oskrypuch Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Haven't been here in a while, guess things have been running smoothly. I have a 994i, running 4.3.26, and maybe 60 different devices incl. keypads, switches, relays, motions and thermostats, and a rich and complex programming structure. I posted some parts of it as samples and examples here. I have a number of keypads some are used strictly for ISY generated scenes to control lights, but most are used as mini-control centers to trigger programs, like opening the curtains, or telling the furnace to up the temp for a hour, that sort of thing. They also display information, like the garage door is open. Overnight all of my keypads have lost several aspects of their functioning, although the rest of the functions still work ... ISY generated device scenes still work ISY can address and change the status of each key (ON/off) However, ISY can no longer dim/brighten the keypads ISY can no longer beep the keypads And what is the biggest issue ... Pressing the keys on the keypad no longer generates an event that the ISY can see and act on, knocking out a good portion of house control. From the ISY java panel, you can otherwise trigger the respective programs that the keys would start up, and they work fine, in fact this is what I'm having to do now to get certain things to happen. Viewing the devices from the ISY panel, pushing the keys manually results in no changes to the status of the device, or to the scene that the key is linked to (if any). Not surprising, as the respective programs are not triggered either. In addition, all four motions will no longer generate an event on motion. They flash, but not once or twice, but many sequencial flashes. Batteries all checked. I have four wireless water sensors. They also stopped communicating with the ISY. I have a monitor program (as described here) that looks for the once daily heartbeat on these devices, and it disappeared for several days. I have tried factory reseting and ISY refreshing the keypads and motions. Some of the keypads are the newer dual mode type, so I tried pulling some of the wireless nodes thinking there might be a bad one somehow causing an issue. I tried rebooting the ISY. I tried pulling the power on all the keypads, to see if the motions would start working, they didn't. I even tried jiggling the cords. I have one sick system. Is a multiple unit hardware failure really possible? Seems much more likely that there is some sort of software scrambling. I did a lot of x10 work years ago, and was experienced at tracking down troubles with line monitors, but I'm not really up on the more complex structure of insteon comm ... So, where do I start to fix this. Thanks for anyone's help. * Orest Link to comment
stusviews Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 It's possible that your PLM has aged to the point where it's no longer reliable, usually at about two years of use. What is the age and version of you PLM. BTW, there's a 4-digt number on a white label on the back of the PLM that will give the week and year it was produced. Link to comment
oskrypuch Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 It's possible that your PLM has aged to the point where it's no longer reliable, usually at about two years of use. What is the age and version of you PLM. BTW, there's a 4-digt number on a white label on the back of the PLM that will give the week and year it was produced. 2413S v1.3 1329 -- is that the 29th wk of 2013? I'm thinking that might be beyond the usual witching time then. My previous one is sitting on the stud above it, that one was from 2009. Is the 2413U just the dual mode equivalent, and compatible with the ISY? EVen if compatible, is the 2413S preferred? Both are available at the same price, locally. * Orest Link to comment
Brian H Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 In the diagnostics tests. How many links are in the PLM? Very few or none is a sign the PLM is going bad. Is the LED on the PLM on at about a normal level? I would suspect a v1.3 1329 maybe starting to fail. Link to comment
oskrypuch Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 LED is about normal. Hmm, but, there are only 28 links, that surely can't be right. So, 2413U or 2413S? * Orest Link to comment
Brian H Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Has to be a 2413S. As the communications between the ISY994i controller and the PLM is serial. The 2413U is a USB type. You may want to see if a Restore PLM will temporarily fix things. I agree 28 links is way too small. Link to comment
Techman Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 You need the 2413S. the U version is USB. The power supplies in the PLM with your date code have a history of failing after about 2 years. Your unit was built the 29th week of 2013. The current PLM's have improved power supplies and updated firmware You can try a restore modem which may buy you some time but you really should replace the unit. Link to comment
Teken Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 You need the 2413S. the U version is USB. The power supplies in the PLM with your date code have a history of failing after about 2 years. Your unit was built the 29th week of 2013. The current PLM's have improved power supplies and updated firmware You can try a restore modem which may buy you some time but you really should replace the unit. Apparently having a 2.XX PLM doesn't seem to be offering many people long term use or reliability: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/17734-i-think-my-new-plm-is-dead-please-help/ What a pity . . . Link to comment
stusviews Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Tip: search Amazon for the PLM Link to comment
oskrypuch Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 2413S is ordered. Should I order two, just in case (discussions re availability of chips) ? * Orest Link to comment
stusviews Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I have two spares, a Version 1 that hasn't yet failed and a spare Version 2 Link to comment
Teken Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 No offense to anyone but it's pretty sad when you need to have a few spares of something because a product is simply not reliable. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent Link to comment
mwester Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 No offense to anyone but it's pretty sad when you need to have a few spares of something because a product is simply not reliable. ...I have more spare Insteon devices than I have spare light bulbs. But in this case, I'd NOT keep a spare PLM on hand, for the same reason that I don't keep spares of the 100W Cree LED bulbs -- I am in fear of a significant product update leaving me holding onto an unused device that I'd be tossing out... Link to comment
stusviews Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 The same can be said of your, "more spare Insteon devices than I have spare light bulbs." I still had some unused single-band devices when dual-band was introduced. But, I can wait longer to get one or two devices than I can when the PLM fails Link to comment
mwester Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 True enough, I expect I'll end up with some Insteon devices that are a bit back-rev. But unlike the PLM, I don't anticipate any significant, material modifications by SmartLabs/SmartHome. The issue with the PLM is the combination of the not-yet-solved "All-On" problem, the general distrust that the "dead-after-14-months" issue is really fixed, and the unreleased-but-discussed UDI PLM -- any one of those is significant, but together they make the purchase of a spare 2413S PLM just not something I can recommend. If mine fails -- and that'll happen soon, since I'm coming up on the 2 year mark -- I've got a set of capacitors handy, and I'm just going to be hopeful that I can get a replacement quickly. Link to comment
Teken Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I'm more distressed to read that at least two people have indicated the latest 2.XX hardware based 2413S PLM's have died well under 12 months. I really can't believe these devices after seven years hasn't been thoroughly designed, tested, and validated to operate with a MTBF were it exceeds a minimum of ten years?!?! You could be forgiven if this was your first go at it like some random Kick Starter project. But this isn't a KS campaign and Smartlabs has been around for a long time and has the resources to make it happen. Its clear to me they simply don't want to . . . It amazes me this company allows *big mouths* like me to continue throwing them under the bus so easily. You would think they would be saying to themselves. *Hey this big mouth is making us look bad and its starting to impact our growth, sales, and future. Maybe we should sit down and redesign this 2413S PLM where the parts are all top quality and over rated to outlast this big mouth* I just have to shake my head this conversation hasn't taken place . . . Link to comment
oskrypuch Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 Thanks everyone for your help, modem is ordered, should be here Tuesday/Wednesday. Will report back, expect that will fix it all up. * Orest Link to comment
stusviews Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I really can't believe these devices after seven years hasn't been thoroughly designed, tested, and validated to operate with a MTBF were it exceeds a minimum of ten years?!?! Somebody actually makes an electronic device that's meant to last ten or more years (on the average)? And here I am thinking that the Y2K problem eliminated any possibility of that ever happening again Link to comment
larryllix Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I'm more distressed to read that at least two people have indicated the latest 2.XX hardware based 2413S PLM's have died well under 12 months. I really can't believe these devices after seven years hasn't been thoroughly designed, tested, and validated to operate with a MTBF were it exceeds a minimum of ten years?!?! You could be forgiven if this was your first go at it like some random Kick Starter project. But this isn't a KS campaign and Smartlabs has been around for a long time and has the resources to make it happen. Its clear to me they simply don't want to . . . It amazes me this company allows *big mouths* like me to continue throwing them under the bus so easily. You would think they would be saying to themselves. I just have to shake my head this conversation hasn't taken place . . . They have knowingly put out so much crap for so long now and with the HA boom going on without them? If I was SmartyHome I would be shaking in my boots and starting to sell other brands and lines of equipment. Oh wait! They already have.... They have one supporting control intelligence company that wants to support them and what do they do? Not allow them to promote their products by refusing them any rights to their technology but get in bed with other companies to support a cloud based logic home controller. I guess in this day and age of CPU's in every toaster and walwart they don't want another one in a HA controller! The extra $0.30 cost would cut into their intelligence. (sarc) When will they learn Mandarin so they can understand what is being designed for them? Link to comment
apnar Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 2413S is ordered. Should I order two, just in case (discussions re availability of chips) ? * Orest Instead of ordering two you can find a thread on here about fixing the old one. Swapping a few caps should get the old one working again so you have it as a backup. Edit: thread: http://forum.universal-devices.com/index.php?/topic/13866-Repair-of-2413S-PLM-When-the-Power-Supply-Fails Link to comment
oskrypuch Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 I noticed that thread, I may well do that on the old one (actually have the previous one too), at my leisure once I get the new one installed. * Orest Link to comment
oskrypuch Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 Well, replacement modem arrived, installed as per proper routine, all FIXED. NIce to have things back to normal. * Orest Link to comment
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