Control devices on two different power meters?

[timbeevers]

My house is on one power meter. My barn, shop, and other outbuildings are on another power meter. How can I link them all in one system? The building nearest the house is only 100 feet away, but I've tried bridging the gap using dual band Insteon devices without luck. I do have cat5 network access in all buildings.

I thought maybe an Insteon hub on the second meter might let the ISY994i access it via network and then link to the switches and lights. But, no go.

 

Suggestions?

[elvisimprsntr]

I can't imagine being able to use a single insteon controller+PLM to control both. I would suspect the two meters are on different phases off the utility transformer, thus 120 degrees out of phase from each other. Even if they are on the same phase, the differences in inductance would shift the zero crossing of 60 hz signal, which insteon uses for timing of insteon messages. Not to mention the insteon signals will not couple back thru the utility transformer.

 

I believe there is a way to have two ISY controllers+PLMs, link them together using the network resources add on module, and REST commands between the two. I also think UDI is working to make this easier in v5 firmware path. I suggest searching the forum for similar questions and how those individuals solved their situation.

[smokegrub]

Have you tried an RF device to see if it can reliably communicate over that distance. I have a similar situation with two panels but the distance involved is less and I get my Insteon communications to that location with RF devices.

[Brian H]

Smartlabs has now officially said even three phase power should work with Insteon RF messages. Where the Zero Crossing is 120 degrees from each other. The distance you want to go, what is between the buildings and buildings construction may effect RF from working.

[paulbates]

Smartlabs has now officially said even three phase power should work with Insteon RF messages. Where the Zero Crossing is 120 degrees from each other. The distance you want to go, what is between the buildings and buildings construction may effect RF from working.

 

Good catch Brian, here is the announcement. I was wondering if a change had been made, it that it would only work on newer products, but that does not look like the case, any insteon device should work.

 

Tim: Here are some questions / things to do that are important based on the above posts

1) Any metal (walls, etc) between the devices in your initial testing?

2) Try this test. Can you take 2 RF devices outside, one on the house, one from the closest outbuilding. Put them on extension cords so that they in in sight of each other. Run the insteon phase bridging detection test. The manual for the dual band device will describe the test steps. What were the results of this test, do they show linking?

3) If test 3) works, then try putting a device in the outbuilding on the same circuit as the dual band device in the outbuilding and attempt control.

 

If 2) and 3) both have positive results, you have your answer, and will have to think about how to position 2 rf devices permanently so they can talk. You'll want to then test if the signal is making it between outbuildings, possibly repeating the steps above.

 

You may have to bridge the legs in the outbuildings to control all locations, depending how they are wired, so try a few outlets to see what happens. 

 

 

Paul

[timbeevers]

Thanks all, especially Elvis and Paul.  I will try the extension cord test.  

I really would like to see two ISY controllers talking to each other over the network. Then the system becomes truly extensible.

Tim

[Teken]

As a data point height is your friend in situations where distance is a factor. In one install a client had similar conditions as you and at the time there was no good method to connect the two locations.

 

All we did was install a power outlet at the top of the barn and installed a plugin dual band On-Off Relay Module. At the house his rear facing home had a light pole already present. All we did was install a Insteon bulb at the top of the 12 foot pole and for good measure plugged in another On-Off Relay module in a plastic weather approved enclosure.

 

The one thing the owner did which I don't recommend due to possible safety issues was he adjusted the antenna from the barn unit to protrude out of the plastic case.

 

I know for a fact this made a huge difference because it allowed the signal to be literally free air. The problem is its against code and looks a little odd.

 

Regardless, in his case its not a safety issue because its literally 45 feet in the air and its not like someone is going to scale the side of the building to touch the antenna!

 

Ha . . .

[jerlands]

I had thought the plan with the portal was to allow two or more ISY controllers to be connected with bi-directional control or has this been scrubbed?

 

 

Jon... 

[Teken]

I had thought the plan with the portal was to allow two or more ISY controllers to be connected with bi-directional control or has this been scrubbed?

 

 

Jon... 

 

I understand both methods one using the portal and the other via network resources is still on the road map. UDI indicated its being tested now and didn't want the systems to be impacted by unknown bugs.

[jerlands]

I think I'd develop for this and possibly use IFTTT to communicate events until fully implemented.

 

 

Jon..

[Teken]

I think I'd develop for this and possibly use IFTTT to communicate events until fully implemented.

 

 

Jon..

 

At some point in time the 4.XX branch will be retired when the 5.XX Beta has been shown to be at parity with respect to stability & performance.

 

Perhaps by years end the 5.XX branch will be the official firmware platform on the 994 Series Controller. Slow and steady progress has been seen in the Z-Wave area and multi-channel support is coming soon. With the advent of the UDI portal there should be a good balance between those who want native control vs cloud hosted control.

[MWareman]

 

 

With the advent of the UDI portal there should be a good balance between those who want native control vs cloud hosted control.

And this is going to be a fantastic selling point for UDI. The best of both worlds, and either is optional. Exactly how all HA products should be but so few companies get right.

[timbeevers]

I put a couple of dual band applianceLincs on extension cords and successfully connected from the house to the barn.

I have a short mast atop the barn that holds a Ubiquiti Nano, which works fantastic by the way providing wi fi to my whole property and a quarter mile down the road. I ran the extension cord up the mast and still had connectivity with the applianceLinc. Finally put the other applianceLinc in my attic and still had connectivity. So now I will run AC power up the mast and mount an outletLinc in a weatherproof box. I might make it look like a birdhouse to please my wife.

Thanks for your help.

Tim

[Guitartexan]

I'm wondering if you have zwave? I have to say that I have opted for 100% zwave in my case and I have maybe 70 feet through four walls with perfect communication.

Also, part of your problem may be if you have more than one utility transformer as there is no way for the power line signal to jump between isolated windings.

 

 

GT

[paulbates]

I put a couple of dual band applianceLincs on extension cords and successfully connected from the house to the barn.

I have a short mast atop the barn that holds a Ubiquiti Nano, which works fantastic by the way providing wi fi to my whole property and a quarter mile down the road. I ran the extension cord up the mast and still had connectivity with the applianceLinc. Finally put the other applianceLinc in my attic and still had connectivity. So now I will run AC power up the mast and mount an outletLinc in a weatherproof box. I might make it look like a birdhouse to please my wife.

Thanks for your help.

Tim

Nice, thanks for the follow up, TIm

[Teken]

As I said when distance is an issue height is your friend.

 

Glad it all worked out, as noted its not recommended to adjust the internal antenna so its exposed to the outside due to safety issues.

[Xathros]

I had thought the plan with the portal was to allow two or more ISY controllers to be connected with bi-directional control or has this been scrubbed?

 

 

Jon... 

I am currently using network resources and the portal to link my 2 ISY's.  I understand that the plan is to make this easier that what I have done but for the 8 or so items that I wanted linked between my home and office ISYs, it was not overly difficult to accomplish as is.  The portal made it super easy to work around the restrictions of my office fairway without needing to open ports and also eliminates the need to expose my home ISY to the internet.

 

Hope this helps.

 

-Xathros