Pool automation

[buhie]

Hoping for some advice on whether the ISY would be a good solution for pool automation - in particular, controlling a solar boost pump...

 

The old solar controller has died and after looking at all the Pentair/Jandy/etc pool automation products, looks like you can't get away with less then $1000 for a very clunky setup.

 

I've read through the older topics here about pool automation, and the biggest challenge looks to be getting multiple water/air temperature data to the ISY..?

 

In a nutshell, what I'm hoping to get a neat setup to do is:

 

 - Control a basic solar boost pump - sense temperature of the pool water and the roof, run the pump whenever the roof is warmer than the water, up until a set temperature is reached

- View the water temperature and adjust the desired temperature through an iPhone/iPad app

 

- Control the main filter pump on a schedule

- Control a separate in-floor cleaning pump on a  schedule

 

Being able to control the variable speeds on the main filter pump would be a bonus - but not essential (Pentair Intelliflow).

 

I'd like to avoid having to re-wire all the pumps into a dedicated automation power centre like the Pentair or Intermatic systems and just use something like the Insteon plug-in devices on the pumps.

 

Any advice appreciated for a complete noob to the automation world!

 

 

 

[MustangChris04]

I don't see why you couldn't do this all with Insteon products, and much less than $1000

 

You could use an I/O Linc with a temperature threshold kit like this: http://www.smarthome.com/i-o-linc-high-and-low-temperature-threshold-kit-insteon-24950a7.html 

 

Since you need temperature of the water and the roof, which is outdoors, you could use the Insteon Thermostat with the waterpoof sensor: http://www.smarthome.com/waterproof-temperature-sensor-for-insteon-2441zth-wireless-thermostat.html and the thermostat: http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2441zth-wireless-thermostat.html 

 

Insteon says you can extend the waterpoof sensor up to 100' with 22 AWG wire. Just mount the thermostats in a dry location and run an extension to the sensor. 

 

I don't know about controller the variable speeds, but you can get the Insteon 220V Load Controller to turn on and off the pump: http://www.smarthome.com/220v-240v-30-amp-insteon-2477sa1-load-controller-normally-open-relay-dual-band.html

 

Just create a few programs in the ISY for the schedules as well as a program that would run based on the temperature of the thermostat. You can use MobiLinc for iOS/Android to view the temperatures of the thermostats, and have multiple programs in the ISY that you could enable/disable based on the temperature you want, or create a program to turn the pump on/off based on the set temperature of one of the thermostats. 

[stusviews]

The external probe for the wireless Insteon thermostat (2441THZ) does not report the temperature except to the screen of the thermostat. In order for the ISY to respond to the probe, the internal sensor has to be de-soldered and the probe soldered in its place.

[MustangChris04]

Thanks for pointing that out Stu. That's unfortunate, and misleading since the product description says "Connect to an INSTEON Wireless Thermostat to externally monitor temperature". I guess by externally, they mean external from the thermostat and not actually being to monitor it remotely. 

 

buhie, 

 

Here is a thread with the modification Stu is talking about: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/9152-how-to-monitor-water-temp-via-isy-and-catch-more-fish/

[stusviews]

I don't know what's misleading about "Connect to an INSTEON Wireless Thermostat to externally monitor temperature". You can monitor the exterior temperature on the Insteon wireless thermostat. As with all advertising, don't assume it can do more than what's stated.

 

BTW, I've been fooled, too. That's why I thoroughly read Owner's Manuals now and ask question when I can--before purchasing a product

[ScottAvery]

This could all be done with a hodgepodge of modules, but then you have a box of widgets at your pool equipment instead of a standard controller that anyone, including the next owner of your home, can use with or without your ISY.  I went with a Pentair Easy Ttouch (and added intellichlor while I was at it)and there are instructions somewhere on this site for how to connect it to the ISY with a Global Cache or similar RS-232 to IP tool that you can then manage through the network module.  I have not taken the time to connect mine yet, but will someday get around to it.  The Easy Touch was cheaper than the Pentair Intelli-branded ones, and with the combination of capabilities from ISY you could achieve pretty much anything, but still leave a reliable controller if you yanked your automation out.

 

edit: looks like the protocol is rs485 so you need either a 232 <-> 485 converter or a non-Global Cache Ethernet to 485 device.  Several choices on Amazon, including wifi.

[stusviews]

This could all be done with a hodgepodge of modules, but then you have a box of widgets at your pool equipment instead of a standard controller that anyone, including the next owner of your home, can use with or without your ISY.  I went with a Pentair Easy Ttouch (and added intellichlor while I was at it)and there are instructions somewhere on this site for how to connect it to the ISY with a Global Cache or similar RS-232 to IP tool that you can then manage through the network module.  I have not taken the time to connect mine yet, but will someday get around to it.  The Easy Touch was cheaper than the Pentair Intelli-branded ones, and with the combination of capabilities from ISY you could achieve pretty much anything, but still leave a reliable controller if you yanked your automation out.

 

I'd like to know if what you suggest actually functions as claimed. Will you post back after installation? Detailing what you did will help, including any tips.

[buhie]

Thanks for all the suggestions.   A few different paths to really consider.  Soldering thermostats does sound a bit out of my comfort zone...! 

 

Searching back through previous posts looks like the Intermatic PE653 gets a pretty good wrap and can interface to the ISY, and on Amazon for about $375. I don't like the idea of having to wire the pumps to the controller instead of just using the Insteon plug-in devices, but I guess everything's a compromise....

 

If anyone has a recent experience with the Intermatic rather than the more expensive Pentair/Jandy products would be great to hear. 

 

Thanks again.

[ScottAvery]

I'd like to know if what you suggest actually functions as claimed. Will you post back after installation? Detailing what you did will help, including any tips.

The thread was archived so I had a bear of a time finding it.  It was this discussion that led me to choose my equipment:

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/5970-how-to-pentair-easytouchintellitouch-poolspa-controller/

[ScottAvery]

Thanks for all the suggestions.   A few different paths to really consider.  Soldering thermostats does sound a bit out of my comfort zone...! 

 

Searching back through previous posts looks like the Intermatic PE653 gets a pretty good wrap and can interface to the ISY, and on Amazon for about $375. I don't like the idea of having to wire the pumps to the controller instead of just using the Insteon plug-in devices, but I guess everything's a compromise....

 

If anyone has a recent experience with the Intermatic rather than the more expensive Pentair/Jandy products would be great to hear. 

 

Thanks again.

That Intermatic is probably fine, though they offer more complete systems that have a full breaker box and independent relays for not much more money.  I chose Pentair because my other stuff was Pentair.  As for preferring to use insteon plug ins, remember you will need a weather safe place to plug them in and that they are not very durable.  The 220V insteon relays have poor reputations.  Also note that relays controlling high amperage motors tend to burn out/seize, which is the advantage of having a controller with independent, replaceable relays, making it a $10 repair instead of $375.  I have had 1 seize in 4 years.

 

You also have county code to deal with, almost assuredly needing a shutoff at the pump, so you would at least need a switch there.