Jimbo.Automates Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Is there another open protocol for devices to communicate with each other like this? And yes, I didn't say it is a big deal, only that it could be. It would be great for UDI to look into becoming weave certified. Link to comment
G W Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 This is exactly why the mass has no freaking clue what to buy, adopt, or deploy. Everybody wants to control the HA industry with their ideal protocol. I trust google as far as I can lift a 600lbs phat man over my head. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent You seem to be very angry about home automation. Link to comment
Teken Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Is there another open protocol for devices to communicate with each other like this? And yes, I didn't say it is a big deal, only that it could be. It would be great for UDI to look into becoming weave certified. The reality is Google offers these free and new ideas for only one goal. That is to track, monitor, and monetize your data. Jimbo, my comments are not directed toward you at all just so you know. I simply do not trust this company at all. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent Link to comment
Teken Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 You seem to be very angry about home automation. No, I love HA and enjoy each and every day what it brings me. What I refuse to use, allow, and reward others is offering a product / service in the guise of helping the masses. Anyone who believes this to be true has no clue about Googles end goal. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent Link to comment
Jimbo.Automates Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 The reality is Google offers these free and new ideas for only one goal. That is to track, monitor, and monetize your data. Jimbo, my comments are not directed toward you at all just so you know. I simply do not trust this company at all. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent No worries, I didn't take it that way. We know what you think of Google I was truly wondering if there was something like this already, maybe in openhab. Link to comment
G W Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 No, I love HA and enjoy each and every day what it brings me. What I refuse to use, allow, and reward others is offering a product / service in the guise of helping the masses. Anyone who believes this to be true has no clue about Googles end goal. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent It's not just Google. You rant against Smartphone and many others. Maybe you need some happy pills. Something has you upset a lot. Link to comment
Teken Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 It's not just Google. You rant against Smartphone and many others. Maybe you need some happy pills. Something has you upset a lot. Expressing ones view about bad policy, services, products, is a hall mark of free speech. I would think you would appreciate that. At the end of the day I am not a sheep like the millions around me. When I am asked to express my thoughts, ideas, and views I do. It's up to people to either read it, or ignore it. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent Link to comment
G W Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Yes, but you can do it in an idealy peaceful and non violent way. Link to comment
Teken Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 No worries, I didn't take it that way. We know what you think of Google I was truly wondering if there was something like this already, maybe in openhab.As I have expressed many times let everyone come and play in the sandbox. Offer your idea of the perfect protocol, standard, what have you. This is what Samsung, Apple, Google are all trying to do I get this. What annoys me to no end is that lots of this could have been pushed forward ten years ago. The HA landscape would have been a much better place. Unified, universal, and readily available to all with a plug & play approach. Yet Google for example has proven to be able to introduce products & services that are half baked or killed off with out any consideration to those who have invested so much. One only needs to (ironically) Google all the services and products they abandoned after disrupting the entire market place. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent Link to comment
Teken Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Yes, but you can do it in an idealy peaceful and non violent way. Come again? Ideals are peaceful - History is violent Link to comment
G W Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Come again? Ideals are peaceful - History is violent Thank you, but no. Link to comment
Teken Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Thank you, but no. OK . . . Ideals are peaceful - History is violent Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Hi all, We cannot use Brillo or Weave because : 1. It's Android based 2. To Teken's point, if you look at their charts there are 3 main components in the architecture one of which is prominently marked "Cloud". Not that we are anti-cloud but it just seems a little privacey-intrusive All this said, we'll continue our conservative wait and see approach. I'm sure there will still be room for a local brain not in the cloud! With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
G W Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Hi all, We cannot use Brillo or Weave because : 1. It's Android based 2. To Teken's point, if you look at their charts there are 3 main components in the architecture one of which is prominently marked "Cloud". Not that we are anti-cloud but it just seems a little privacey-intrusive All this said, we'll continue our conservative wait and see approach. I'm sure there will still be room for a local brain not in the cloud! With kind regards, Michel I agree about off-premise web services, or what marketing has named "cloud services." This should be secondary and optional. Android based or not, if the code cannot be ported to other than Android, then I have no use for it. That's as bad as iOS only code. Link to comment
Jimbo.Automates Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Yes, brillo is Android, of course. But weave is not tied to a platform, or the cloud, I'm pretty sure that was specifically mentioned in the presentation. It sounds very similar to node definitions in the 5 firmware. Link to comment
lyxicon Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Yes, brillo is Android, of course. But weave is not tied to a platform, or the cloud, I'm pretty sure that was specifically mentioned in the presentation. It sounds very similar to node definitions in the 5 firmware. And also very similiar to AllJoyn, except that AllJoyn is backed by a lot of heavyweights (Qualcomm, Microsoft, ...) Link to comment
Teken Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 And also very similiar to AllJoyn, except that AllJoyn is backed by a lot of heavyweights (Qualcomm, Microsoft, ...) This is exactly what should happen. All of the big players should come together as one and unify behind one standard. One only needs to see how the USB, HDMI, for example helped standardize the market place. And boom it took off and the rest is history! With the advent of USB C it will be even better. At the end of the day HA had its own quirks and random issues. But now we are going to experience a full on gong show of people enter and leave the market place with standards which nobody knows how long will be supported or adopted. I honestly thought we were in a better place 6 months ago with the whole Apple Home Kit. But now it looks like Pandora's box is open and every Tom, Dick, and Harry wants to go down their own path?!?!? As Paul B and I have said its best to sit on the fence and watch. Being a early adopter at this point is going to cost you not only money but frustrations with no guarantee on future support or availability of said products. The next 18 months will prove to be very interesting for many of us and that of HA in general. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Hi Jimbo, thanks for the correction which makes this a little easier to digest. Hi lyxicon, the only problem I have with AllJoyn is that its mode of operation is a software component which depends on DBus. I had a chat with them a while back asking them how we can port this framework to our own platform. The bottom line was: 1. ISY cannot be a router because it would be very difficult to port all their services without having either Java (which we don't have), Linux (which we are not), or Windows (which we are not) 2. ISY can be a thin client but, even then, we have to use a library which again goes back to #1. It was recommended that we use a Javascript interpreter since they have a thin client for Javascript. This means that we will have to compile a Javascript interpreter into ISY Due to the above, we decided to leave AllJoyn for 5.0 and which will run in a Node Server. So, from the looks of it, Weave might be a little easier for us. Hi Teken, I love your idea of a universal/standardized mode of communications for all sorts of devices. This said, I am not very hopeful. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
Teken Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Hi Teken, I love your idea of a universal/standardized mode of communications for all sorts of devices. This said, I am not very hopeful. With kind regards, Michel That's because we are both pragmatic and realist! It was never my intent to sound too cynical or negative about the above technologies and independent endeavors. I, along with many fully understand this is how the market grows and thus opens new ideas and opportunities to the masses. There are countless examples where the Government forced business to comply with standards and practices not (at the time very popular) but as time went on it was proven out it was the best thing that ever happen to the different markets / industries. Having said this, my stance does not change about some of these companies because history, court proceedings, law suites, from across the globe has validated my thoughts, concerns, and idea's that some of these companies do not have our personal interest at heart. I know there have been a few heated discussions in this forum about UDI not being too fast, forward thinking, adopting each widget that comes to market. I like the many others actually like this slow and watch approach because you have indicated in the past UDI could have ended in several scenario's from bust to boom! UDI didn't get where they are today simply being a sheep and running with the rest of the blind fools. Its very apparent in the next two years decisions made now will impact UDI and the rest of the HA world as we know it. I will simply affirm that your approach is tried and true and the bulk of the membership support this business direction. Now, lets get pushing the 995 Series Controller! Ha . . . Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Hi Teken, Thank you. I mostly agree with you with a minor comment: all companies are free to do whatever they like (including not having our interest at heart) and all consumers are free to choose whatever they like (including products from companies who do not have their interest at heart). I see no problem whatsoever with either and would certainly not call anyone a sheep for choosing one and not the other since, unlike absolute truths, this one is pretty much subjective. Liberty is the ultimate state! Well, except for devices that ISY orchestrates ... we don't want any liberty for those! As far as ISY995, internally, we have thought about this for a long time going back and forth between be-it-all, end-it-all, for-everyone-and-everything and most-powerful vs. ISY being a powerful brain (I like the word Neuro!) orchestrating things on the network. Based on the outcome of our 5.0 endeavors, we'll decide which way to go. Thanks again and with kind regards, Michel Link to comment
Jimbo.Automates Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 They have announced the first device to support it http://www.slashgear.com/google-onhub-will-be-the-first-brillo-device-for-google-on-18398100/ http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2015/08/meet-onhub-new-router-for-new-way-to-wi.html Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk Link to comment
paulbates Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 I saw that today too here: http://nextmarket.co/blogs/smarthomeweekly/41122689-why-the-onhub-is-googles-nexus-one-for-routers-and-why-its-all-about-brillo Link to comment
Teken Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 They have announced the first device to support it http://www.slashgear.com/google-onhub-will-be-the-first-brillo-device-for-google-on-18398100/ http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2015/08/meet-onhub-new-router-for-new-way-to-wi.html Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk I saw that today too here: http://nextmarket.co/blogs/smarthomeweekly/41122689-why-the-onhub-is-googles-nexus-one-for-routers-and-why-its-all-about-brillo Both were a good read and summary of their over all goals etc. Interesting to see their router mimics so many other round routers out now or the Amazon Echo? People really need to stop and think how much Google is natively linked to your home. In another related thread I already outlined why Google is the coming of SkyNET. Do people truly believe having their router that manages all aspect of their communications is the right thing to do?? People need to smell the freaking coffee here this will not end well for the stupid. Consider these facts: They are the most used web browser, mail service, cell phone OS, embedded systems. They are in command and control of a ever growing high speed ISP network. They own and operate a military robotics company and have direct access to one of the most powerful satellites that scan and monitor the Earth. They have computers being sold using their Chrome operating system along with deploying next generation POCO power for grid solutions. They are in bed with the American Government in relaying all your e-mail via the PRISM program which Snowden has made public. They continue to fund R&D for remote controlled weather balloon Internet access. They have the technology to drive around and capture all WiFi signals even those encrypted from their roaming street view mapping services. They can identify, match, and collate your face, voice, sound, image . . . They are able to tell if you're home based on your TSTAT (NEST) , (Protect) Smoke Detector, and camera's. Those who literally leave the last door open to this company which has complete access, control, and management of your network are truly in for a rude awakening. Life is all about choices and people are free to choose what suites them. But, people really need to grab a freaking brain and stop and smell whats brewing. Link to comment
paulbates Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 Yes, I think about that too. A couple of things that are true 1) Its embedded android. They have a good system foundation; interfaces and apps. However, it sounds shallow right now from an HA capability perspective. 2) Its not a substitute for the ISY's flexibility. There are years of experience that just won't show up overnight. I imagine this device behaving like Frontpoint, an alarm system that does basic zwave home automation quickly and easily. But limited in what it can integrate with and no custom programming environment. Somewhere, Ease of use and Flexibility have to meet. We'll have to keep watching to see where and when. Link to comment
Teken Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Yes, I think about that too. A couple of things that are true 1) Its embedded android. They have a good system foundation; interfaces and apps. However, it sounds shallow right now from an HA capability perspective. 2) Its not a substitute for the ISY's flexibility. There are years of experience that just won't show up overnight. I imagine this device behaving like Frontpoint, an alarm system that does basic zwave home automation quickly and easily. But limited in what it can integrate with and no custom programming environment. Somewhere, Ease of use and Flexibility have to meet. We'll have to keep watching to see where and when. In the one article I will concede that it will help drive the market leaders like Asus, D-Link, Netgear, Cisco / Linksys, etc. To expand past their current platform and extend that capability into the HA space. So long as they decide to adopt existing standards which are free of prying eyes of EVIL Google. Integrate Z-Wave, Zigbee, Insteon, X-10, incorporate AllJoyn I don't care. Just don't embed the device with Android spyware that will ultimately compromise your life and safety. Link to comment
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