SetMonkey13 Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 So I've had a problem recently where one of my programs fails at night, and its only a couple of the lights. I have a program that turns off group of lights off after 11:15pm. Late night off - [ID 0004][Parent 0001] If Time is 11:15:00PM Then Wait 25 minutes (Random) Set Scene 'Evening table lamps' Off Set 'Appliance Linc (Flourescent)' Off Set 'DVD Shelves' Off Set Scene 'Outdoor light' Off Wait 3 seconds Set 'Living Room / Living Room (Ellipsoidal)' 10% Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') When I get up in the morning, I notice that 2 or 3 of the 4 or 5 are still on (typically its one of the evening table lamps, the DVD shelves and the Appliance Linc (if it gets turned on by a different program)) The outdoor light and one of the table lamps turns off like it should. The Ellipsoidal does not go to 10%, its actually one of the table lamps that is still on. I open up ISY on my computer and all my wired or plugged in devices are having communication errors (Red explanation point). Locally, I can still control everything. I tried doing a PLM restore, but that doesn't seem to do anything. The PLM was just replaced in January (bought from Amazon) to replace my old one that was having problems and at its "two year life". (I ordered replacement caps for the old one as a back up this week but one of the caps is on backorder till mid July.) The other thing that I am wondering might be causing problems is that I have noticed in one room, I have switched outlet that has a lamp plugged into it. I replaced the switch with a SwitchLinc Dimmer. I have noticed that every now and then that light will flicker. (I don't remember if that happened when the normal switch was installed.) Example: I turn the light on. About 3 minutes later it will turn off of a half sec (well its faster than I can set any timer for) and then right back on. Then maybe 5 min later it will turn off for half a sec and then back on. And then sometimes it won't do it for maybe 20 minutes or the hour that I have the light on. I've checked the connections in the outlet and the switch, and they are secure. Both this switch/outlet, the PLM, and ISY are on the same circuit. Could there be a loose connection somewhere in the breaker panel and because of this is turning the entire thing on and off making the PLM and ISY unhappy? All of these items were fine before I moved and now everything is not happy. Things I feel like I should try next (unless someone has a better suggestion): Move the PLM and ISY to a different outlet than the one with the flickering problems to see if the flickering is causing the ISY failure. Move the lamp to a different outlet and see if its the specific switch/outlet that are causing the flickering.
Brian H Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 Using a Dimmer to control an outlet is dangerous and against the Electrical Code. Too easy to connect a load not made to be dimmed. Causing damage to the dimmer load or both. What type of bulb is in the lamp? Is it rated to be on a dimmer if not an old fashioned incandescent type? A Switchlinc relay would be OK. Is the PLM on the same outlet as the UPS? The AC Input on an UPS can absorb Insteon power line signals. Unless the UPS is on a filter to isolate it from the PLM. I have a 10 amp FilterLinc on my UPS. With the PLM in the unfiltered outlet on the front of the FilterLinc.
stusviews Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 After you take care of everything that Brian suggested, create a single scene with all the devices you want turned off and control that one scene (less traffic is the result).
SetMonkey13 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Posted July 1, 2015 Good to know about the dimmer and outlet. In my old condo, the dimmer switches controlled lights. I guess I should get a switchlinc relay for that outlet and put the lamp with a lamplinc on a always powered outlet. The bulb is a Cree LED. I also added an incandescent since I've heard the LED might not be a large enough load. I don't have a UPS (if you mean uninterrupted power supply). The ISY and PLM are plugged into the same outlet. The PLM has a filterlinc attached to it. Making a scene for turning them off is a good idea.
stusviews Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 The PLM has a filterlinc attached to it. If you mean that the PLM is connected to the filtered outlet on the FilterLinc, then that will prevent the PLM from receiving or transmitting powerline signals. The PLM is then relying on RF which can be considerably less reliable.
SetMonkey13 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Posted July 1, 2015 Ops, I guess I should have looked a bit harder. Totally had the filterlinc doing nothing useful. The router, modem, ISY used to be plugged into the filtered outlet on the side. After I moved I didn't put them back there.
SetMonkey13 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Posted July 1, 2015 If you mean that the PLM is connected to the filtered outlet on the FilterLinc, then that will prevent the PLM from receiving or transmitting powerline signals. The PLM is then relying on RF which can be considerably less reliable. The PLM was plugged into the always on part of the filterlinc
stusviews Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 It's OK for the router and/or modem to be filtered, but definitely not the PLM nor ISY. BTW, you can use a SwitchLinc On/Off Module (relay) to control the outlet or you can keep the diimmer and link, but not wire it to an OutletLinc Dimmer or just make both outlets live and plug in a LampLinc (and use the dimmer to control the LampLinc.
DennisC Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 Using a Dimmer to control an outlet is dangerous and against the Electrical Code. Too easy to connect a load not made to be dimmed. Causing damage to the dimmer load or both. This might be a solution: http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/048085b.pdf
stusviews Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 The Insteon OutletLinc Dimmer does not require separate feeds as does the Lutron device. The OutletLinc dimmer does not require replacing the lamp plug, the Lutron does. And the OutletLinc dimmer will accept only 2-prong plugs with the included slip-on adapter, so it's also NEC approved.
SetMonkey13 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Posted July 1, 2015 So for right now I removed the dimmer on the outlet and put the lamp on a lamplinc on a always on outlet. I also moved the ISY and PLM to another circuit just to see if it was a problem there. I also took Stu's suggestion of making a scene for all the items I wanted turned off. I have bad news (and some good news). The lamp still flickers and probably more often. When I unplug the lamplinc and just plug the lamp in, it seems fine. Didn't notice any of the flickering. The other bad news is that I logged onto ISY and all of the items had red explanation points again (I was able to restore the PLM previously). The good news is that all the lights turned off like they should. So it seems like there is something bad with the power that the Insteon stuff does not like. And it seems like the whole house. Suggestions causes and fixes? I was going to borrow an oscilloscope from work to see how bad the sine wave is but I am worried that there is no fix for this and all my Insteon stuff is useless on my new house.
stusviews Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 Are you saying that the incandescent bulb flickers?
SetMonkey13 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Posted July 1, 2015 Are you saying that the incandescent bulb flickers? It's a Cree LED bulb. It will be on, turn off for half a second, and then is back on for maybe 30-45 seconds and then repeats. If I plug the Cree LED into the outlet, it lights fine with no flickering. If the LED is connected to the LampLinc, it flickers.
Brian H Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 How old is the LampLinc and is it a 2456D or 2457D2? They have a local control sensing current. That sometimes can trigger LED electronics. Can you as a small test. Using a power cube so both the Cree and a small 7 watt incandescent night light is on the LampLinc's output. See if anything chances with the small incandescent load added.
SetMonkey13 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Posted July 1, 2015 How old is the LampLinc and is it a 2456D or 2457D2? They have a local control sensing current. That sometimes can trigger LED electronics. Can you as a small test. Using a power cube so both the Cree and a small 7 watt incandescent night light is on the LampLinc's output. See if anything chances with the small incandescent load added. Its a 2457D2. Its one of the first ones I bought I think, so about 3-4 years if I had to guess. I can add an incandescent also to it when I get home, but it doesn't explain why all the wired devices in ISY have red explanation points now.
SetMonkey13 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Posted July 1, 2015 Ok, home from work. Here is what I tried, might be "fixed" (will see what happens overnight). But I am also confused about the fix. So I added a power cube to the LampLinc and had the LED and a 60W incandescent (easiest thing I had around). Flicker still happened. I then decided to turn off all the breakers in the house except the one the LampLinc was on. The plan was to turn them on one by one to see when the problem happens. With only the one breaker on and only the LampLinc (and its lights) plugged in, it was still flickering. I decided to swap out the LampLinc for an extra ApplianceLinc I have. No flickering. So, thats good news. I then unplugged the lights from the ApplianceLinc and plugged them into the LampLinc and plugged that back in (while leaving the ApplianceLinc still plugged in on another outlet). Still no flicker. Unplug the ApplianceLinc, flicker returns. Plug the ApplianceLinc back in, flickering stops. I'm confused that even without a load, the ApplianceLinc is solving the problem. I don't get it. Its like the ApplianceLinc is acting like a magic box right now. Why is this. And is there a better solution because it kinda seems like a bandaid for a larger problem.
stusviews Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 That seems to be something on that circuit that's causing the difficulty. Try plugging a different dual-band device in where the ApplianceLinc is plugged in. If that solves the problem, then it may be due to the additional RF signal. Unplug or disconnect everything on that circuit except the LampLinc. Simply turning something off is not adequate. Any success?
SetMonkey13 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Posted July 2, 2015 That seems to be something on that circuit that's causing the difficulty. Try plugging a different dual-band device in where the ApplianceLinc is plugged in. If that solves the problem, then it may be due to the additional RF signal. Unplug or disconnect everything on that circuit except the LampLinc. Simply turning something off is not adequate. Any success? When I turned off all the breakers, I also unplugged everything on the one circuit except for a desk lamp which is on a wall switch that was off. There is an attic fan that I'm not sure which circuit it's on, but I'm also convinced it doesn't work right now (weekend project is to see if that is a thermostat or motor problem.) I'll try another dual band lamplinc from another room tomorrow.
SetMonkey13 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Posted July 3, 2015 Seems like any dual band device stops the flicker but it has to on the same outlet or the next outlet in the room (based on how the load and neutral lines go around the room). Putting the dual band device in another room (same circuit) doesn't help.
stusviews Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 1. Try the same lamp plus bulb and LampLinc in an outlet on a different circuit. 2. Try the same lamp plus bulb, but a different LampLinc in the problem outlet. What are the results?
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