RichTJ99 Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 Hi, Where do I start? I am an insteon user who bought the PLC/Homeseer combo package on SH. Since Homeseer has stopped development on their plugin, I ended up buying an ISY IR from smarthome & they were nice enough to swap my PLC with a PLM. To be honest, I am not entirely sure what to do with the ISY & how to make it all work together. I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction. Right now, I have homeseer handling a number of events. I also am using a few plugins: Wapseer – remote log into homeseer via cell phone ACRF plug in – using W800 in conjunction with various X10 (DS10a, hawkeyes) for motion. A number of Blade Homeseer scripts as well. I think I might not be getting perfect usage as I don’t really understand dimming levels (mine all are just working out of the box), I have a few events (such as on a keylinc the A button turns all lights out, except BR fan, Hall light switched to 20%, etc. If my front door DS10A sees motion & its after sundown, the exterior lights all turn on for 10 minutes then shut off. I could go on & on but it sounds like I can have Homeseer not do some of these items, or that the ISY will do it all faster maybe? I admit, I bought the ISY without really understanding what it can do. Any help would be great. Thanks, Rich
Michel Kohanim Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 Hi Rich, Welcome to our world and, as you shall personally experience, we have a wonderful community who will help you get to where you want with ISY and your INSTEON equipment. In my view, the first and most important thing that you will have to understand is the concept of Scene. If you get Scenes understood, you are 1/2 way there. 1. Here is a great tutorial on Scenes ( http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/ ... h_tutorial ) 2. And here are the instructions for creating scenes ( http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/ ... te_a_Scene ) 3. An example for creating a three way ( http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/ ... ay_Circuit ) When you are done with scenes, then you need to learn ISY programs. But, let's start with scenes first! With kind regards, Michel Hi, Where do I start? I am an insteon user who bought the PLC/Homeseer combo package on SH. Since Homeseer has stopped development on their plugin, I ended up buying an ISY IR from smarthome & they were nice enough to swap my PLC with a PLM. To be honest, I am not entirely sure what to do with the ISY & how to make it all work together. I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction. Right now, I have homeseer handling a number of events. I also am using a few plugins: Wapseer – remote log into homeseer via cell phone ACRF plug in – using W800 in conjunction with various X10 (DS10a, hawkeyes) for motion. A number of Blade Homeseer scripts as well. I think I might not be getting perfect usage as I don’t really understand dimming levels (mine all are just working out of the box), I have a few events (such as on a keylinc the A button turns all lights out, except BR fan, Hall light switched to 20%, etc. If my front door DS10A sees motion & its after sundown, the exterior lights all turn on for 10 minutes then shut off. I could go on & on but it sounds like I can have Homeseer not do some of these items, or that the ISY will do it all faster maybe? I admit, I bought the ISY without really understanding what it can do. Any help would be great. Thanks, Rich
RichTJ99 Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 Michael, Thanks for getting back to me. I am still a little fuzzy on the group vs scene but I will keep reading. Im more confused on how or what I should be doing with Homeseer Integration. To me, from my reading it looks like the ISY is a device that will allow me (from the comfort of my couch/laptop) to create links between all my insteon devices. For example, my front door has a an insteon switch that is linked (by me manually) to three other outside switches, so at the front door, one switch turns on all the outside lights I linked to it. 1. Will the ISY allow me to do that from a PC instead of clicking, holding, flashing, etc? I have a Keylinc in my bedroom, button "A" sends a signal to Homeseer to turn all the lights out in the house. It takes a while for Homeseer to send all the off commands. 2. Can the ISY program that "A" button so it sends a signal directly to the lights (IE they are all linked)? Bypassing Homeseer entirely? 3. Can the ISY be programmed to send an "off" command to all the lights in my home at say 2am? 4. How does this integrate into Homeseer? Does the ISY send homeseer the lighting status? I have a bunch of other questions, but let me start here. Thanks, Rich
Michel Kohanim Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Hi Rich, My pleasure! 1. Will the ISY allow me to do that from a PC instead of clicking, holding, flashing, etc? Yes. I have a Keylinc in my bedroom, button "A" sends a signal to Homeseer to turn all the lights out in the house. It takes a while for Homeseer to send all the off commands. 2. Can the ISY program that "A" button so it sends a signal directly to the lights (IE they are all linked)? Bypassing Homeseer entirely? Yes. 3. Can the ISY be programmed to send an "off" command to all the lights in my home at say 2am? Yes. 4. How does this integrate into Homeseer? Does the ISY send homeseer the lighting status? Yes. But, you need the ISY/HomeSeer plugin ( http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=1533 ) With kind regards, Michel
RichTJ99 Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 Michael, So Homeseer tells the ISY what to do based on events, the ISY tells the PLM what to do & it gets done - right? It seems that the ISY can do most of what Homeseer does (certain lights on at sundown, all lights out at 2am, etc)? What is homeseer doing that the ISY currently cant do? Speech & support for wireless X10 devices with a W800? Is that planned in the future? THanks, Rich
Michel Kohanim Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Hello Rich, As you pointed out, ISY cannot do speech or work "directly" with wireless X10 devices. We do not yet have any plans to support either of these technologies. With kind regards, Michel Michael, So Homeseer tells the ISY what to do based on events, the ISY tells the PLM what to do & it gets done - right? It seems that the ISY can do most of what Homeseer does (certain lights on at sundown, all lights out at 2am, etc)? What is homeseer doing that the ISY currently cant do? Speech & support for wireless X10 devices with a W800? Is that planned in the future? THanks, Rich
RichTJ99 Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 Michael, So is the main idea behind this to control the lighting itself? An easy to use system that allows for setting up groups (a cluster of lights) & Scenes (the settings of those scenes based on ramp levels & light levels)? Is there a plan for a web based admin console instead of a Java based one? Also, does the Windows Mobile admin console work in Windows Mobile 6.1? Thanks, Rich
Michel Kohanim Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Hi Rich, The main idea behind ISY is an affordable, self contained/standalone, web based, remotely accessible energy management system. This is not limited to lights only. ISY is accessible from any mobile device including Windows Mobile since the mobile interface is 100% HTML (no Java). Due to the complexity of what we do in the Admin Console, we would have to use a rather thick client be it Java, ActiveX, Air, SilverLight, etc. With kind regards, Michel Michael, So is the main idea behind this to control the lighting itself? An easy to use system that allows for setting up groups (a cluster of lights) & Scenes (the settings of those scenes based on ramp levels & light levels)? Is there a plan for a web based admin console instead of a Java based one? Also, does the Windows Mobile admin console work in Windows Mobile 6.1? Thanks, Rich
RichTJ99 Posted December 13, 2008 Author Posted December 13, 2008 Michael, So the HTML version of the site for mobile devices, is this more of an "on/off/status" page & the Java version is a place to make changes page? I currently have Homeseer & a PLC working semi OK. I am looking to swap the PLM & ISY into the mix. What would be the best way to do this? 1. Backup data in Homeseer. 2. Unplug PLC 3. Plug in PLM 4. Plug in ISY Can I backup the current Link setup using the ISY in case I decided to use the Homeseer / PLC combo at some future point? If so, how do I do that? Next I would want to wipe everything out to start fresh. Im not exactly sure how to do that or if I should do that (from some reading it sounds like a fresh start would be smart. How do I add new items to the ISY? Do I put the ISY into some detection mode & then tap the switch I want to use? I am having a hard time understanding how to find data in the Wiki (not just yours, any Wiki). I cant seem to find the data I need. Any suggestion on how to navigate that? Thanks, Rich
Michel Kohanim Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 Hello Rich, I think the best thing to do is to leave your PLC in there for now. 1. Plug in your ISY 2. Plug in your PLM 3. Add devices to your ISY You can add devices into ISY in two ways: 1. Link Management->Start Linking and then tap link all your devices (I recommend starting small) 2. Link Management->New INSTEON Device in which case you will have to know the address of your device In both cases, you would want to choose the first option (remove existing links) as this will reduce a lot of problems down the line. Also, if you run into any questions/issues, please call our tech support line and we'll walk you through it. With kind regards, Michel Michael, So the HTML version of the site for mobile devices, is this more of an "on/off/status" page & the Java version is a place to make changes page? I currently have Homeseer & a PLC working semi OK. I am looking to swap the PLM & ISY into the mix. What would be the best way to do this? 1. Backup data in Homeseer. 2. Unplug PLC 3. Plug in PLM 4. Plug in ISY Can I backup the current Link setup using the ISY in case I decided to use the Homeseer / PLC combo at some future point? If so, how do I do that? Next I would want to wipe everything out to start fresh. Im not exactly sure how to do that or if I should do that (from some reading it sounds like a fresh start would be smart. How do I add new items to the ISY? Do I put the ISY into some detection mode & then tap the switch I want to use? I am having a hard time understanding how to find data in the Wiki (not just yours, any Wiki). I cant seem to find the data I need. Any suggestion on how to navigate that? Thanks, Rich
RichTJ99 Posted December 16, 2008 Author Posted December 16, 2008 Hi, After a long talk on the phone with Darrel I think I am in a good place for my testing. In my Laundry room, I have one Switchlinc Dimmer (Dimmer A) to a light & I also have a second Switchlinc dimmer (Dimmer on another light in my laundry room. I also have a non load keylinc pad (which used to be a three way switch in that same room). Keypad button A turns on the Appliancelinc in the garage (which has lighting). So, if you turn on any switch (Dimmer A, Dimmer B, Keylinc On) it turns both lights on & off. If you press button A on the keypad it turns the appliance linc on. So I added one device which spidered to the other three. I am confused by what I have in terms of scenes & other items. Does this make sense to other people (seeing Scenes - why are they named Scene 8 when there is nothing else there)? Thanks, Rich
RichTJ99 Posted December 17, 2008 Author Posted December 17, 2008 Hi, I am realizing that after playing with the ISY for a while I have a number of other questions as well. 1. Does the Intsteon Firmware (of their devices) matter with the ISY - do certain versions have more features than others? 2. What is the difference between Fast on & ON - Why do some devices only go on for Fast On? 3. Can I change the ISY Internal IP address & Port? 4. Where is the WM5/WM6 PPC Application for the ISY? 5. I have a two places where my Insteon switch (One KPL, One SLR) are not controling a load (the are linked to other load bearing devices) - Should these be controllers or responders? 6. When I set a ramp rate for my dining room (example) to 8.5 seconds, when I click on it in the ISY it ramps, but when I touch the local switch, it just turns on fast. How do I fix that? Thanks, Rich
MikeB Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 1. Does the Intsteon Firmware (of their devices) matter with the ISY - do certain versions have more features than others? Yes, some firmware revisions can have a major impact on the features of a device. 2. What is the difference between Fast on & ON - Why do some devices only go on for Fast On? An ON command is like pressing the button of a switch - it turns the device on to a pre-defined level at a pre-defined ramp rate. A FAST ON command is like double-tapping the button of a switch - it turns the device on to its brightest level at the quickest ramp rate (.1 seconds). 3. Can I change the ISY Internal IP address & Port? Yes, through the command line interface via TELNET: http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/ ... o_Your_ISY 4. Where is the WM5/WM6 PPC Application for the ISY? There is none that I'm aware of, but you are able to control your lighting through WM5/WM6's web browser via the ISY's HTML interface. 5. I have a two places where my Insteon switch (One KPL, One SLR) are not controling a load (the are linked to other load bearing devices) - Should these be controllers or responders? Whether or not a device controls a load is irrelevant. When creating a scene and adding a device, that device is a controller if you want its button press to activate that scene. If you only want that button to RESPOND to a scene, that button is a responder. Say, for example, a scene called "ALL OFF". You might add every device in your home to the scene as RESPONDERs. But, you have a single KeypadLinc button near your home's exit that you want to use to trigger that scene. That button would be added as a CONTROLLER. 6. When I set a ramp rate for my dining room (example) to 8.5 seconds, when I click on it in the ISY it ramps, but when I touch the local switch, it just turns on fast. How do I fix that? You may have to reboot the switch. Simply pull the air gap tab out for 5-10 seconds, then pop it back into place to its resting position (but do not hold it down).
RichTJ99 Posted December 17, 2008 Author Posted December 17, 2008 1. Does the Intsteon Firmware (of their devices) matter with the ISY - do certain versions have more features than others? Yes, some firmware revisions can have a major impact on the features of a device. Is there a list of what firmware revisions can handle which features? I want to make sure i am not missing something good. I am mostly curious about KPL, SL. (Mostly) 2. What is the difference between Fast on & ON - Why do some devices only go on for Fast On? An ON command is like pressing the button of a switch - it turns the device on to a pre-defined level at a pre-defined ramp rate. A FAST ON command is like double-tapping the button of a switch - it turns the device on to its brightest level at the quickest ramp rate (.1 seconds). Any ideas why some SL's start with On & others with Fast On? BTW, I dont know what double tapping the bottom of a switch would do (it does nothing on mine)? 3. Can I change the ISY Internal IP address & Port? Yes, through the command line interface via TELNET: http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/ ... o_Your_ISY I started by just enabling Internet access in the Java based admin applet, I get an error that it cant connect. I then telnet'ed in & I changed the IP to my desired internal IP, Netmask was 255.255.255.0, Gateway is my router (192.168.1.1), DNS is the one my router tells me (I use it on a static IP PC as well) - Still no internet. I also didnt see anywhere to change the port. 4. Where is the WM5/WM6 PPC Application for the ISY? There is none that I'm aware of, but you are able to control your lighting through WM5/WM6's web browser via the ISY's HTML interface. Thanks, that makes much more sense. I will play with that once I get the unit online. 5. I have a two places where my Insteon switch (One KPL, One SLR) are not controling a load (the are linked to other load bearing devices) - Should these be controllers or responders? Whether or not a device controls a load is irrelevant. When creating a scene and adding a device, that device is a controller if you want its button press to activate that scene. If you only want that button to RESPOND to a scene, that button is a responder. Say, for example, a scene called "ALL OFF". You might add every device in your home to the scene as RESPONDERs. But, you have a single KeypadLinc button near your home's exit that you want to use to trigger that scene. That button would be added as a CONTROLLER. Thank you very much, that is a great explanation & actually its exactly what I want it to do. Is it an issue having multiple lights in the same scene (the exit scene in this case)? If Entry KPL A turns off all the lights, does this mean when any light is on in the house, KPL A is lighted? I have the following plans: 1. Entry KPL A turns off all lights & turns on three Living Room Lights. 2. Exit KPL A turns off all lights & turns on three Living Room Lights. 3. BR KPL A Turns off all lights except MBR fan & Attic fan 4. BR KPL C turns off/on all lights in house (panic mode) but MBR is at 50%. Does this mean that if any light is on that all KPL 'A's will be lighted? 6. When I set a ramp rate for my dining room (example) to 8.5 seconds, when I click on it in the ISY it ramps, but when I touch the local switch, it just turns on fast. How do I fix that? You may have to reboot the switch. Simply pull the air gap tab out for 5-10 seconds, then pop it back into place to its resting position (but do not hold it down). To set the ramp rate of the device itself - is that different from a scene, or must ramp rates be set in scenes? Thansk for your help, Rich
MikeB Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 Is there a list of what firmware revisions can handle which features? I want to make sure i am not missing something good. I am mostly curious about KPL, SL. (Mostly) No, unfortuantely not that I'm aware of. If you have a specific question post it up and maybe someone can help. Most capability differences are with KeypadLincs. Any ideas why some SL's start with On & others with Fast On? BTW, I dont know what double tapping the bottom of a switch would do (it does nothing on mine)? Double-tapping the bottom performs a FAST OFF (turns off with the quickest possible ramp rate). I started by just enabling Internet access in the Java based admin applet, I get an error that it cant connect. This tries to configure your router for you using UPnP. If your router does not support this feature, or the feature is turned off, it will not work. I then telnet'ed in & I changed the IP to my desired internal IP, Netmask was 255.255.255.0, Gateway is my router (192.168.1.1), DNS is the one my router tells me (I use it on a static IP PC as well) - Still no internet. Have you created the necessary rules to forward port 443 (HTTPS) to the ISY's static IP? I also didnt see anywhere to change the port. What ISY firmware are you running? It is command CWP via telnet. If Entry KPL A turns off all the lights, does this mean when any light is on in the house, KPL A is lighted? No, that kind of intelligence/functionality is not built-in to the devices. HOWEVER, you can do that easily with ISY programs. Here is a link to a good discussion on it: http://forum.universal-devices.com/view ... ight=floor
RichTJ99 Posted December 17, 2008 Author Posted December 17, 2008 Mike, Thanks for being so helpful in straightening me out. I had a few more questions: 1. 2. What is the difference between Fast on & ON - Why do some devices only go on for Fast On? An ON command is like pressing the button of a switch - it turns the device on to a pre-defined level at a pre-defined ramp rate. A FAST ON command is like double-tapping the button of a switch - it turns the device on to its brightest level at the quickest ramp rate (.1 seconds). I have never set ramp rates before & didnt know you could tap or double tap a switch. When playing with ramp rates, should that be done at the device level or the scene level? 2. 4. Where is the WM5/WM6 PPC Application for the ISY? There is none that I'm aware of, but you are able to control your lighting through WM5/WM6's web browser via the ISY's HTML interface. I went to my page: http://192.168.1.105:60158 & its saying I need java but I am using a WM6 PPC (Treo 800w). Any ideas on how to get the to the regular HTML Interface? 3. 5. I have a two places where my Insteon switch (One KPL, One SLR) are not controling a load (the are linked to other load bearing devices) - Should these be controllers or responders? Whether or not a device controls a load is irrelevant. When creating a scene and adding a device, that device is a controller if you want its button press to activate that scene. If you only want that button to RESPOND to a scene, that button is a responder. Say, for example, a scene called "ALL OFF". You might add every device in your home to the scene as RESPONDERs. But, you have a single KeypadLinc button near your home's exit that you want to use to trigger that scene. That button would be added as a CONTROLLER. So in my kitchen I have two lights (Table / Sink). Both were manually cross linked to each other. Are they both controllers & Responders? Is a Controller capable of being a load device as well (EG: Exit SL turns garage light off & runs scene to turn everything off). 4. Is it possible to have a delay such as KPL A is the controller to a no load device that shuts off all lights in the house. Can I have it that 10 seconds after I press the buttons the whole hosue goes dark, or (even better) that it takes 60 seconds for the lights to all ramp down to 0 (assuming the relays go right out in that case)? 5. Quote: I started by just enabling Internet access in the Java based admin applet, I get an error that it cant connect. This tries to configure your router for you using UPnP. If your router does not support this feature, or the feature is turned off, it will not work. Quote: I then telnet'ed in & I changed the IP to my desired internal IP, Netmask was 255.255.255.0, Gateway is my router (192.168.1.1), DNS is the one my router tells me (I use it on a static IP PC as well) - Still no internet. Have you created the necessary rules to forward port 443 (HTTPS) to the ISY's static IP? Do I need to use port 443? I ask because I have other open ports from my ISP i would prefer to use (443 is in use by another application I use). When I changed my info to 192.168.1.150, 255.255.255.0, 192.168.1.1, DNS set up, shouldnt the device have seen it was able to be online? Or does the ISY not actually go online (meaning someone just comes in to connect to it). 6. What ISY firmware are you running? It is command CWP via telnet. Im not sure where to find the firmware (my ISY-99 IR is a (1030)). CWP did not work Product: (1030) ISY 99i 256 IR App: Insteon_UD99 Platform: ISY-C-99 Version: 1.0.0 Build Date: 2007-12-17-22:37:34 Other Services: - Programs Enabled - IR Enabled Thanks, Rich
MikeB Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 I have never set ramp rates before & didnt know you could tap or double tap a switch. When playing with ramp rates, should that be done at the device level or the scene level? Depends what you want to do. If you want the change to affect only that device when it is pressed on, you do it at the device. If you want to setup a scene with different settings you can also do that. I went to my page: http://192.168.1.105:60158 & its saying I need java but I am using a WM6 PPC (Treo 800w). Any ideas on how to get the to the regular HTML Interface? Sounds like you might be using an old firmware version. I would upgrade to at least 2.6.8. So in my kitchen I have two lights (Table / Sink). Both were manually cross linked to each other. Are they both controllers & Responders? If they were crosslinked, they are both controllers. Controllers are always responders as well. Is a Controller capable of being a load device as well (EG: Exit SL turns garage light off & runs scene to turn everything off). Sure. You'd have a Switchlinc controlling your garage light. You'd create a scene called ALL OFF containing all the devices you want to turn off as RESPONDERs, then add the garage Switchlinc in as a CONTROLLER of that scene. Is it possible to have a delay such as KPL A is the controller to a no load device that shuts off all lights in the house. Can I have it that 10 seconds after I press the buttons the whole hosue goes dark, Absolutely, but you'd have to create a short ISY program to do it. You'd create a scene called EXIT (or whatever), and add all your RESPONDERs to that scene. Since you're using an ISY program to control these scene, you DON'T want to put that KPL button in the scene as a CONTROLLER. Instead, you'd write a program like this: If Control 'KPL Button A' is switched Off Then Wait 10 seconds Set Scene 'Exit' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') The only disadvantage to using an ISY program is that the ISY needs to be running for this to work. If your ISY is ever offline for any reason, the button would not work. There's also a slight delay (1 second or so), but it would be unnoticeable because of your 10 second wait. or (even better) that it takes 60 seconds for the lights to all ramp down to 0 (assuming the relays go right out in that case)? Sure. If you wanted to keep the WAIT, you could do the same as above except edit the scene properties and set a 1 minute ramp rate on any devices you want to go off slowly. If you no longer need the WAIT, then skip the program and simply add your KPL button into the scene as a controller. Within the scene, click that controller and then set the ramp rates on your responders as needed. Do I need to use port 443? I ask because I have other open ports from my ISP i would prefer to use (443 is in use by another application I use). No, you can change the port via TELNET. When I changed my info to 192.168.1.150, 255.255.255.0, 192.168.1.1, DNS set up, shouldnt the device have seen it was able to be online? Or does the ISY not actually go online (meaning someone just comes in to connect to it). I find that this is a bit confusing for most new ISY users. The only thing that "Internet Access Disabled" means is that the ISY did not use UPnP to configure your router automatically to allow external access to it. If you setup the ISY with a static IP and configure your router to forward the needed ports to it the ISY will still show "Internet Access Disabled". There's no way to tell your external access is working without actually testing it. As for outgoing access to the web, if you set your IP address/etc. correctly it should be good to go (for sending notifications, etc.). As far as I know there's no way to test it without actually trying to use notifications or something that requires the ISY to have access to the web. Im not sure where to find the firmware (my ISY-99 IR is a (1030)). You are running an older firmware. I recommend you upgrade to 2.6.8 for right now. Newer versions are still a bit unstable. http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=1773
NewTech Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Hi Rich, Welcome to our world and, as you shall personally experience, we have a wonderful community who will help you get to where you want with ISY and your INSTEON equipment. I realize the original date of this post is somewhat outdated but none-the-less I cannot say enough for the time spent with me, a rookie, to learn the ISY. Michel went far beyond what I EVER expected from any company in today's society. He definitely saved an ISY from being returned due to my frustration with the unit. I am now VERY pleased with the ISY and even more pleased with the satisfaction of the customer service department at Universal Devices. Mike R.
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