cycling, energy / run time tracking, filter reminders, smart phone apps, home automation integration, etc, are available in other thermostats.

 

Agreed on running a cat 6 "while you're at it". Chances are they will be wireless, but its not any harder to pull 2 wires to a location than one.

Edited March 27, 2015 by paulbates

[hart2hart]

If standard Tstat then venstar T5800 is great. It is controlled via Wifi. Today They work with standard ISY but require VenLink software listed in forum under 3rd party section running on RPi or a PC. I have 3 and can only say great things.

[apostolakisl]

OK, so I can do things like

 

1) change the outside temp trigger for going to stage 2

2) check fault codes

3) check run times at high cool/low cool/high heat/low heat

4) enroll new devices in the system (like a heat recovery ventilator)

5) run diagnostic tests

6) read pressures in the plenum and stuff

7) see the temp at the condenser unit

 

And some other stuff that my brain storming isn't remembering right now.  Most of that stuff is actually hidden from the regular user, but I figured out the trick to get into all of that stuff.

 

Still, it is almost useless to have access to any of that stuff.

Edited March 28, 2015 by apostolakisl

[Teken]

Teken, The more advanced model has advanced zone control, which some might need. If its a new house and the HVAC installer has a multizone plan, it would be worth discussing Carrier's thermostat. My setup requires two furnaces (without major surgery to the house) so the zoning wasn't needed.

 

It provides zone and other statistics at the stat. Not sure those go through to a cloud app like the venstar colortouch, but I don't really want to go to the thermostat for data points.

 

Carrier's thermostat also automatically manages fan speed. But on both my units, anything above the slowest speed is noticeable. I have it set to the slowest speed and keep it there. With 2 stage, the purpose is to run the unit longer cycles, which means adjusting air temperature while keeping the fan speed down. To keep the air clean, I have an ISY program that manually cycles the fan after an hour of no other HVAC activity. I have HEPA 13 filters and running the program keeps the allergens and dust down.

 

Other features like schedule programming, humidity control, automatic fan for air cycling, energy / run time tracking, filter reminders, smart phone apps, home automation integration, etc, are available in other thermostats.

 

Agreed on running a cat 6 "while you're at it". Chances are they will be wireless, but its not any harder to pull 2 wires to a location than one.

 

 

OK, so I can do things like

 

1) change the outside temp trigger for going to stage 2

2) check fault codes

3) check run times at high cool/low cool/high heat/low heat

4) enroll new devices in the system (like a heat recovery ventilator)

5) run diagnostic tests

6) read pressures in the plenum and stuff

7) see the temp at the condenser unit

 

And some other stuff that my brain storming isn't remembering right now.  Most of that stuff is actually hidden from the regular user, but I figured out the trick to get into all of that stuff.

 

Still, it is almost useless to have access to any of that stuff.

 

Thanks for taking the time to let us all know what possible features and enhancements comes with the premium bus protocols etc. I agree some aspects perhaps in the advanced section may never really be used or realized by the end user. But, some others offer tremendous insight and operations of the HVAC system.

 

I know most of us fall into the 2% of the general public who really want to know. Because the reality is 99% of the general public just want it to operate and don't really care how it does it. So long as the house is hot / cool no one really cares in the big picture.

 

For some of us we like to tinker and be a little more interactive with our sub systems. Perhaps its because we have been limited our entire life in different areas who knows!

 

But, I must affirm my views again sometimes things should just be simple and rock solid. The countless millions of homes impacted by a slight surge / spike that takes out a AC / Furnace, HWT, etc. In my mind is asinine and absolutely unacceptable on any level.

 

Our reliance on making everything so digital with out any for thought about long term service life and reliability is truly astounding on ever level. In 2015 with proven manufacturing techniques and processes in place there is no reason something can't operate and last forever.

 

In my real world definition *Forever* is 25 years. If a product makes it to 10 years I will give them a pass. If they can't even make 5 years its a POS in my view and books. The reality is the general public has forced and made every vendor to produce on the lowest dollar and hence why cheap parts rated to last one year is prevalent.

 

This is why as high tech as I am in my life, home, and environment. I always balance that high tech with dumb! If I find something that simply just operates and is low on energy, offers features, and has possible expandability and operates in the North Pole weather.

 

I buy 2-3-4 of them . . .

 

I believe what shocks a lot of folks who engage me directly about certain aspects of my home and its HVAC or other electrical components. They are shocked to find out some systems are not automated or tied to any HA systems. This is because in my eyes too much potential for failure and opportunity for security breach.

 

Never mind the predictable costs down the road to replace such complex components.

[amlucia]

Thanks to everyone for their response, I am being told by my contractor that he believes that it will be a Carrier brand system, however, he is getting back to me on make and model and if it is a heat pump.

 

In the mean time, is there an ISY controller I can buy to start learning how to program…etc

[stusviews]

There are several ISY models available. Each can later be updated to a model with more features (e.g, Pro, Z-Wave, etc.). If your budget permits, I suggest going with the Pro model.

[Scyto]

Folks on the thread with carrier, a question.

 

I have a carrier two stage gas furnace,a carrier damper control and a carrier non-communicating AC unit and the infinity touch wifi thermostat. 

The only thing I can see that I would loose if I switched to a Honeywell damper control and generic z-wave thermostat (e.g. nest, ecobee etc) is the static pressure check and a few diagnostics that only matter to the technician.

 

Is there any *meaningful* reason for me to not get rid of the proprietary bus?

 

(PS currently I am trying to see if I can use infinitude to control the system or maybe use the RS232 bus on the SAM module - though that will cost me ~$1000 to purchase.....)

Edited March 28, 2015 by Scyto

[stusviews]

I'm using a Carrier two stage compressor and single stage gas furnace with a Honeywell TotalZone panel and Insteon thermostats.

[apostolakisl]

Folks on the thread with carrier, a question.

 

I have a carrier two stage gas furnace,a carrier damper control and a carrier non-communicating AC unit and the infinity touch wifi thermostat. 

The only thing I can see that I would loose if I switched to a Honeywell damper control and generic z-wave thermostat (e.g. nest, ecobee etc) is the static pressure check and a few diagnostics that only matter to the technician.

 

Is there any *meaningful* reason for me to not get rid of the proprietary bus?

 

(PS currently I am trying to see if I can use infinitude to control the system or maybe use the RS232 bus on the SAM module - though that will cost me ~$1000 to purchase.....)

 

 

I agree.  You pretty much only lose stuff that a technician would care about.  You could always keep your carrier thermostat and mount next to the unit itself and switch over to it when and if the need arises for those diagnostic and configuration features.  Maybe once a year or something I access my system logs and stuff for curiosity sake.  And that is about all the good it does me.