Java Problem?

[joe002]

I'm running under Windows 7 Pro with Java 8 Update 66.

 

I have two ISY-994I/IR-PROs that will be used at two different locations, however from time to time I would like to physically work on them to a single computer.

 

I have them both statically set to the same IP address - which works fine as long as I don't plug them in the same network at the same time.

 

To get Java to work I had to enter my static IP address into the Exception Site List.

 

So far so good.

 

The problem is that when I plug one device into the network and enter my static IP address everything comes up fine, but when I remove it and plug in the other device and enter my static IP address and click on Admin Console I get the following (Java?) error: "The provided UUID Does Not Match ISY's uuid..." THe Administrative Console does come up, but it doesn't work.

 

If I start it from the "My ISY" button it works fine, however I don't always have an Internet connection so I can't get to the site.

 

Any suggestions how to get things to work where I don't have a connection to the Internet?

[Teken]

I'm running under Windows 7 Pro with Java 8 Update 66.

 

I have two ISY-994I/IR-PROs that will be used at two different locations, however from time to time I would like to physically work on them to a single computer.

 

I have them both statically set to the same IP address - which works fine as long as I don't plug them in the same network at the same time.

 

To get Java to work I had to enter my static IP address into the Exception Site List.

 

So far so good.

 

The problem is that when I plug one device into the network and enter my static IP address everything comes up fine, but when I remove it and plug in the other device and enter my static IP address and click on Admin Console I get the following (Java?) error: "The provided UUID Does Not Match ISY's uuid..." THe Administrative Console does come up, but it doesn't work.

 

If I start it from the "My ISY" button it works fine, however I don't always have an Internet connection so I can't get to the site.

 

Any suggestions how to get things to work where I don't have a connection to the Internet?

 

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense at all from a networking or from a practical use case. Assign the other 994 a different IP address problem solved.

 

You're causing yourself more headaches for no apparent reason?!!

 

Given the fact this other unit will be somewhere else why even bother having two units with the same IP address? Also, if you assign two different IP address you can have both connected and available on the same network.

 

I would think that would make more sense and remove any sort of technical issues which you're causing yourself. 

[paulbates]

Joe-

 

I agree with Teken that is an unusual way to do this and "against the grain" of how ISY's are managed. The UUID is the same as the Ethernet Mac address, which is also used to locate the ISY. The UUID is unique to a particular device and explains why you are seeing this behavior... ISY #2 has a different MAC address than ISY #1 and the ISY finder is confused.

 

I haven't tried this, but what will probably work is to create a separate entry in the ISY finder, after connecting ISY #2. Since I've never done this, I don't know that the finder will allow two entries for the same local IP address, and have no way to know how it will work. You would then pick the correct ISY off of the ISY finder on the PC.

 

Suggested alternative: If you are trying to keep 2 homogenous runtime network environments for the ISYs to run in, I would suggest using router assigned DHCP, and having the router assign the ip address to the ISY on each local network. The address could be the same ip when running them separately, but supply 2 different addresses where locally on the same LAN. That will give you the same ip address in each separate network.  

 

Network # 1 (Where #1 is always used, and #2 is sometimes used too)

ISY #1  192.168.0.10

ISY #2  192.168.0.11 (when its located together with #1)

 

Network #2

ISY #2 192.168.0.10 (when its on its own network)

 

Paul

[joe002]

Teken/Paul – thanks for the quick response! Let me explain some more…

 

I have two independent networks that use private addresses (192.168.x.x) with some devices duplicated (NAS, printers, firewalls, weather stations, etc.) on each network. Keeping the local address the same has made life a lot easier when managing/maintaining the two networks. With all of my other identical devices I can, if I need/want, switch the devices between networks. In other words I can pull my NAS from network 1 and 2 and swap them or just replace the one from network 1 with the one from network 2. All of these devices have a static address so they’ll just plug and play and I won’t have to look to find them with DHCP (I use DHCP for all of my removable devices) and the configuration of other devices on the LAN know where to look for them.

 

This is the first time I’ve run into a problem where the MAC address of the device is important enough that it won’t work easily.

 

I’m new with this device, so maybe I’m just starting it incorrectly? I just type the IP address in the browser window. Is that the correct way to start it (assuming that I don’t have an Internet connection)?

 

I don’t know the ISY Finder. Which screen/GUI is it?

 

When I type the IP address I always see a Blue screen that has the Universal Devices logo with a menu for Home/Settings/Help/Admin Console. When I select Admin Console I get a white screen with the Universal Devices logo – Please keep this window open! When it works the Administrative Console opens up. When it fails I see the same white background window, but the Administrative Console opens and I get the Error dialog box.

 

With some more experimenting I’ve found that if on the blue screen for the one that doesn’t work I press the “Install Admin Console (Internet)" button it comes up fine, but I’m not sure what that button does and does it work if I only have a local LAN that doesn’t have connection to the Internet?

 

[paulbates]

I don’t know the ISY Finder. Which screen/GUI is it?

 

Joe

 

If you download the admin java app to your computer, and run it locally,  the ISY finder starts automatically, its a smaller window that pops to the top. It uses UPNP to find your ISY, if you have that activated. 

 

If you go back to the page in Current Releases, Beta and Bugs for your particular release, there will be a link to download the admin console under step 4. a)

 

Paul

 

[Teken]

Teken/Paul – thanks for the quick response! Let me explain some more…

 

I have two independent networks that use private addresses (192.168.x.x) with some devices duplicated (NAS, printers, firewalls, weather stations, etc.) on each network. Keeping the local address the same has made life a lot easier when managing/maintaining the two networks. With all of my other identical devices I can, if I need/want, switch the devices between networks. In other words I can pull my NAS from network 1 and 2 and swap them or just replace the one from network 1 with the one from network 2. All of these devices have a static address so they’ll just plug and play and I won’t have to look to find them with DHCP (I use DHCP for all of my removable devices) and the configuration of other devices on the LAN know where to look for them.

 

This is the first time I’ve run into a problem where the MAC address of the device is important enough that it won’t work easily.

 

I’m new with this device, so maybe I’m just starting it incorrectly? I just type the IP address in the browser window. Is that the correct way to start it (assuming that I don’t have an Internet connection)?

 

I don’t know the ISY Finder. Which screen/GUI is it?

 

When I type the IP address I always see a Blue screen that has the Universal Devices logo with a menu for Home/Settings/Help/Admin Console. When I select Admin Console I get a white screen with the Universal Devices logo – Please keep this window open! When it works the Administrative Console opens up. When it fails I see the same white background window, but the Administrative Console opens and I get the Error dialog box.

 

With some more experimenting I’ve found that if on the blue screen for the one that doesn’t work I press the “Install Admin Console (Internet)" button it comes up fine, but I’m not sure what that button does and does it work if I only have a local LAN that doesn’t have connection to the Internet?

 

 

I track what you're saying and your over all intent but from a IT perspective its first rule you don't break. Best practices state each and every device must have either a unique IP (static) address or be reserved via MAC reservation / filtering. This avoids duplicate IP conflicts and reduces networking conflicts.

 

There are many older / newer network based appliances that have transitioned to using software instead of embedded burnt EPROM / BIOS chips which allow them to change the MAC address / device ID's.

 

This sort of deployment is a complete cluster f^ck waiting to happen . . .

 

As they allow critical identifiers to be over ridden or corrupted which can lead to endless IT Support calls and is near impossible to identify until someone does an audit to determine the root cause.

 

You don't have to ask me how I know this either!

 

On Topic: Ideally you should be segmenting your network on to another subnet. This would allow you to have similar naming conventions (IP's). The reality is if you have to swap things out on a consistent basis in your network you have bigger problems to address than a IP conflict.

 

Ultimately, any secondary back up unit should simply be left in DHCP mode and when its connected. You would have reserved the MAC address so its going to be issued a known IP address. Once documented on the wall, chart, what ever there isn't a need to worry about future IP conflicts or where an appliance will go boom.

[DennisC]

Joe,

 

I also have two ISY's at two different locations. I can manage them both from either location and I also have the ISY's set to the same IP addresses. I do this so I only need to remember 1 IP address.

 

In the ISY Finder I have one local address and one DDNS address. This enables me to connect to either ISY by selecting either the local IP address or the DDNS address.

 

Dennis

[mwester]

Teken/Paul – thanks for the quick response! Let me explain some more…

 

I have two independent networks that use private addresses (192.168.x.x) with some devices duplicated (NAS, printers, firewalls, weather stations, etc.) on each network. Keeping the local address the same has made life a lot easier when managing/maintaining the two networks. ...

 

Oh dear - don't do this!  While it *seems* to be making life easier for yourself, the fact that it works as well as it does for you is due only to good fortune and luck -- neither ethernet nor the TCP/IP protocol is designed to handle this.  And, as you've observed with the ISY, any devices that enforce uniqueness (which is usually associated with security) will have problems with this.

 

The right way to have solved this is the use of DNS entries (aliases), so that the hostname (for example) "weatherstation" will resolve to a different IP address on each network.  This is how most networks that permit "generic" names operate -- for example, for one of my previous employers, each field office could assume that "hp" was the local printer, but the IT admin knew that each printer had a unique IP address, which allowed him to easily connect to the printer that was in Detroit versus the printer that was in Chicago.

 

I realize that you may not have plans to ever have your networks interconnected, but nevertheless if you have a computer that might live on both networks, it's still better to follow the de-facto standards for networking and use DNS names instead of duplicate IPs.

[joe002]

Paul – I just downloaded admin.jnlp and yeah, it works for both of my boxes. Does it use the Internet to work? I tried the shortcut that you can create using the “Install Admin Console (Internet), and looking at the shortcut it requires access the Internet to work properly.

 

Teken – I know what you’re saying, but think of my setup of as two totally independent LANs that doesn’t cause the issues you see, plus I only give the exact same two devices the exact same static private address (because I don’t want to get confused). Also, my two LANs are in two physically different physical locations and (when available) only accessible via the Internet. Think of it this way – I have one LAN connected to the Internet via one ISP and another LAN hundreds of miles away connected to the Internet via a different (not very reliable) ISP. Maybe I’ll connect the two LANs together via a tunnel on the Internet, but with my firewall/router we’re not routing private addresses. It’s more likely that I’ll pick up the device from the un-reliable Internet connection and bring it to the reliable connection to work on it.

 

Dennis – OK, I see what you are doing? Do you ever physically bring one device to the other location and try to work on it?

 

mwester – I know what you mean about using a DNS server. I’m currently using a hosts table that works at both locations – the old fashioned way to setup a simple LAN that uses names without the need for a DNS server.

 

 

Maybe a simpler question – assuming I have an ISY994i setup and it works great. Unfortunately I drop a brick on it and have to buy a new one. When I install the new one I get the error I’m seeing. Since my old box is now gone, how do I get rid of the error with my new device?

[stusviews]

At the location with the "replaced" ISY, bring up the ISY Finder (see post #5), select add and add the full IP address.

[paulbates]

Paul – I just downloaded admin.jnlp and yeah, it works for both of my boxes. Does it use the Internet to work? I tried the shortcut that you can create using the “Install Admin Console (Internet), and looking at the shortcut it requires access the Internet to work properly.

Joe

If you use 4a or b from the directions, its a one time download of the admin.jnlp java executable to your computer. After it installs, it will add a blue admin icon with a globe and a house. That java app is then on your local system.

 

Normal networking applies. If you put a local NAT address in the isy finder, no it won't go to the internet. If you use a NAT address`and your ISY is across the internet, it will.

 

If you look at the ISY Portal, that may be a product that can help you securely, as well as not having to move the ISY to modify it or use a VPN.

 

 

 

Paul

[DennisC]

 

Dennis – OK, I see what you are doing? Do you ever physically bring one device to the other location and try to work on it?

 

Physically pick up the boxes and transport them - no there is no need. I can access them on site or remotely. I wouldn't take them out of service to move them.

 

DC

[joe002]

This board is great – thanks for all of the feedback, advice and help. I’m a member of a number of different boards for different products and the feedback from this one is really great!

 

I now have admin,jnlp (no globe and house) on my desktop and it brings up the ISY Finder and Admin Console for both of my boxes.

 

I also have a ISY884 Administrative Console shortcut on my desktop (has a globe and house) and it brings up the ISY Finder and works for both boxes.

 

I can type MyLocalIpAddress/admin in my browser with one box and it works (the ISY Finder does not come up), and with the other box I still get the error.

 

Stusviews – when I see the ISY Finder I do see my IP address, but I can’t add a second MAC address to the same IP address.

 

Paul – I now have it on my desktop. I see that both admin.jnlp and the shortcut both reference universal-devices.com, but when unplug my Internet connection they still both work - it just takes about a minute for the admin console to come up (instead of just a few seconds when I do have the Internet connection).

 

Dennis – OK, just wondering if you ever saw the error I’m seeing when I access the box with its IP address

 

 

So when someone has to replace their box and they now have a new MAC address and they use a static address to reference their box and they don’t want to pick a new static IP address and they get the error I’m seeing, how do you fix it? Is there a buffer to clear? Any idea which app is complaining?

[Teken]

One method that has worked for me in the past is to clear the Java cache and select all three option box's. This will remove the Admin Console icon from the desktop so ensure its still listed in your downloads folder.

 

It should be noted this procedure always worked prior to the 4.X.X firmware releases but is a hit or miss now.

[joe002]

Teken – thanks for the suggestion. I cleared my cache (selected all 3 options), and it still remembers my “original” box. In other words, MyLocalIpAddress/admin works with the “original” box, but fails with the “new” box.

 

I searched the registry for the MAC address – no luck.

 

I would think that some Java thing is remembering the MAC address, but I’m not sure how to track it down.

[paulbates]

Joe

 

Per post #3, one recommendation was to try and create a second entry in the ISY Finder. 

- Start the admin console but cancel instead of logging in

- Click on the ISY finder to bring it to the foreground

- Shut down ISY #1, leave the ISY finder running

- Attach ISY #2 to the network and start it

- Use the finder to Add a new ISY: HTTP://ISY

- Connect and login to it

 

Paul

[joe002]

Paul – OK I didn’t try that dance (I only tried to add an entry and it wouldn’t let me make a duplicate entry manually) I just tried it and, yeah, I can get two entries in the ISY Finder but now the admin console shortcut doesn't work for both boxes. When it fails the ISY finder comes up but not the admin console. To get it to work correctly I have to delete the extra entry. :S

 

[paulbates]

Joe-

 

Yeh wasn't sure. Like DennisC, I've had 2 addresses in mine before for the same ISY... one for when locally connected via LAN, and one for external WAN connection through port redirection. I got rid of the external address and port redirection when I started using the portal. Wasn't sure if the finder would get confused by the same IP with 2 MACs

 

Paul

[joe002]

Paul - yeah, I think it got indigestion.

 

I guess the ISY Finder is what's remembering the MAC address?

[paulbates]

Joe-

Since the UUID is the MAC, probably yes. Not sure how the ISY uses either or MAC and IP for hailing vs communicating. Decisions about these two fields is usually left to the router, and router functions like DHCP, CTF and L2 forwarding.

 

To DennisC's other point, keep both ISYs in their working locations and have 2 entries in the finder; use the local LAN NAT IP for ISY #1, and the fully qualified DNS name and port for ISY#2 and access in place from location #1. Your slowest uplink speed on either side will be the constraint.

 

Paul

[joe002]

Paul – I’m not sure about the hard IP/MAC addressing.

 

Yeah, I think I can set things up like Dennis, but I would like to be able to reset/clear which MAC address is the correct one for this computer.

 

I would think there’s a (simple) solution for users that purchased a unit, it failed, and they replaced it with a new one. The new one won’t work via the MyLocalIpAddress/client method until the old MAC address is reset. The Java cache clear idea seemed like a good idea, but it didn’t work. I’m not really sure where the MAC address is remembered and how it can be reset???

[paulbates]

Joe

I don't see this being a problem, as the dead ISY will be off of the network. I just deleted my ISY from the ISY finder and added it back in. If you had an ISY die,  delete it from the finder list and add the new one.

 

I recently swapped my router. My ISY is statically addressed, and it came back as static and everything worked once I added all of my other assigned devices in the DCHP mapping table.

 

Paul

Edited December 26, 2015 by paulbates

[joe002]

Paul - How do you delete it? When I start up using the admin console shortcut I only see the current box in the ISY Finder, and if I try to delete the current one it won't go away.

[paulbates]

Joe

Yes, sorry.. The finder will find any running ISYs, and that's  finder doing its job(with unique IP addresses, we recently learned in this thread).

 

And that's also what would show up if you plugged in a new ISY. You can add and delete additional references to the ISY, but the finder will display what it finds on the network.

 

The ISY swap is not an issue.

 

Paul

[joe002]

Yeah, the ISY Finder always sees the box/MAC address that I have connected, but something (not the Finder?) remembers the old MAC address when I try to start things using MyLocalIpAddress/admin. I do notice that the ISY Finder window does not pop up when I use MyLocalIpAddress/admin (even with it works) so I'm guessing that maybe it's the admin console app that's popping up the error dialog box???

 

As a side note. The error dialog box is now showing both MAC address. The 2nd address in the dialog box is the one that doesn't work with MyLocalIpAddress/admin.