Blackbird Posted November 17, 2015 Posted November 17, 2015 Just wondering if I can use these thermostats with ISY and Insteon. Honeywell RET97A5E Wi-Fi Smart Thermostat http://www.honeywellstore.com/store/products/wi-fi-smart-thermostat-with-color-display-ret97a5e1001u.htm Honeywell Lyric Wifi Smart Thermostat http://www.honeywellstore.com/store/products/lyric-thermostat-wifi-smart-control-rch9300wf.htm and the NEST Im most interested in the 1st one. If these are compatible, does it require an upgrade to the isy? Thanks
g1of4 Posted November 17, 2015 Posted November 17, 2015 There is also the Ecobee to consider. I prefer the Ecobee to the Nest, and use it with several remote wireless sensors. I have it integrated in my home automation, but not directly through the ISY.
larryllix Posted November 17, 2015 Posted November 17, 2015 None of them support Insteon. ISY may talk to some via the Network Resource module but responses will not be seen as ISY doesn't understand the language. Much work has been done with Venstar T7900 by some here and the Network Resource module can control it directly, somewhat, but this requires a RPi as a bridge to read or get responses. Search for threads about this in this forum.
madcodger Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 Lack of support for popular thermostats is, in my opinion, the Achilles heel of Universal Devices products (i.e., the ISY). Many requests over the years, but no love from UDI on the matter. They apparently do not see it as a commercial opportunity, and are unwilling to devote resources to it. Biggest disappointment I have in an otherwise great device.
larryllix Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 Smarthome does produce three native Insteon units that talk to ISY directly.
MWareman Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 Plus there are several zwave thermostats that also directly talk to a zwave enabled ISY. Plenty of options. Best to stay away from proprietary thermostats if you want to integrate them into a home automation system with minimal pain. Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk
Teken Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Lack of support for popular thermostats is, in my opinion, the Achilles heel of Universal Devices products (i.e., the ISY). Many requests over the years, but no love from UDI on the matter. They apparently do not see it as a commercial opportunity, and are unwilling to devote resources to it. Biggest disappointment I have in an otherwise great device. To be fair to UDI lots of this is due to the fact most of these TSTAT's insist upon providing access via cloud hosted services. Also, some of these companies do not offer full access to the units API. Those that offer a API offer limited access or features that are too basic to the average HA guy. Keeping in mind the ISY does in fact support all Insteon TSTAT's, more than a few Z-Wave units, and one ZigBee model. But, more to your point it would be great to see more resources directed toward popular TSTAT's so long as they meet the requirement of open API access and don't rely on the cloud. These two requirements sadly, reduces the chances UDI could or would be willing to spend time to develop support. Just my counter point on that . . . Edited November 18, 2015 by Teken
madcodger Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 I continue to maintain that home automation companies are their own worst enemy. Thermostats like Nest do rely on the cloud, and that seems to be the direction of consumer electronics for the home. HA enthusiasts kick and scream about this (myself included, at times), but it's the tide, and we will not win that battle. Instead, we have all these little niche devices. Each has its own little following, many are as buggy as a summer picnic, and we never get the traction for things to go mass market. We thus remain comparatively tiny little cells of largely hobbyist tinkerers, while the larger market pats us on the head and moves on. I get that UDI also does commercial application work, and they have every right to make whatever decisions they want for their own company. But good night, it would be nice to interface with what is probably the world's most popular "smart" thermostat (and a darn good one overall, I might add). Temperature is kind of an important building variable... We can't make use of it or control it with our ISYs using the most popular consumer devices, and I continue to find that both odd and frustrating.
Teken Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 I continue to maintain that home automation companies are their own worst enemy. Thermostats like Nest do rely on the cloud, and that seems to be the direction of consumer electronics for the home. HA enthusiasts kick and scream about this (myself included, at times), but it's the tide, and we will not win that battle. Instead, we have all these little niche devices. Each has its own little following, many are as buggy as a summer picnic, and we never get the traction for things to go mass market. We thus remain comparatively tiny little cells of largely hobbyist tinkerers, while the larger market pats us on the head and moves on. I get that UDI also does commercial application work, and they have every right to make whatever decisions they want for their own company. But good night, it would be nice to interface with what is probably the world's most popular "smart" thermostat (and a darn good one overall, I might add). Temperature is kind of an important building variable... We can't make use of it or control it with our ISYs using the most popular consumer devices, and I continue to find that both odd and frustrating. Absolutely agree on these points made above . . .
larryllix Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 HA people want to adapt devices into their 'controlled' world, that were not created for HA. Most of these thermostats were created to capture a niche market with hopes of remote control and better home comfort only. The twain weren't suppose to meet. The HA market is very small and we are trying to control products from companies that don't want to be absorbed. I have some very high-tech guests and none of them would install HA even when given to them free. When staying here, they will unplug any lamp that comes on when they didn't switch it. Most people just roll their eyes when things happen automatically. These are the same people that never select a restaurant or home delivery pizza place unless they have an online menu or online reservation system they can access on their mobile device.
Teken Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 HA people want to adapt devices into their 'controlled' world, that were not created for HA. Most of these thermostats were created to capture a niche market with hopes of remote control and better home comfort only. The twain weren't suppose to meet. The HA market is very small and we are trying to control products from companies that don't want to be absorbed. I have some very high-tech guests and none of them would install HA even when given to them free. When staying here, they will unplug any lamp that comes on when they didn't switch it. Most people just roll their eyes when things happen automatically. These are the same people that never select a restaurant or home delivery pizza place unless they have an online menu or online reservation system they can access on their mobile device. Not to take this thread too far into a tangent but I tend to agree with the above as well. Given all of the hoopla of Apple Home Kit, and various other HA protocols the home automation industry continues to be a very small market place. There are lots of examples from Control 4 / Creston, to installation we all can relate to which use Insteon, Z-Wave, ZigBee, X-10, UPB, etc. Many people that I have seen basically fall into two basic categories once they have tasted the HA tech. The first buy a small starter kit and pretty much don't move past this and essentially the novelty is lost on them. Next are those that see value in incorporating the next level of HA into their lives not only to make it fun but useful. Afterwards there are those like us that see greater potential not only to make our lives better but to help manage energy consumption, efficiency, and long term cost(s). At this point its very much a integrated lifestyle with the various HA systems in the home. Having the ability to harness basic elements of the home that add safety, security, and over all status awareness is simply outstanding for me and for millions of others. Having said all of this over the years I have moved to a more conservative view and approach about HA and what role it plays in my home and lifestyle. With the advent of every increasing threats of hackers, and Government spying in all aspects of a persons lives with out their knowledge. I have purposely removed key systems from being controlled by HA elements. Even though I still monitor them they have no direct method to impose their will onto another sub system. With so many companies now being acquired by massive companies like Apple, Samsung, Google, etc. Letting corporations monetize and profit from knowing your habits along with status of occupancy. Never mind having the direct ability to over ride a persons TSTAT or any other connected cloud hosted service is simply not worth the privileged of remote access and integration with HA. You can mark my words the very first time we see a You Tube video of a drop cam, nest tstat, smoke, unit all indicate the movement, travels, and occupancy of a home owner. You will see the HA industry implode onto itself . . . The reality is TSTAT's have been in use for decades and they have operated just fine with out any user interaction. I can count on one hand the people I know that have on a daily basis had to operate their TSTAT. Those that do, do so out of that geeky want and not so much because of the need. The bulk of it is simply a fad that will in time wear off like that shiny squish toy the dog used to bite on. *Hey look, squirrel* Ha . . .
larryllix Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 Yeah, operating your thermostat remotely seems pretty cool but for what? While building my current home about 200 km from my existing (at that time) home I used the setback thermostat to an advantage to save $energy$. I would set my thermostat to about 55 degrees F and then on late Friday set it up to about 68 degrees so that when I got home from building my home would be semi-heated and I could manually take over the control for the weekend if I was staying there. This all seemed to work well for that winter but there can be a big down side to this. When you raise the temperature of a home without any bathing, showering, cooking, sweating and other methods of raising the humidity, it dries out the framework eventually, as the humidity drops too low. This 20 year old house that had all the floors glued and screwed and never had hardly a squeak or pop turned into a mess. Walking across almost any floor I could hear popping and snapping where the floor sheeting was separating from the twisting floor joists. This never comes back once wood twists and glue and screws break. As the grandstand event, toward the end of that winter, I noticed a piece of expensive urethane (was the new high tech at the time)flooring had lifted and torn away from a door frame. Investigating I noticed that an interior door frame, 20 years old, had twisted and caught the flooring vinyl, tearing it. Repairing this I glued the flooring back down, attempting to hide the tear and got some long screws to fasten the door frame back to the 2x6 framing. As I tightened the long screws in, pulling the pine jamm back into place, it broke from end to end with an angular break right across the 6 inch width. More repairs and painting in a panic. The place was listed for sale at the time. In the end, I have learned that setting your thermostat back too much can be detrimental to your home, and furniture too. I have learned not to take your thermostat off deep setback without a humidifier running to keep the humidity levels up. I had this house built and personally insured good construction techniques for a quiet squeakless house. I ruined it by not paying attention to temperature change side effects. Somebody else owns it now.
mwester Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 All very good points above! It surprises me that so many people pamper, for example, their automobiles by parking them in a garage and by letting them idle for a while to "warm up" before hitting the road on a frigid winter day, etc -- but they abuse their homes by putting a massive set-back on the thermostat and putting a huge temperature stress on their biggest investment. False economy - not only is that not really saving any energy, it's also (as noted above) potentially damaging to the house itself. We should be using home automation to monitor and maintain a constant, consistent in-home environment instead.
Teken Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 Yeah, operating your thermostat remotely seems pretty cool but for what? While building my current home about 200 km from my existing (at that time) home I used the setback thermostat to an advantage to save $energy$. I would set my thermostat to about 55 degrees F and then on late Friday set it up to about 68 degrees so that when I got home from building my home would be semi-heated and I could manually take over the control for the weekend if I was staying there. This all seemed to work well for that winter but there can be a big down side to this. When you raise the temperature of a home without any bathing, showering, cooking, sweating and other methods of raising the humidity, it dries out the framework eventually, as the humidity drops too low. This 20 year old house that had all the floors glued and screwed and never had hardly a squeak or pop turned into a mess. Walking across almost any floor I could hear popping and snapping where the floor sheeting was separating from the twisting floor joists. This never comes back once wood twists and glue and screws break. As the grandstand event, toward the end of that winter, I noticed a piece of expensive urethane (was the new high tech at the time)flooring had lifted and torn away from a door frame. Investigating I noticed that an interior door frame, 20 years old, had twisted and caught the flooring vinyl, tearing it. Repairing this I glued the flooring back down, attempting to hide the tear and got some long screws to fasten the door frame back to the 2x6 framing. As I tightened the long screws in, pulling the pine jamm back into place, it broke from end to end with an angular break right across the 6 inch width. More repairs and painting in a panic. The place was listed for sale at the time. In the end, I have learned that setting your thermostat back too much can be detrimental to your home, and furniture too. I have learned not to take your thermostat off deep setback without a humidifier running to keep the humidity levels up. I had this house built and personally insured good construction techniques for a quiet squeakless house. I ruined it by not paying attention to temperature change side effects. Somebody else owns it now. Larry, That is an excellent example of going to far and what the negative outcomes will be. I believe in another related thread with Paul Bates I indicated how I *cheat* a little in the winter to fool the (human) into thinking its warmer than it is by keeping the humidity slightly higher during the long 7 month, cold, dry winters here. Thus far going on seven years in this custom home has been fantastic while balancing my energy consumption and the human factor. With respect to things moving around and shifting for me this past (2014) winter proved even with 50 plus piles driven 100 feet into the ground building on silt, clay, mud is a never ending battle with Mother Nature. Adjusting supporting teleposts are a seasonal thing for me moving forward due to heaving and frost that exceeds the 12 foot frost line.
Blackbird Posted November 19, 2015 Author Posted November 19, 2015 Don't forget the "cool factor" I am guilty of wanting these automations, out of convenience and that its cool to have
Blackbird Posted November 19, 2015 Author Posted November 19, 2015 Thanks guys for all the helpful replies, that Ecobee looks very good.
paulbates Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 Larry, That is an excellent example of going to far and what the negative outcomes will be. I believe in another related thread with Paul Bates I indicated how I *cheat* a little in the winter to fool the (human) into thinking its warmer than it is by keeping the humidity slightly higher during the long 7 month, cold, dry winters here. Agreed Teken It is certainly true that thermostat location, vent /damper adjustment and active humidity control are much bigger factors in comfort than brands of thermostat and remote control features.. and no matter how much you spend on a thermostat, it can't over come basic HVAC system issues. I will say for sure going to active humidification control, to overcome dry northern winters, made a noticeable difference health wise for us last year, and periodic fan cycle in "between" seasons as well to filter allergens out of the air. Paul
larryllix Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Don't forget the "cool factor" I am guilty of wanting these automations, out of convenience and that its cool to have Most of us are. That is what we are doing here! ooops! Did I post that out loud?
larryllix Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Agreed Teken It is certainly true that thermostat location, vent /damper adjustment and active humidity control are much bigger factors in comfort than brands of thermostat and remote control features.. and no matter how much you spend on a thermostat, it can't over come basic HVAC system issues. I will say for sure going to active humidification control, to overcome dry northern winters, made a noticeable difference health wise for us last year, and periodic fan cycle in "between" seasons as well to filter allergens out of the air. Paul Years back people would push humidifiers to save money on your heating bill by lowering the temperature and saving money on heat. Another forum on another forum contested this with one of the larger manufacturers and proved that it costs more to heat air and humidify it too as it takes calories to evaporate water. The humidifiers manufacturers don't advertise that anymore. I also find less sinus and skin problems with a higher humidity in the winter. As far as lowering your temperature, it may be true somewhat, but not enough to change the set point more than about 0.5c = 0.9F towards the end of the dry spell late winter. I do find the contrast in comfort (sweating) between sedentary activities and physical activities lower with higher humidity though.
stusviews Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 I can count on one hand the people I know that have on a daily basis had to operate their TSTAT. Those that do, do so out of that geeky want and not so much because of the need. I'm one of those who uses remote control of our thermostats nearly daily. In particular, there's a Dine Out button that changes the setting on all thermostats as well as lighting when we leave for dinner and resets them before we arrive home. The set back is small. I do it to save energy, not money. Our HVAC is efficient and takes only minutes to cool down or heat up the living space and second,. A tiny fraction of the time we take to dine. If there's a large discrepancy between between the exterior temperature and the thermostat set point, then I don't modify the thermostats' settings. Most people just roll their eyes when things happen automatically. These are the same people that never select a restaurant or home delivery pizza place unless they have an online menu or online reservation system they can access on their mobile device. Hey, we earn a $1.00 every time we make an on-line restaurant reservation. Because we dine out nearly every night, it doesn't take long to get that $20.00 dining check. All very good points above! It surprises me that so many people pamper, for example, their automobiles by parking them in a garage and by letting them idle for a while to "warm up" before hitting the road on a frigid winter day, etc I'm more amazed that someone will leave 10's of thousands of dollars worth of stuff on the street because their garage is filled with $500 worth of junk.
Teken Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 When I first moved into our brand new home one of the first appliances we bought was a dehumidifier for the basement. Our POCO at that time (she) edumecated Mr. Teken that our first year and a half worth of heating / cooling would be double to triple due to the extreme humidity being generated by the curing basement foundation walls. Armed with those facts it required double to triple the energy to heat up moist damp air that exceeded 75% humidity. It really was a no brainier to run that brand new dehumidifier 24.7 for those 3-4 months until winter came upon us. By the time winter came to our local area with the combination of a dry cold season our basement was hovering around 55-60% relative humidity. Upstairs it was a very nice and comfortable 45-50% relative humidity. Almost 7 years later the home has been able to sustain that same value by basic active / passive heating, cooling, and proper use of air circulation via HA elements and venting control. This year my goal is to keep the basement around 45-50% like the upstairs as I am trying to see if it will help me reduce the amount of telepost adjustment which impacts the two entrance doors leading to the home. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent
larryllix Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 On a utility high bill complaint, we had a customer, irate as hell, was told by one of our residential energy advisors, in our office customer complaint dept., that once she delivered her new baby their heating costs and electricity bill would diminish as a baby would generate so much heat. The non-technical woman was not impressed and left the utility angry! Problem solved...she went away! ROFLMAO!! Yeah, we had to go out, prove her metering, and settle her down with some tech talk and let her hold the calculator.
Amigo Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Not too sure if this is the right thread for this, but I wanted to know if there are any thermostats, z-wave or Insteon that ISY has access to their internal scheduling, read/write? I want to be able to directly affect the schedules onboard the tstat to cange the times of the internal schedule from the ISY interface rather than having the schedule in ISY. Is this possible with any of the Tstats that UDI supports? For example, I wanted to buy a INSTEON 2441TH Thermostat but before I do I wanted to know this. I understand that I probably can disable the scheduling feature of the tstat and have the schedule in ISY toggle things, but if the other way above is a possibility, I find that a more elegant way of control. cheers, Amigo
stusviews Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Insteon thermostats require manually setting schedules for internal programming. You can turn the programming off or on remotely, but you cannot change it remotely.
Amigo Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Any z-wave thermostats in UDI line up that allows full access to their internal scheduling via ISY?
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