Fan Linc - Must use Fast Off to turn off?

[Teken]

I have a little bit of a head scratchier on my hands and would appreciate any insight / feedback. To start these are the current parameters I am working with.

 

994 Series Controller using the latest 4.4.1 Beta build. The Fan Linc shows up as .41 firmware in the ISY Admin Console. My goal was to integrate a new ceiling fan which operates perfectly fine in all aspects.

 

The initial HVAC regulation program I crafted was in pretty simple in all aspects in my mind which is seen below:

 

MBR Ceiling Fan - [iD 02B3][Parent 00D9]

 

If

        From     7:00:00AM

        To       8:00:00PM (same day)

    And Status  '01 Main Left / 08 Furnace' >= 500 Watts (Current Power)

 

Then

        Set Scene 'Master Bedroom Fan Low' On

        Wait  20 minutes 

        Set Scene 'Master Bedroom Fan Low' Fast Off

 

Else

   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

As seen above this program is as simple as it gets for a starter program. The fan comes on fine when the system detects the furnace is actually running based on the wattage defined.

 

The problem I saw was the fan never turned off after the time interval was met? Using the KPL in the bedroom turns the fan on-off with out issue. Using the Admin Console to turn the fan on-off again has no issues.

 

Going directly to the Fan Linc node again has no issue in operating the (low) fan speed or via the scene WTF?!?!? So at this point I'm standing there scratching my head thinking is this a noise issue? A link issue? Or a combination of the two?

 

Yet the Fan Linc operates perfectly fine in all other aspects but won't turn off via this program? Out of curiosity I recall someone saying way back in the time machine this was something they saw and the only solution they came up with was using the Fast Off command?

 

So, this begs to ask the question for my own personal edification. What is different in a Fast Off command when compared to a normal off? Is the payload larger, longer, stronger, ??

 

My initial thoughts prior to stumbling upon this solution was to install a snubber as per others who were seeing strange behavior in other related threads. I may very well purchase a few just for my personal arsenal of filters that may be required in other projects.

 

At the moment the program operates as intended using the Fast Off command. So this is the method I will use moving forward as it doesn't impact other objectives I have lined up later on.

 

Some insight about this odd behavior would be most welcome!

 

NOTE: I would love to include the level 3 logs but my system streams dozens of line of activity due to my energy module being in place.

 

 

[LeeG]

Without information about  'Master Bedroom Fan Low' nor the furnace load, my guess is the furnace load drops below 500 watts before the 20 minute Wait completes.  Of course any change in furnace load above 500 will restart the Wait.

[Teken]

Without information about  'Master Bedroom Fan Low' nor the furnace load, my guess is the furnace load drops below 500 watts before the 20 minute Wait completes.  Of course any change in furnace load above 500 will restart the Wait.

 

Hello LeeG,

 

This is something I considered for a brief moment but that is not the case. When the furnace is in full operations it consumes more than > 500 watts. This is why I set that threshold as anything above 500 watts would indicate its operating.

 

With respect to your second line  *Of course any change in furnace load above 500 will restart the Wait.*   I have never seen that happen before?

 

Are you sure that is the expected behavior?

[larryllix]

Any analogue conditions I have used will retriever the logic evaluation again even though the result doesn't change.

 

I'm afraid LeeG is correct.

[Teken]

Any analogue conditions I have used will retriever the logic evaluation again even though the result doesn't change.

 

I'm afraid LeeG is correct.

 

Your going to have to spoon feed me because I fell off and hit my head. So explain to me in plain simple words as I don't understand what is being said?

[larryllix]

When the power changes by a Watt the condition should be re-evaluated and if it is over your setting AND between your times True gets run again and the timer gets restarted.

 

Now if this happens and the wait is anxiously waiting to turn off the fan and the time frame runs out, or the power drops below your condition, guess what?

 

No turn off.

[larryllix]

Put your time frame condition and Then in an isolated program that is disabled.

 

Call it from the power level condition enabled.

 

Now the timer will always finish.

 

It's that inverted mountain air

[stusviews]

You can easily test Lee's conjecture. Create a program that give you an indication if the furnace draw drops below 500 watts. Then run your program with an Off, not a Fast Off. It the load drops before 20 minutes, then the program will evaluate as false and stop running.

[Teken]

When the power changes by a Watt the condition should be re-evaluated and if it is over your setting AND between your times True gets run again and the timer gets restarted.

 

Now if this happens and the wait is anxiously waiting to turn off the fan and the time frame runs out, guess what?

 

No turn off.

 

Really?!?!

 

I guess in about four hours we are going to find out won't we? I still don't understand how when I ran the (THEN) statement that using the normal scene it would not turn off.

 

Yet selecting the Fast Off command does turn off the fan linc? Something doesn't add up here and there has to be something more than the furnace just reevaluating causing the wait to keep running.

[Teken]

You can easily test Lee's conjecture. Create a program that give you an indication if the furnace draw drops below 500 watts. Then run your program with an Off, not a Fast Off. It the load drops before 20 minutes, then the program will evaluate as false and stop running.

 

Stu,

 

I will modify it to use the central exhaust as it consumes about 4XX watts and report back in a few moments.

[stusviews]

Hmm, if the load drops, then even Fast Off won't complete.

[larryllix]

Read my edit. I missed your latest.

[LeeG]

Can also check the link records in the FanLinc for the Ramp Rate.   The nature of the Fanlinc speed control could make the Off command appear to not work with a slow Ramp Rate.  So many unknowns at this point.  Without more facts there all guesses. 

[Teken]

I wanted to (hopefully) close off this topic as I believe another program in use works to meet the same intended goal. Below are the two programs that will be turn on the fan linc in the bedroom and will continue to operate for an additional 5 minutes after the furnace has turned off.

 

I've tested this program by adjusting the value(s) to detect when the central exhaust is turned on. In each case the ceiling fan came on and continued to run while the central exhaust was operating.

 

Good . . .

 

Next, I turned the central exhaust off and the expectation was to see the ceiling fan continue to operate for another XX minutes to help circulate the warm air in the building.

 

Results, success . . .

 

Here are the two programs which my partner in crime apostolakisl help me create back in the day.

 

MBR Ceiling Fan - Monitor - [iD 00D7][Parent 00D9]

 

If

        From     7:00:00AM

        To       8:00:00PM (same day)

    And Status  '01 Main Left / 08 Furnace' > 500 Watts (Current Power)

 

Then

        Send Notification to 'GMX' content 'GEM - Master Bedroom Fan '

        Run Program 'MBR Ceiling Fan - Watch Dog' (Else Path)

 

Else

        Set Scene 'Master Bedroom Fan Low' Off

 

 

=============================

=============================

 

MBR Ceiling Fan - Watch Dog - [iD 00D8][Parent 00D9]

 

If

   - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')

 

Then

        Set Scene 'Master Bedroom Fan Low' Off

        Enable Program 'MBR Ceiling Fan - Monitor'

 

Else

        Disable Program 'MBR Ceiling Fan - Monitor'

        Set Scene 'Master Bedroom Fan Low' On

        Wait  5 minutes 

        Enable Program 'MBR Ceiling Fan - Monitor'

        Run Program 'MBR Ceiling Fan - Monitor' (If)

 

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Sometimes I forget the use of IF, THEN, ELSE, programming can become extremely complex and attention to detail is a must when deployed. Once again much thanks to all of you who took the time to chime in and give me a nudge to reevaluate my existing program(s).