Should I Swap My PLM?

[upstatemike]

I am still having a lot of trouble with switches not reporting their status. These are mostly 3 year old rev1 Icons, not newer I2 stuff. They work in all other respects... linking, control from the ISY gui, etc, but will not report local operation.

 

My PLM is 2.75 hardware with .63 firmware. I have another 2.75 PLM that I could try (left over from the old verson IES touch screen) but I am not sure if it is worth trying it? The hardware rev is the same and maybe its not worth trying unless I get something newer?

 

My concern is writing new links to every single device in my system. Status takes over 10 minutes on startup... I wonder how long a PLM swap will take? Hours and hours? I'm thinking there is a lot of risk in making a swap like this with not much chance of improvement. Is this valid or should I just go for it? (I should add that my family will make life very unpleasant for me if there is any significant outage or other impact to the lighting system as a result of trying this).

[MikeB]

Have you considered maybe running a test with a single Icon before taking the plunge?

 

Maybe backup your ISY, hook it to the new PLM, factory reset it, add 1 of your probelm devices and see what happens.

 

If it works, maybe it's worth doing the swap. If it doesn't, switch back to your old PLM and restore your backup.

[Sub-Routine]

I believe that is a fault in the switches.

 

I have an older Insteon switch, v.24, that never has, and never will, report changes in it's status. I replaced it once, but the new switch burnt out in about 8 hours, so it went back in. Since I don't use it in any programs I haven't worried about it.

 

MikeB's test might be worth a shot though.

 

Rand

[upstatemike]

I went ahead and did the PLM swap and that has solved the reporting issues. All switches, new and old, Icon and Switchlinc, are now registering reliably when operated locally.

 

I wonder how often these PLMs are going to fail? I guess I should plan to always have a spare on hand!

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello upstatemike,

 

Although a relief, this is not good. Are you sure you now have a PLM with extended memory?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I went ahead and did the PLM swap and that has solved the reporting issues. All switches, new and old, Icon and Switchlinc, are now registering reliably when operated locally.

 

I wonder how often these PLMs are going to fail? I guess I should plan to always have a spare on hand!

[Sub-Routine]

I went ahead and did the PLM swap and that has solved the reporting issues. All switches, new and old, Icon and Switchlinc, are now registering reliably when operated locally.

 

I wonder how often these PLMs are going to fail? I guess I should plan to always have a spare on hand!

 

Yes, a good and bad solution. That's really odd it was only certain devices.

 

I have a 2.4 with firmware 52 for over a year.

 

How long did it take to replace the modem? What ISY version are you using?

 

Rand

[upstatemike]

I didn't time it exactly but I it was probably close to 2 hours

 

PLM is HW 2.75 FW 63

 

ISY is 99i/Pro running 2.6.10

[jamesx0]

I just swapped in my HL2 PLM and it seems to be working. It shows up as v72 in the admin console.

[upstatemike]

Not done yet... I noticed today that the switch at the top of my basement stairs was no longer triggering the all lights basement lights of program. It is a relay switch with the same firmware as my test switch (v.2C) but it is older than the test switch.

 

I retested the test switch and it is still reporting fine. So now I am wondering if this is new since one of the recent ISY firmware upgrades? I am currently at 2.6.12 but it could have happened with 2.6.11 or 2.6.10 and I just didn't notice right away.

 

My theory is that relay switch firmware v.2C is where the transition from I1 to I2 happened so some switches reporting that firmware version are I1 devices and others with the same firmware are I2. Could it be that the ISY is treating all of these switches as I2 so the older ones don't report status anymore?

[MikeB]

I noticed today that the switch at the top of my basement stairs was no longer triggering the all lights basement lights of program.

 

Hey Mike -

 

If you haven't, do a manual query on that switch to ensure the ISY doesn't think it has a bogus ON LEVEL. With the bug I was seeing a relay will show an ON LEVEL of 100%, but in reality the ISY thinks it should be OFF when an ON command is received.

 

Another way to test is to try double-tapping the device on (FAST ON) - if it's the ON LEVEL bug, the ISY will see the FAST ON and show the device as on.

[upstatemike]

Manual query works fine. Fast On (double tap) does not report.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello upstatemike,

 

Have you tried restoring your switch using 2.6.12?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Manual query works fine. Fast On (double tap) does not report.

[upstatemike]

Hello upstatemike,

 

Have you tried restoring your switch using 2.6.12?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Manual query works fine. Fast On (double tap) does not report.

 

Yes. That was the first thing I tried.

[upstatemike]

Went back to 2.6.8 and restored the switch but that did not work either. I am now at 2.6.13 and no joy. This is just like the problem that I solved with the test switch by swapping the PLM except the test switch still works (and I don't have any more PLMs to try.)

 

I'll just replace this switch with the working test switch and be done with it. Hopefully there aren't too many more switches with this problem.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello upstatemike,

 

If this is indeed a switch problem then I am worried that we are going to see more of this. Can you do me a favor:

Check the Device Link Table and ISY Link Table for this switch and, if they are different, please send me both (we did this before but not with 2.6.13).

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Went back to 2.6.8 and restored the switch but that did not work either. I am now at 2.6.13 and no joy. This is just like the problem that I solved with the test switch by swapping the PLM except the test switch still works (and I don't have any more PLMs to try.)

 

I'll just replace this switch with the working test switch and be done with it. Hopefully there aren't too many more switches with this problem.

[upstatemike]

I looked in the PLM link table but could not find the switch in the list. I did a factory reset on the switch and then restored it but that did not change anything.

 

I looked at the device link table but it was empty... I'm not clear how to populate it. While it was open I operated the switch locally and also through the ISY GUI but nothing gets displayed. What else should I do to get something to show in the device link table window?

 

 

Hello upstatemike,

 

If this is indeed a switch problem then I am worried that we are going to see more of this. Can you do me a favor:

Check the Device Link Table and ISY Link Table for this switch and, if they are different, please send me both (we did this before but not with 2.6.13).

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Went back to 2.6.8 and restored the switch but that did not work either. I am now at 2.6.13 and no joy. This is just like the problem that I solved with the test switch by swapping the PLM except the test switch still works (and I don't have any more PLMs to try.)

 

I'll just replace this switch with the working test switch and be done with it. Hopefully there aren't too many more switches with this problem.

[IndyMike]

Hello Upstate,

 

Just to sum things up (make sure we have the facts correct):

1) Your ICON works fine from the GUI but doesn't report status in response to a local on.

2) The PLM does not show links for the device (Diagnostics: show PLM Links table

3) After a factory reset/restore, the switch has no links listed (Diagnostics: show device Link table).

 

Please correct me if the above is inaccurate.

 

Would you be kind enough to inspect the ISY Link table for this device? Since you can communicate with it directly, they ISY should have entries for it.

 

If you have no entries for the device in the PLM, I don't believe the PLM will listen for device "local on" changes. You may need to restore your PLM (again). Please wait on Michel's input prior to doing this.

[upstatemike]

1- Correct except the switch we are discussing at this point is a SwitchLinc relay, not an Icon. All previous problems with Icons and my test Switchlinc relay were resolved when I replaced the PLM. The basement switch has the same problem but it is a different switch and it used to work fine.

 

2- Correct.

 

3- Correct

 

The ISY link table has several links to the switch. 4 of those links include the address of the PLM.

 

Hello Upstate,

 

Just to sum things up (make sure we have the facts correct):

1) Your ICON works fine from the GUI but doesn't report status in response to a local on.

2) The PLM does not show links for the device (Diagnostics: show PLM Links table

3) After a factory reset/restore, the switch has no links listed (Diagnostics: show device Link table).

 

Please correct me if the above is inaccurate.

 

Would you be kind enough to inspect the ISY Link table for this device? Since you can communicate with it directly, they ISY should have entries for it.

 

If you have no entries for the device in the PLM, I don't believe the PLM will listen for device "local on" changes. You may need to restore your PLM (again). Please wait on Michel's input prior to doing this.

[IndyMike]

Upstate,

 

You've confirmed that the ISY maintained the links for the device. This is why you can communicate with the SWL directly from the GUI.

 

I still don't understand why the restore didn't put the links back in the SWL. It's possible that the missing links in the PLM caused this to go awry. We'll definitely need Michel for this...

 

I'm beginning to think that your "old" PLM was in fact OK. It was simply missing links to the devices much like your current SWL. The real question is why the links are missing.

 

1- Correct except the switch we are discussing at this point is a SwitchLinc relay, not an Icon. All previous problems with Icons and my test Switchlinc relay were resolved when I replaced the PLM. The basement switch has the same problem but it is a different switch and it used to work fine.

 

2- Correct.

 

3- Correct

 

The ISY link table has several links to the switch. 4 of those links include the address of the PLM.

 

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello upstatemike,

 

To get the link tables:

1. Click on Start

2. Choose the device from the list

3. Click on OK

 

I am still very interested in the device link table and ISY link table for that device. If they are different, then ISY is not restoring it properly. If they are the same then the problem is either the PLM or the Switch.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[upstatemike]

Hi Michel-

 

This is the process I was following and the window was not populating. I have since looked at the links of some other devices and then tried the switch in question again and this time it worked. Does this process sometimes get stuck or something?

 

In any case I finally got the links to display and there is a link that reads:

 

A2 00 0C.A5.28 FF 1F 00 where 0C.A5.28 is the address of my new PLM.

 

I just rechecked the PLM link table and this time found the switch listed. I don't think I would have missed it the first time so I am confused on why I am getting a different result now.

 

The PLM links I have for this switch are:

 

E2 00

A1 01

E2 34

E2 39

 

The total link count for the PLM is 785 and the memory location of the last link in the table is 0310.

 

Hello upstatemike,

 

To get the link tables:

1. Click on Start

2. Choose the device from the list

3. Click on OK

 

I am still very interested in the device link table and ISY link table for that device. If they are different, then ISY is not restoring it properly. If they are the same then the problem is either the PLM or the Switch.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi upstatemike,

 

Would you also check the ISY Link Table for the device (this is what ISY thinks the device has). This has to be compared with Device Link Table for the same device. What we want to do is to make sure ISY and SWL both have the same view of the world.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Hi Michel-

 

This is the process I was following and the window was not populating. I have since looked at the links of some other devices and then tried the switch in question again and this time it worked. Does this process sometimes get stuck or something?

 

In any case I finally got the links to display and there is a link that reads:

 

A2 00 0C.A5.28 FF 1F 00 where 0C.A5.28 is the address of my new PLM.

 

I just rechecked the PLM link table and this time found the switch listed. I don't think I would have missed it the first time so I am confused on why I am getting a different result now.

 

The PLM links I have for this switch are:

 

E2 00

A1 01

E2 34

E2 39

 

The total link count for the PLM is 785 and the memory location of the last link in the table is 0310.

 

Hello upstatemike,

 

To get the link tables:

1. Click on Start

2. Choose the device from the list

3. Click on OK

 

I am still very interested in the device link table and ISY link table for that device. If they are different, then ISY is not restoring it properly. If they are the same then the problem is either the PLM or the Switch.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[upstatemike]

The ISY Link table for this switch has the following links for the PLM address of 0C.A5.28 :

 

A2 00

A2 34

A2 39

A2 6C

 

Hi upstatemike,

 

Would you also check the ISY Link Table for the device (this is what ISY thinks the device has). This has to be compared with Device Link Table for the same device. What we want to do is to make sure ISY and SWL both have the same view of the world.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Hi Michel-

 

This is the process I was following and the window was not populating. I have since looked at the links of some other devices and then tried the switch in question again and this time it worked. Does this process sometimes get stuck or something?

 

In any case I finally got the links to display and there is a link that reads:

 

A2 00 0C.A5.28 FF 1F 00 where 0C.A5.28 is the address of my new PLM.

 

I just rechecked the PLM link table and this time found the switch listed. I don't think I would have missed it the first time so I am confused on why I am getting a different result now.

 

The PLM links I have for this switch are:

 

E2 00

A1 01

E2 34

E2 39

 

The total link count for the PLM is 785 and the memory location of the last link in the table is 0310.

 

Hello upstatemike,

 

To get the link tables:

1. Click on Start

2. Choose the device from the list

3. Click on OK

 

I am still very interested in the device link table and ISY link table for that device. If they are different, then ISY is not restoring it properly. If they are the same then the problem is either the PLM or the Switch.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[upstatemike]

I tested some additional switches in the basement today and I am not getting reports of local activation from any of them. There are just too many to assume the switches are failing. Since the links now appear to be visible in the PLM and ISY, I am not sure what the best next step would be:

 

I could switch to I1 Only mode but I think my KeypadLinc relay might be using some I2 commands?

 

I could stay in Automatic mode and try to have the problem devices re-establish the best communication method but I don't know how to force this. Do I do a query? A restore? Remove and re-add the problem device?

 

I could go back to the last version that worked with these switches... Probably 2.6 (I know 2.8 does not work).

 

Anybody know what the best course of action might be?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello upstatemike,

 

You could go to i1 mode only, do a restore on those devices that have comm problems, and then do your test.

 

Although I agree with you that not all switches could be defective, but going to our service calls, forums, and what I hear I do think that you will experience the same exact issues as you are experiencing now (perhaps not now but in a few days). Please do keep me posted.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

 

I tested some additional switches in the basement today and I am not getting reports of local activation from any of them. There are just too many to assume the switches are failing. Since the links now appear to be visible in the PLM and ISY, I am not sure what the best next step would be:

 

I could switch to I1 Only mode but I think my KeypadLinc relay might be using some I2 commands?

 

I could stay in Automatic mode and try to have the problem devices re-establish the best communication method but I don't know how to force this. Do I do a query? A restore? Remove and re-add the problem device?

 

I could go back to the last version that worked with these switches... Probably 2.6 (I know 2.8 does not work).

 

Anybody know what the best course of action might be?