rlanza1054 Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 HI, I've discussed this with someone once. I want a dimmer wall switch 2487D to be set for 'Blink On Traffic'. The dimmer is located accorss the room from where I usually sit to watch TV. I had it set when I was using the Insteon Hub and it was the way I realized I had issues somewhere in the house. When it got set back to factory when I switch to the ISY and added it,there is no way to turn that setting on for this model switch. I was told just to set it on manually from the switch. While that was an OK statement and I was fine with doing that, however the documentation for this dimmer switch states that the setting for 'Blink On Traffic' can ONLY be set via "software or central controller". So then since the ISY doesn't seem to be able to handle all of the 'optional' settings on some of the device, how do I get this setting turned on? Is there a way to push a command to it via the ISY without having it available in options? Can I use my old Insteon Hub (2245-222) to turm on the setting for me without messing up the ISY? Maybe I can remove it from ISY, add it to Insteon Hub, turn on 'Blink for Traffic, remove from Insteon and then add it back into ISY without performing the factory reset? Or maybe do the same procedure using the Houselinc and its PLM? I'm not sure which is the best of the two? I would prefer to use the ISY of course! Thanks Rob Link to comment
LeeG Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 4.3.10 and 4.3.18 have additional Options Button that has that option. Link to comment
rlanza1054 Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 4.3.10 and 4.3.18 have additional Options Button that has that option. Sorry, that is is for the Keypadlinc, not a regular Insteon Wall Dimmer 2487D! Its not available in options. Rob Link to comment
LeeG Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 My v.44 SwitchLinc Dimmer that is I2CS shows as 2477D and does have Options button. I cannot find info for a 2487D I have found a 2487S 6 button KPL. Odd that a completely different type of device would also be labeled 2487 Link to comment
Teken Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 There is no harm using the HUB / HL2 to enable those options. So long as you delete it from the various systems when done. It should also be noted if you ever use the LED brightness via the ISY Series Controller. You will find that the default LED brightness is much dimmer than how the device came from the factory. In some cases even hard resetting a piece of hardware has no affect on restoring the LED brightness. So please keep this in mind should you ever consider making this change. I've seen this odd behavior on the KPL's, plugin lamp linc and On-Off modules that just came out. Nobody has been able to explain why performing a hard reset does not in fact bring the device back to a OEM state. It comes across that the ISY has some unknown ability to over ride these values in the hardware. Link to comment
rlanza1054 Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 Whoops! Sorry guys my dyslexia got in the way, the Insteon Wall Dimmer is 2477D not 2487D! Again sorry for confusing everyone trying to help! Rob UPDATE: In the past I did notice the led much dimmer, I forgot how I ended up getting it back to the default from factory. But it was about a month ago when that happened. I did get the status light to Blink On Traffic using the HIB. But I added it back into the ISY using the remove all existing links, and now the Hub has the device stored but can control it. I forgot to remove it from HUB before adding it to ISY. And I don't want to mess up anything by removing it from the HUB now because I'm not sure if it will clear out ISY link. Its not a big problem, I'll just start over again and this time remember to remove it from HUB first before adding into ISY. Thanks again. PS I do wish that at some point ISY will contain those missing options so we don't have to reply on other controllers for this. As I said, just use Houselinc 'devices.xml' file to get the option info. I'm attaching the current one that I have here if anyone wants to take a look at it to see if it can be read. Devices.xml Link to comment
LeeG Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 When you click on 2477D what is displayed on 2nd line on right side of Admin Display?. Link to comment
LeeG Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 The point of the question is to learn the firmware level of the SwitchLinc. Unless an older device ISY 4.3.18 image has the Options button for the SwitchLinc so it will not be necessary to use the Hub. Link to comment
rlanza1054 Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 When you click on 2477D what is displayed on 2nd line on right side of Admin Display?. Hi, Here is what I get when looking at the 2477D. No options whatsoever! Link to comment
rlanza1054 Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 The point of the question is to learn the firmware level of the SwitchLinc. Unless an older device ISY 4.3.18 image has the Options button for the SwitchLinc so it will not be necessary to use the Hub. Hi, You think they had the options in an older version of the software? Why would they pull out the options. There are no options for even the Keypadlinc. I only see options for my Micro Switches and the Motion Sensors. And even with the Micro switches its missing 'Blink on Traffic', unless LED on TX is equal to Blink on Traffic. I am assuming that LED on TX is LED on Transmission, not Traffic. I did find one device that has a complete set of options and that was the On/Off Module (model: 2635-222) and I just discovered that the Wall Outlet also contains the full set of options, but nothing else. Here is what it looks like with the full set of options: Rob Link to comment
rlanza1054 Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 Hi, Would it be possible for ISY to take those options and separate the actual command so that we can at least try to send a command for example to Blink On Traffic to a device that doesn't have the options. It is either not going to be adapted by the device or it will be. Chances are that the command string is the same across all devices, so the Blink On Traffic setup command is the same variable set to the device whether its the On/Off Module, the Oulet, or even a Dimmer that is not listing it as an available option. Is this even possible? As I stated, I believe all the options that need to be programmed by software only, need to be available to the users of the ISY, otherwise they will indeed have to invest in a HUB or the HouseLinc software and its required PLM (which is not the same as the PLM used for the ISY). Rob Link to comment
LeeG Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 You need to be on 4.3.18 to have the Options button. It was also available in 4.3.10 as I was running 4.3.10 when your question came up. I do not know which 4.3.xx image added the Options button. Link to comment
rlanza1054 Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 You need to be on 4.3.18 to have the Options button. It was also available in 4.3.10 as I was running 4.3.10 when your question came up. I do not know which 4.3.xx image added the Options button. So you mean I would have to downgrade the software to get the options availability back. Why did they remove those options when upgrading, does make sense that they did that. Let's face it, Insteon is making the options available on the latest firmware of the HUB? I have a HUB, so I probably would not downgrade the software, I don't know what I would lose that I have setup and working now. But I obviously was just asking these questions for a reason. We do need these abilities to fully use or Insteon, Smartlinc or Keypadlinc devices, without having to rely on other central controllers or having to downgrade the software, As I suggested, maybe provide a way of sending the individual command even if the option is missing, it will either work or it won't. Rob Link to comment
Techman Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 You need to be on 4.3.18 to have the Options button. It was also available in 4.3.10 as I was running 4.3.10 when your question came up. I do not know which 4.3.xx image added the Options button. I'm running 4.3.1 and have the option button on my 2477D ver 44. Maybe rlanza1054 needs to do a factory reset and re-install on the device Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Hi Rob, Versions are numbered in an increasing order. So, 4.3.18 is higher than 4.2.30. Again, 4.2.30 is our OFFICIAL BUILD. If you don't mind beta (we usually have 6 or 7 of those per year), then you might want to upgrade to 4.3.18: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/16772-release-4318-rc6-is-now-avaialble/ With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
rlanza1054 Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 Hi Rob, Versions are numbered in an increasing order. So, 4.3.18 is higher than 4.2.30. Again, 4.2.30 is our OFFICIAL BUILD. If you don't mind beta (we usually have 6 or 7 of those per year), then you might want to upgrade to 4.3.18: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/16772-release-4318-rc6-is-now-avaialble/ With kind regards, Michel Well, it might be good to start to learn how to do these upgrades. / Is there anything I need to do prior to doing the upgrade and do I have to worry about losing my current setting, scenes and programs? And because I was told by Steve that 5.0 has some better support for the iMeter, I would like to try that, it you think its ok, if not I will try the 4.3.18 you suggested? Rob Link to comment
rlanza1054 Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 Quick question: Do I download the first one in the list of the two offerings: ISY 994i Series including Z-Wave Support ISY 994i ZW, Z, or ZS Series (Z-Wave/Zigbee and/or if you do NOT have a PLM) My ISY has this printed on the label on the bottom of the ISY: ISY994i ZW/IR PRO and it came with the 2413s PLM. I downloaded the first one listed, both 4.3.18 and 5.0 I think I will just use the 4.3.18 and try and learn how to do the upgrade, the 5.0 might introduce more complications that I don't need right now while I am still learning the upgrade. Then I will check the options for the switch 2478d. The original reason for starting this thread. Thanks Rob Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Hi Rob, Either one will work. The only difference is that the second one will NOT go to Safe Mode if the PLM is not installed. The first one goes to Safe Mode (nothing will work) if the PLM is not installed or working. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
ryanmead83 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Michel does the Insteon and PLM still work on the Z-Wave firmware option that doesn't do safe mode? Or does it need the one supporting the PLM? Just asking because when I had recent issues with a bad PLM I was unable to do anything with my Z-Wave devices, as it was always in safe mode. So turning on Z-Wave devices wouldn't work, so if using the Z-Wave firmware ignores PLM problems and doesn't do safe mode that could be handy. Link to comment
rlanza1054 Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 Hi Rob, Either one will work. The only difference is that the second one will NOT go to Safe Mode if the PLM is not installed. The first one goes to Safe Mode (nothing will work) if the PLM is not installed or working. With kind regards, Michel Thanks, but I'm not sure what that means. Safe mode? Is that something one would want? Without it going into safe mode, means the ISY will just send commands because it cannot tell if the PLM is attached? And I will assume again its because version 5.0 is still in beta and that functionality hasn't been added just yet? Thanks, but as I said, its probably best to just try 4.3.18 learn what's involved with upgrading, look at the options for the dimmer and later on I can play around with 5.0; which I am looking forward to. Rob Link to comment
Teken Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 If the device is in safe mode nothing will operate as you expect. You will want to install the firmware outlined by Michel that avoids the whole issue. There is no downside here for those with a hybrid environment. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent Link to comment
rlanza1054 Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Hi all, OK, I did my first upgrade. Only had two issues which I got immediate help with. Thank you! But now for the news about the 'option settings' for Insteon dimmer 2477D. I now does indeed have the option settings available. But the bad news, it does not contain what I was looking for in the first place, the 'Blink on Traffic' I'm going to post the screenshot. One screenshot of the 2477D options, notice how its missing the 'Blink on Traffic', which is different from 'LED on TX' the other screenshot is of the on/off module, notice that it does indeed contain both the 'Blink on Traffic' and the 'LED on TX'. I believe that the only devices that are in the ISY's database that contain ALL the options are the very very new Insteon devices. The older devices might contain some of the options but not all. As this just proved it. I have said for sometime that ISY could just use the 'devices.xml' to obtain and update ISY's Insteon devices database, without the need to figure out what options are available on each device. This is the newest database of devices that the Houselinc software uses. I posted that file a few posts back. I asked if there was a way to read that file so it could be used, if ISY developers are interesting in providing those option settings to the users. And if not we will have to maintain a Hub or Houselinc (with its PLM) should we need to alter those missing options. I've added that devices.xml file again PS I might have been wrong about the devices.xml file. it might not contain the info. I found another file but at this point I'm just guessing. I found something called SmartLabs.Insteon.Devices.dll. the system won't allow me to upload this file. But maybe there is a way t get those missing settings applied. What if I lie to the ISY and install my dimmer and say its the on/off module which contains the missing option, apply the option and then fix the device to now say its the dimmer and not the on/off module. Its what we call a 'white lie'. I just use the incorrect device to send the command get the option I wanted and then go back to the correct device. I might try it just to see if it can be done, proof of concept as it were. Rob Devices.xml Link to comment
LeeG Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 The ISY uses the words from developer documents. Where are you getting Blink On Traffic (Sales document ?) and how are you determining that it is different from LED on Tx (from developer document). Link to comment
rlanza1054 Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 The ISY uses the words from developer documents. Where are you getting Blink On Traffic (Sales document ?) and how are you determining that it is different from LED on Tx (from developer document). Hi, Today, I need to spend time cleaning up my apartment; I'm so embarrassed, I've been on the computer all day for the past week. And now dishes in the sink have reached the bottom of the kitchen cabinet hanging over the sink. I live alone, but my friend came over last night and just stopped in his tracks and said: Holy Sh*t!. So I will write this post and then turn off the computer until I can walk without stepping over garbage. Again, I live alone, that's the only reason I could get away with it. LOL! I'm going to answer your question but I need to tell you what happened when I tried something this morning. I thought that maybe I could install a device with the auto-discovery turned off and just select a device that contains the 'Blink On Traffic', set it to be on, then remove it and reinstall it using the proper device or use Auto-Discovery. Well, it seems the ISY is too smart, it won't allow me to do that. It reads the device and jus installed the proper one. So there is no way to fake it to get the options even if only temporarily. And I found something interesting regarding the Keypadlinc devices. I own one Keypadlinc Dimmer (8-Button) 2334-222 and I own two Keypadlinc On/Off Switches (8-Button) 2487S. It seems the ISY for the Keypadlinc Dimmer has the Options settings available. But according to documentation, it does not offer the Blink On Traffic, but offers something else, 'Error Blink'. That setting is only available via software from a central controller, such as HUB or ISY. The ISY is missing that 'Error Blink' Option. Now for what is really interesting: The Keypadlinc On/Off Switch (8 Button, only the A button is the hardwired on/off switch) 2487S, is not showing any Options settings. For this particular Keypadlinc there is no way to adjust those software only options using the ISY. Now to answer your question: If you looked at the screenshots I posted, one is a screenshot of the On/Off Plugin Module, the settings available in its Option settings are the following: Program Lock LED on TX LED Blink On Error Beep RF Powerline Send Cleanup Messages Smart Hops It seems the ISY does indeed offer the complete set of Options Settings for this particular device. If 'LED on Tx' was actually another way of saying 'Blink on Traffic', then there would not be a separate selection for 'Blink On Traffic'. That is how I know the two are two different things. LED on TX is Flash LED when transmitting a communication signal. It does not mean Blink on Traffic, which means Flash the LED on any and all Insteon traffic it hears from all of your devices, not just itself. ALL traffic. While composing this post, I kept going to the documentation of each type of device. Dimmers, On/Off Switches, Micro Dimmers, Micro On/Off, Plug-in Modules both Dimmers and On/Off and lastly the Keypadlincs. I was looking at All the information on 'Blink on Traffic' if a device offers it, is clearly explains on what it does and what it does not do and how to enable or disable the function. What I am not finding is this 'LED on TX', this is interesting. I do know from a technical stand point, that TX stands for Transmit Data and RX stands for Receive Data. Standard terminology that is used to explain for example a RS-232 serial port. It has TX, RX, DTS, etc. I will see what happens when I turn that on in a dimmer and see what it actually does. And you asked where I get the information, besides just a screenshot. I'm reading the supplied documentation that comes with each of these devices. You mentioned 'Developer' documents. I have never seen a developer document. Maybe Insteon does not want third party developers to know or program for these extra functions. Maybe the reason is so that it holds something over the customers. Because if I can only use these functions from software via a central controller, then I would need to get a Insteon Hub or a Houselinc software. Maybe they did not provide the full information to a third party like ISY. Is there a way to get these so called 'Developer' documentation? And if you don't have copies of the documentation that is included inside each box of a device when you purchase that device, I will attach a few of those pdf files here so you can look for yourself. Rob 2334-2xx-keypaddim.pdf 2442-x22-en-microdim.pdf 2443-x22-en-microonoff.pdf 2477S-en-onoffswitch.pdf 2478D-en-dimswitch.pdf 2487S-en-keypadonoff.pdf This on/off plug-in module's documentation was too big and wasn't allowed to be attached, so I zipped it up. 2635-222.pdf.zip Link to comment
rlanza1054 Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Ok, I tried to turn on the 'LED on TX' on a different device from the one I use the HUB to turn on the 'Blink on Traffic'. The results: Astounding! It seems that the 'LED on TX' is the same as 'Blink on Traffic'! I checked off the option for a dimmer that is right next to the other dimmer that I used the HUB to set the Blink on Traffic, I saw the blinking when I turned on the dimmer, then I went to see if it was all traffic, I started to turn on and off other devices around the house. This dimmer is showing the Blink On Traffic!!!! WTF!!!! All of this thread devoted to Blink on Traffic and in the end, LED on TX is 'Blink on Traffic'! What I don't understand after all this time spent, is why is the ISY naming it 'LED on TX', why not use the terminology used everywhere (HUB, Houselinc, etc) why did they rename it to something confusing. And why with the Plug-In On/Off Module, it's Options setting choices are ((I listed them in the previous post) 'LED on TX' and 'Blink on Traffic'? If it's the same thing, why offer it with two different labels? It could be that they are indeed different, but the device just picks up that 'LED on TX' and assumes it's 'Blink on Traffic'. I'm sorry, but this isn't right! If it really really is the same thing, then either get rid of all mention of Blink on Traffic, or better yet, rename 'LED on TX' to what it is: 'Blink on Traffic'. Why is it necessary to confuse the users with these two different labels. Just change the naming of the label to be 'Blink on Traffic'. Was this done, because that is how it's listed in the developer documentation whereas the user documentation prints it as 'Blink on Traffic'? I'm repeating but... I really feel like I was made a fool of here! It is Blink on Traffic on the HUB, there is no setting at all in any of the devices 'LED on TX. The same holds for the Houselinc software. I'm beginning to think this is some kind Unix priest thing, make it so hard to figure out that the regular Joe will never be able to understand how to use it. Rob Link to comment
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