Open/close sensor & 2466 toggle relay switch problem

[curmudgeon]

For well over a year I have been using an Insteon open/close 

sensor 2843 with 3 doors on my garage, each door with a magnet and switch. It's 

worked fine for that time; open any door and the garage lights come on; close ALL 

3 doors and the lights go off.

 

Recently it began working in only 1 direction - open any door and the 

lights go on, but closing all doors and the lights no longer go off.

 

What I see, when all 3 are closed is the green led on the open/close 

controller blinking rapidly for perhaps 30 seconds. Then it goes off, but 

the lights remain on.

 

There have no changes in sensors or wiring. So believing the open/close 

controller had failed, I purchased a new one.

Same result.

 

I swapped out the 2466 light switch with another.  Also no help.

 

The insteon toggle relay switch 2466  seems OK; it responds correctly when I use 

the mini-remote or commands from my ISY controller.

 

I removed the 2466 from the ISY control, then reset it to factory, then relinked it to the 2843.  It worked intermittently for a day or so, then no response at all.   But I still get the 30 seconds of rapid  LED flashing when any of the doors are opened or closed.  Can find no mention of what that might signify.

 

There is also a 2443 access point in the garage,  but I doubt if it's involved in the problem.

 

I'm at a loss.  Can't think of anything else to try.  My only other thought is that maybe something else in the garage is interfering with the communication between the open/close sensor and the light switch. (they're only about 10-12 feet apart)

 

Anyone else have a suggestion????

 

[LeeG]

The rapid flashing of the Open Close Sensor LED indicates a comm problem.  The Open Close Sensor is not receiving a response from at least one of the responders.  There must be some Program logic involved that is checking that all doors are closed before sending Off to 2466?   The Open Close Sensor is set for two Scenes so only On commands are issued with the ISY/PLM sending the Off command when the last door closes??

[Teken]

What is the (bulb) load? If they are not regular incandescent like CFL / LED / Florescent etc. Remove all of them and replace it with a regular bulbs are report back.

 

Often times when a unit can turn something on but not off this is a load issue. Be it a noise maker / signal sucker etc.

[Techman]

In addition to checking on your light bulbs you might want to try removing power from door openers then adding them back one at a time to eliminate the openers as a source of the problem. Have you recently plugged anything new into the same circuit that the openers are on?

[curmudgeon]

I think I've found the problem.

I spent yesterday unplugging everything in the garage.  BTW, the lighting load is all fluorescents,  most hard-wired, but with 4 plug in shop lights over the work benches. 

This morning I cleared the switch back to factory settings and relinked the open/close sensor.   Then started plugging things back in.

A new replacement shop light when turned on caused the rest of the garage lights to go off.

Unplugging it and opening a walk in door caused the lights to all go on and from then on function correctly when the door was closed and opened.

Something in that new shop light was blocking the signal.

When I had an X-10 set up there was a plug-in filter you could use that would filter out noise.  Anything like that exist for Insteon that might allow me to still use this shop light?

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

BTW LeeG, the ISY plays no part in this setup.  The open/close sensor is set with a jumper to connect to a single responder and the mag switches on the doors are hard wired to the terminals on the open close sensor.  No program involved.

[Teken]

I think I've found the problem.

I spent yesterday unplugging everything in the garage.  BTW, the lighting load is all fluorescents,  most hard-wired, but with 4 plug in shop lights over the work benches. 

This morning I cleared the switch back to factory settings and relinked the open/close sensor.   Then started plugging things back in.

A new replacement shop light when turned on caused the rest of the garage lights to go off.

Unplugging it and opening a walk in door caused the lights to all go on and from then on function correctly when the door was closed and opened.

Something in that new shop light was blocking the signal.

When I had an X-10 set up there was a plug-in filter you could use that would filter out noise.  Anything like that exist for Insteon that might allow me to still use this shop light?

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

BTW LeeG, the ISY plays no part in this setup.  The open/close sensor is set with a jumper to connect to a single responder and the mag switches on the doors are hard wired to the terminals on the open close sensor.  No program involved.

 

Glad you found the culprit.

 

Here is a hardwired filter which many have found to work very well: http://www.smarthome.com/x10-xpf-20a-3-wire-x10-noise-filter.html

 

Please shop around as this filter can be found cheaper on line etc. I just wanted to offer you a solution so you could get on and do more searching for the unit.

 

On sale here: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/XPF-20A-Wired-In-Noise-Filter-X10-PRO-/150440793381

 

I don't recall the current rating on this unit but many have indicated it works also: http://www.amazon.com/X10-In-Line-Noise-Reducer-XPNR/dp/B0002M5OIY/ref=pd_sim_60_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=09CDAGPXSPB878345632

[Brian H]

The X10 filters also are used with Insteon.

 

The X10Pro XPPF is what you are thinking of. It is NOT the best choice with things having electronic ballasts that may have repetitive peek power current  spikes. Also the 5 amp rating was a stretch. Push them to near 5 amps and the coils in them started to overheat.

 

The Insteon FilterLinc is a ten amp one and the ACT AF120 is a fifteen amp one.

 

The wired in 20 amp one Teken linked to would be fine if you where doing a wired setup.

[curmudgeon]

The X10 filters also are used with Insteon.

 

The X10Pro XPPF is what you are thinking of. It is NOT the best choice with things having electronic ballasts that may have repetitive peek power current  spikes. Also the 5 amp rating was a stretch. Push them to near 5 amps and the coils in them started to overheat.

 

The Insteon FilterLinc is a ten amp one and the ACT AF120 is a fifteen amp one.

 

The wired in 20 amp one Teken linked to would be fine if you where doing a wired setup.

Since we're talking about a 32 watt fixture as the source of the problem and that is roughly 1/4 amp,  I think a 5 amp filter would be way more than adequate, don't you?

[Teken]

Since we're talking about a 32 watt fixture as the source of the problem and that is roughly 1/4 amp,  I think a 5 amp filter would be way more than adequate, don't you?

 

More than fine so long as you don't plan on adding anymore load that might exceed that ampacity rating.

[Brian H]

A single 32 watt light should be OK.

 

Just your 1/4 amp calculation maybe low.

Most modern Electronic Ballasts. Have Peek In Rush and Repetitive Currents that have to be taken into consideration. We had a X10 user that measured their fluorescent light with a standard meter and had a load of 2 amps. The XPPF filters caught on fire due to the short but much higher currents the electronic ballasts where causing.